Romans 14:18--19 (NASB) 'For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.'
Of course, these two verses make no sense without our reading verse 17 from yesterday, 'for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.'
Keep It Simple Saint (K.I.S.S) What should characterize our conduct?----pursue things which make for peace and building Believers up.
Since 1965, I have heard so much about what is wrong with the church. I have complained and criticized churches, Christians and pastors myself. That is not only not nice, it goes against the teaching of pursuing peace and building up others. Most critics will say that they have a duty to teach the truth and show where the church is wrong. Somehow in our minds we get the idea that we have the answers. This old man does not have any answers for the local church.
My job is to be a member and try to be a godly influence on it and others, while humbly accepting teaching and guidance in the areas of my life needing improvement.
I am so weak in this area of teaching. I really do complain too much about my church, and that is a sin.
Do you find yourself complaining about the Church too much?
Recommend
Comments (15)
Successful people do two things well:
1) They focus on what is good and make it grow.
2) They take what is bad and make fertilizer out of it so that what is good may grow even better.
while it is not wrong to make suggestion on how to improve something in church, or even to pin-point some bad phenomena in church so that we can correct or be rebuked, an attitude of criticizing for the sake of it is against the teaching of the bible. i agree that anything should be for the sake of the kingdom of God.
Complaint about the church? ....there aren't enough real Christians in them.
i really like my church
and the teachings are wise
i dont really have any complaints tbh :O
x
Good post. We must remember that when we demonize, or put down, people, organizations, etc., we also are glorifying ourselves, and putting ourselves up on a pedestal, and that is not good.
Before becoming a Christian I had been a homosexual. All I can say is you guys threw the first (verbal) stones at me!! That was nearly 20 years ago, and I've still got Christians throwing stones at me. When exactly do Christians get the right to tell their "fellow" Christians to, "stop pelting me with stones???" In over 20 years I've never returned to immoral behavior. Don't want complaints? Then work on the jerks so they'll practice what the Bible actually teaches.
Luther didn't nail the 95 Thesis to the church door, cause the church was doing a good job. Dude, you need to go rethink, and come up with something better than this!
Lonnie
@Such_Were_You@xanga - Lonnie, I think there's a difference between complaining and building others up. I believe Frank was trying to make that distinction w/ this post. Perhaps it's a matter of how we view the word complaining?
Complaining is self-centered because it's often centered on our opinions or getting our own way or bossing others around, and though some complainers may have some valid Scriptural concerns, the problem is that they carry the big stick of Scripture w/out love.
Building others up as Paul directs here is Christ-centered because it's centered on the truth of Scripture and always done in the Spirit of Christ: humbly, gently and with love (e.g.-2 Tim. 2:24-25). And it always seeks the best for the other person. Truth + love.
What Luther did may have been considered complaining to some, but his intent was the build up the church, not tear it down. Building others up certainly doesn't ignore the sin in the camp (such as the way you were/are treated and LGBT persons currently are treated in many congregations/denominations), but instead when we're rooted in right doctrine seeking right practice, we will look for a way to remedy the sin and weaknesses in the church based on Biblical foundations, speak the truth in love (as opposed to complaining, which is either speaking my own opinions, or else speaking God's truth w/ out love ) all so we might be equipped, working effectively, mature and functioning as God has intended.
I love I Cor. 16:13-14. God keeps hitting me with it since I know I tend to go over to the truth side too quickly and lack love. These two verses give us the beautiful balance of grace and truth we find in the Lord Jesus:
Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.
We must stand on the truth and we must point error, but as we do so we must always do it in love, with right motives, only for the intent of edifying, not tearing down. I know I've spoken without love and without right motives and that rarely or never bears fruit that will last.
In Him,
Karen
@nodnarbassoon@xanga - Not referring to this blog. Sometimes it is reactionary. Sometimes a person's reputation is put in the ground by gossipers who misinterpret everything, from behavior to dress to words spoken. In those cases, I think we're just trying to be seen for who we are, because too many people believe a lie.
@naphtali_deer@xanga - You make a very good argument! Thank you! But could you tell me who to see I can complain about all the rocks still being thrown?
Karen my point is that we need to discern between mere complaining and very serious problems which harm people. Luther was complaining, and yeah, he was loving, and selfless. Still no one was listening. All the leaders of the Catholic Church heard was Luther complaining. They didn't have hearts to listen because their own ears were blocked by self-serving, self-aggrandizing, desires.
It takes an open and loving heart to hear the real pain and need in many of our complaints.
As always appreciate you're thoughts on the matter. You're always informative, encouraging, and thought provoking.
Lonnie
@Such_Were_You@xanga - But could you tell me who to see I can complain about all the rocks still being thrown? Hear you!
Yes, there's a lot of stuff wrong w/ the church, serious problems which harm people, as you say. And as that's happening, the Gospel is obscured, the Church which is supposed to be shining has become very dark and God's name is given to reproach rather than being glorified and hallowed as it ought to be.
God keeps reminding me that it's a good thing for us to take those genuine concerns to God in prayer first. I tend to spout off too quickly and have paid dearly for it at times. Two fruits we are may see if we'd really seriously cover things in prayer:
1. We are likely to be at least a bit more Christ-like as we speak to and address those serious problems.
2. There is a possibility that by through our prayers God might look down upon us and have mercy on us and begin to open deaf ears to hear and soften hard hearts as to what Christ has to say to the Church. In and of ourselves, we can't open those ears or soften those hearts.
Thanks again for your challenging words here (when don't we get a challenge from you?
). I am always thankful to see brothers and sisters like you who have a passion for God and a desire for His Gospel to be practiced and not merely preached! We need of you in the Church, my brother.
Karen
P.S.- I've gotten to know Frank and his writing over the past few months, so I knew more of where he was coming from with this; in fact, I'd commented on this post when it first appeared on his blog. That's one frustration I have w/ blogging; when people read a single post, they see only a tiny snapshot, but not the full panorama of your writing.
@Such_Were_You@xanga - Hi Lonnie, how nice of you to visit and comment on this old man's post. It is so exciting to me to see such a wonderful discussion taking place about the subject--thinks I did not even think about. I moved 20 times in 40 years, Lonnie due to my career---and being overly ambitious. I saw many churches!!! Oh my, some were so sad--just missing the point, but we always found one church to attend and then find a place to help out. When we were in Grand Rapids, Mich. we became the Singles Ministry Coordinator. I discovered a young man who practiced the gay lifestyle for a number of years, and then somehow moved away from that. It was very difficult for him. He started off just being celibate, but it is tough as we learned. I had him give a presentation to the singles class, and they were so moved by this story. He really encouraged them to be very friendly to those they met who were involved in homosexual lifestyles. He sure discouraged any kind of verbal abuse. Of course, he shared some to the physical abuse he suffered. He shared the failings of many churches in this area. This class seemed to really respond to his sharing and I feel it impacted the class in the long run.
I am sorry for the mistreatment that you have received. I have seen divorced people shunned. Then there are the poor single gals who get pregnant out of wedlock. It is very tough for them many times, when the need love and help. They already feel bad enough.
I hope you are doing well now, Lonnie. God bless you for sharing.
Blessings
frank
I know of one (nameless) close relative who spent 9 years in my home church--it was one thing for this person to say a lot of people our age that attended were stuck up--and then for that person to turn around and not allow me to try to reach out to these people--HELLO???? Instead of getting on others for the lack of time you feel they're giving you--be the first one to give it yourself and see what happens--and stow the "mind games".
Not to single anyone out here, but I wonder how many people are weeping now that the church is being threatened from the outside when in better times all they did an awful lot more often than not was complain about their church.
There is nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion with the leadership or someone you don't agree with, but, it's not just what we say, it's is also, how we say it. We should be on the same team fighting the enemy and his attack against the Body of Christ. Your pastor is not perfect! He will probably tell you that. He needs support, ideas and people who will build him up in the Lord. It is easy to condemn when we only care about ourselves and what we want. Put your feelings aside and take time to get to know those so called people who are hypocrites. Guess what, they have most likely been rejected or looked down on in the past and are only repeating how they were treated. It's a vicious cycle! You can break that cycle and take down your wall first and allow people who are different to come in....they will in turn, take their wall down, too. Are you up to the challenge? It's easy to be a back seat driver.....
yes at times. for a while we didn't have an after church fellowship time and that really upset me. people were just leaving and the bond between memebers was weakened. i've caught myself though and have stopped
Whenever something happens that irritates me or throws up a red flag I have learned to take it to Abba first to get His instructions as to what He might have me do as His servant to Jesus' bride. He may have me do nothing. If the problem persists in irritating me, hopefully I will address my irritation with Him so that He can point out the log in my own eye. But sometimes He will have me speak to someone who is responsible for handling the situation.
Conflict resolution is one fo the Church's greatest weaknesses and, apparently, has been since the days of Martin Luther. Until the Biblical view of this is understood and taught well, churches will continue to have folk complain to the wrong people about issues they might have a part in exaserbating. A great book for illustrating conflict resolution (with reservations regarding kingdom theology) is The Peacemaker by Ken Sande.