Wednesday, 09 September 2009
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Modern Day Jesus: Is there a possibility?
I don't know why every once in a while, I always come straight back to the possibility of translating your usual Bible stories to modern day meanings. Not only that, but also trying to combine modern day use of science. Just today, I had the classic feeling of an epiphany: wander around, think of something random, dissect it, and use it as a way of understanding things.Right now, I had this cyclical thought of claiming that "Jesus is coming back". In this way, meaning a spirit would come down and fix everything like new. Then I remembered this controversial notice: He had a body just like us. The popular belief is that the body and your soul is separate. After all, another soul can enter another body, which brings me to the epiphany that no one wants to touch:
If it is possible that Jesus can come back, knowing that when you die, the soul and the body separates; is there a possibility that somewhere, Jesus might already BE back?
Now, the belief is also that in the eyes of religion, we are all God's sons and daughters. So, what stops us from being an example? After all, the situation is that he tried to help regular people, and once he proves naysayers wrong, he gains followers. Everyone else works hard to destroy him. They nailed him to the cross, despite how much good he has tried to do for the community.
Now, today, we have our leaders. Once they try to prove regular people wrong, they get some helpers, but nowadays, people are so full of vengeance that they will bring anyone down for their own personal amusement. The argument is that there is a possibility that Jesus' soul might be in anybody. It might be disguised. And just like him, there will be somebody who shuns him just for trying to do good or lead them TO good.
Isn't that what happens in Modern-Day situations today?
Do you think there is a possibility that Jesus' spirit could be in a person on Earth?
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- From: mynameisblueskye@xanga
- Name: Chris
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Comments (27)
no.
No, Jesus is in Heaven with The Father. When He returns He will be on a white horse comming in the clouds with tens of thousands of His saints: the second comming. It will be obvious to the entire world as He comes to save Israel from annihilation. He will then establish His kingdom and reign for a thousand years. When Jesus rose from the dead He was a whole person and God. When He ascended to Heaven he went there the same. He is alive. He came the first time as The Lamb of God. When He comes again it will be as The Lion of Judah.
However, the antichrist may be alive on earth today. When he rises to power he will be accepted as the messiah - the savior of the world. The problem is that he will be the enemy of good but will be so disguised he will be accepted. He will not be The Savior. He will be a counterfeit with eminence power as the end of the age takes place. There is only one Savior - He is Jesus Christ The Lord. Don't be deceived.
props. you didn't have any spelling or grammatical mistakes even though you are high.
@wizexel22@xanga - Sometimes, in order to survive this dry world, t takes abit of open imagination. That is how theories and every invention was born.
@designandart@xanga - So, you are saying Jesus did not jump into another body and anyone trying hard to be like or follow Jesus is an imitating sinner?
@mynameisblueskye@xanga - Yes, but how did you come up with a question like that?
@mynameisblueskye@xanga - Certainly, we can wander into all kinds of funny theories by being creative and imaginative, too. Just go and detach ourselves from the Scriptures. That is how heresies are born.
@designandart@xanga - Well, to answer wizezel's question, it isn't from smoking pot. But these days, when I think of the words "coming back", I start thinking of reincarnation, or a possibility of a second life. The other common belief is that when you die, you go back to earth again to learn.
So, what if there is a possibility that the Soul of Jesus or any soul, perhaps, is in someone's body (they reject famous attention, likes to help people, and all that Jesus entailed in the book), and they are getting a lot of crap for trying to go the right way, just like Jesus did? I'm not trying to compare, but just saying in this modern age, someone might have it the same way from time to time.
It happens to everyone, and someone possibly might be getting at least the same volume of treatment, be it a child, or a grand person.
You have to admit, the idea is possibly interesting.
@mynameisblueskye@xanga - You're not far from the truth. When we are born again we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of Jesus who comes to live in us.
@routergenie@xanga - Well, a friend of mine, who is probably a practicing missionary and a Christian told me Jesus did got by just by detaching himself from worldly beliefs and practices. (I read some parts of the New World Scriptures he gave me.)
@mynameisblueskye@xanga - "New World" sounds suspect to me. Another term for that is New Age. The new age movement will accept any religion as valid except christianity.
@designandart@xanga - We can save that discussion for another time. But New World is supposed to be a new English translation of the Holy Scriptures. That's what my friend (John is his name) told me.
@mynameisblueskye@xanga - "Sometimes, in order to survive this dry
world, t takes abit of open imagination. That is how theories and every
invention was born."
I have no idea what that means. What do you mean by dry world? Is it boring? Humorless? Not enough precipitation? And what's an "open imagination"? Being open-minded? Eating some shrooms? And to say whatever it is you're talking about is how EVERY theory and invention was born? Really?
I'm not trying to rain on your parade....but what you wrote is closer to nonsense than imaginative. I mean, I can wonder if Jesus already came back, and we are actually left behind on earth and hooked up to a spiritual "matrix" ... or maybe Jesus already has come back 7,901,875,434, 219 times.... and every 10,000 years is a "new cycle" with a new "adam" and "eve" and "Bible". We can all wonder about a thousand different scenarios....but it'd just be aimless thought that has no meaning whatsoever.
(btw, I've heard of "New World Scriptures" in reference to the Book of Mormon....that may be what you are reading.)
@mynameisblueskye@xanga - "Detaching himself from worldly beliefs and practices" sounds Gnostic to me. A Korean cult Good News Mission's founder Ock Soo Park preached that in order to believe in God, we need to destroy our thoughts.
New World Scriptures? That's the product of the Jehovah Witnesses and the Watchtower Society. Their headquarter is in Brooklyn, New York. Do you know who they are?
Here's what Jesus (the real one) had to say:
"At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." (Matthew 24:23-27).
So on the one hand, it's pretty dangerous to think of the "second coming" of Christ as some kind of spiritual Christ-presence or reincarnation--there have been (and still are) a lot of phony Christs trying to use Jesus' name to deceive people. When the real one comes back, we'll know it.
On the other hand, you're actually right in saying that there's nothing stopping Jesus from being spiritually present on earth today-- as He said himself,
"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." (Matthew 18:20)
The differences are a) This is not the "second coming" properly called; that will happen at the end of the world, and b) Jesus' spiritual presence does not make someone else into "the Christ." He's still the only one.
it's definitely an interesting idea. the last time Jesus was on Earth, he didn't start his ministry until he was 30. there's no reason to believe it won't be the same way the next time (unless you take Revelations literally, i suppose... but i know very few Christians who do). i wonder how growing up in modern times would affect his preaching methods, target crowds, language, etc. he'd be better off making a blog and posting sermons on Youtube.
"...knowing that when you die, the soul and the body separates..."
Here's the problem with this theory. Jesus did die, and after he died, he resurrected bodily. (He even demonstrated the physicality of his resurrection by eating things and inviting people to touch him.) When he then ascended into heaven, he ascended bodily--so Jesus' soul and body are not currently separated. When St. John saw Jesus in heaven during his vision, he saw Jesus with scars on his hands--that's a physical symptom, souls can't have scars.
After Jesus ascended, the angels that said Jesus would come again, said he would return in the same manner that he left. That is, bodily.
So assuming the accuracy of the early church's record, a) Jesus' soul could not be in someone else alive today because it is not separated from his body, and b) Jesus' return is supposed to be a bodily return, not a soul-only return. So he won't be born as a baby again and grow up again; he'll be returning "in the manner that he left."
By the way, I'd be wary of the "New World Scriptures" if I were you (at least if it's the same one I know by that name). It's known for introducing a lot of alterations that aren't in the original languages to make the Bible appear to fit with a certain group's unorthodox beliefs about Jesus. Here's a link.
What @Pass_the_Aura@xanga said --- I was going to quote Matthew 24 but he beat me to it.
A more productive line of thought (than reincarnation) would be to delve into what Jesus meant when he said that we are his Body and will do "greater works than these" and that he would send the Comforter to lead us into all truth. These are the ways Christ is here now, and in us.
And @ChrisRusso@xanga is correct also as to the manner of Jesus' return.
@routergenie@xanga - I'm aware of who the Jehovah's Witnesses are, unfortunately. (snickers)
@mynameisblueskye@xanga - Oops. GET by. Sorry, that's bad english. :-\
@wizexel22@xanga - Dry World: cynical, paranoid, robotic, and two shades from seeming dystopic, or so seems from the news.
imagination: stepping out of reality and living in your own world, as some would describe it. Perhaps, "open" didn't need to be there, but...I'm sure you understand that better. And the inventions thing was just me saying that sometimes it takes thinking outside the box to improve the world, or not to go crazy in it. Sorry for the confusion.
Jesus said His Spirit would be on earth, and that those who are His would be grafted into Him. In this sense, yes, Jesus has never left the earth. However, in another sense, Jesus said He was leaving the earth so His Spirit could come here. To go along with that it is also written in the apocolyptic writings that Jesus will have a triumphal return as a Conquering King during the End Times.
Also, Jesus did return after the resurrection with a new body, one that appears to be permanent, not like an earth suit, a real cool body that can walk through walls and still eat and digest food.
So, yes, His Spirit is here in many bodies, but no, He is not Himself embodied in anyone else's body in the sense you were making out as possible.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - I do, and I don't see why not. It's simple and straight-forward. Just trust the Bible, and doubt the doubters, and you're on strong ground.
Here's a neat way to think about literal interpretation:
Is Jesus God?
Yes.
Did he say (insert bibical Jesus Quote here)?
Yes.
Does God lie?
No.
Does what God Jesus said HAVE to come to pass, based on previous experience, such as verbal Creation, Old Testament prophecies, and New Testament prophecies, healings, and exorcisms?
Yes.
Does the above indicate that we should BOTH literally and figuratively believe EVERY word Jesus spoke?
YES!!!!
(This means that I believe that EVERY parable was a true-life story that either had happened, or would later come to pass LITERALLY!)
Fence sitters get left out of the mix: be either hot or cold, because you are lukewarm, I will spue you out of my mouth. ( do you see the only weak link in my arguement? It's this last line. Jesus WAS speaking figuratively here. HA!)
@togodsownglory@xanga - meh, go for it if it makes you happy. but i see Revelations as more of a commentary of contemporary events, not future ones.
@togodsownglory@xanga -
"This means that I believe that EVERY
parable was a true-life story that either had happened, or would later
come to pass LITERALLY!"
False. Learn more about Jewish Culture of that time. (www.followtherabbi.com is a great resource)
@sheepthatsblack@xanga - I was not talking about the culture When and Where Jesus lived. Jesus would be himself, even amongst the Nazis - either as a Jew, or if it were possible, living as Hitler's own son. Jesus would be Jesus, and would LIVE the same type of life.
There is NO falsehood in Jesus. Not ONE white lie. Not ONE prevarication.
Why? Because he is God as well as man, and therefore his character is one of ultimate truth.
Why? Because he is God the Creator, whose VERY LEAST WORD becomes reality. Do you know WHY unbelievers prefer the word COSMOS to UNIVERSE? It's because the very word UNIVERSE implies this truth: UNI = one + VERSE = word ... ONE WORD. That's how everything in existance came to be: God spoke, and it became. The few times when God spoke and it didn't come to pass, it was when God promised retribution, and the recipient repented (several evil kings' repentance after God's wrath is promised (Chron.), Jonah's city/nationwide proclaimation of destruction for Ninevah, etc.) OR it was a conditional word - do this and I will do that.
Otherwise, EVERY word, EVERY promise, down to the smallest section (jot and tittle, to quote Jesus in the King James Version) comes TRUE in ACTUALITY. There may be spiritualized items associated in the mean time, but EVERY prophecy and EVERY dream God sent came TRUE in REAL LIFE.
Adam died, although it took 800 years for his body to catch up with his spiritual situation.
Babylon, a city that was that day's equivalent to New York, was razed to the ground, although it took thousands of years, and an unbelieving Roman general to finish it.
Tyre became flat, a place to dry nets - an isthmus in the ocean where none had been before.
The grandson of Nebuchadnezzer and the handwriting on the wall - completed in a single night.
The list is extensive. Not one word, not one prophecy, was slack in completion.
As to dreams:
Joseph. 'nough said.
Nebuchanezzar and his millenia-spanning dream of the nations. N. and his dream of his own fall, insanity, and return to sanity and power.
Visions:
(This is the most problematic for my stand, as the vision is sometimes not a literal picture of the reality it represents... such as Peter and the linen cloth and 'unclean' food - slay and eat... it may have been literal even, but the POINT was to accept the upcoming gentile application into the world of salvation and the church.)
Whereever you see words that approximate 'the word of the Lord', it comes to pass. Even the whole of Revelation is prefaced by 'will shortly come to pass'. Shortly being a relative term to an eternal God.
Why should the VERY WORDS of the only begotten Son of God, God himself, be any different? There is NO reason we should expect this. When God speaks, reality turns inside out to become what he says. That is part of the power that created the universe. That is part of the power on which hangs our salvation. What reason have you to say that this power goes this far, but no farther?
As for myself, I believe it all, and stand on solid ground, even to expecting God to keep his word in the smallest of details.
May you have delight in the word of the Lord, however much your faith and choice allows you to believe is true.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - About 4 sections up in my previous reply.
Revelation... those "things which must shortly come to pass."
Sorry for the misquote above. It didn't help me to accidently soften the wording from must to will, now did it?
What must Revelation be, then?
Things that MUST come to pass. Reality. The WHOLE THING! Not just short term in our view, but shortly in God's eternal view. Mere breath on the scale that creates stars and sees them die without a turning of the proverbial head.
Revelation is SURE. Often misunderstood, but SURE. There MUST be a completion of ALL the parts of revelation, down to the smallest section, or it is false from the very first sentence, and not worth spit. You can't have it both ways. Choose.
As for me and my house, we will...
trust the word of the Lord.
Completely.