Thursday, 27 August 2009
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Are You A Good Person: A Response To "Could Hitler Be in Heaven"?
This a a response to vanedave@xanga were he said, "A close friend of mine used to tell me this all of the time. He told me that he loves me so he felt compelled to let me know that my soul wasin peril.""He threw a Bible passage at me andsaid that Jesus is the only gateway to heaven. Living what we perceive to be a good life is meaningless if we are not saved. Then he said something that blew my mind. He told me the man who has lived his life full of sin, will make it to heaven before the righteous man if he is saved. That just doesn't seem right."
He then asked his friend,
"So let's say there is someone who is universally believed to be a good person. Mother Theresa for example. If she has not been saved she is going to hell?"
"Yes."
Well here is what I have to say on the heaven and hell topic:
What makes a person "good"? What makes a person "not good"? Who has the right to say "I'm (you're) a good or bad person? Who decides? The problem is we as mere humans are going by a standard we made. People don't send people to heaven or to hell. God does... let's look at The Ten Commandments, God's Law of Right and wrong. So lets say someone clams to be good. OK. Have you ever told a lie? Well what dose that make you?? A Lier. Have you ever stole something? What dose that make you? A Thief. Have you ever lusted after someone? Well Jesus says to lust after someone is to commit adultery with them in your heart. Have you ever used God's name in vain? Well that would make us a Lying Blaspheming Thief and an Adulterer at heart. I know I fit that title! It's easy to say "ok so your saying I have to be perfect"? We all know no one is. But that's just the point! God is a Holy and perfect God who can't stand a single hint of sin. That's why the Christian faith puts such a big deal on Jesus. The Bible says so in using bible verse in salvation (John 3:16) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son. God in the flesh almost 2,000 years ago to die in your place on the cross. Suffered the wrath of God that we deserve. Died and rose again and defeated death in our place. That's why you're friend was jumping all over you about "getting saved". Because in God's book no one is good but God himself. (Luk 18:19) We can't get to heaven by our "works". Say your in a court room and the judge finds you guilty. Then this man comes in the court room and pays your fine. And the judge let's you go free. There is no other religion in the world that can make us right with God. Every other religion is about "Us" doing something "our works".
What are your thoughts and opinions on this topic?
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- From: Liquid_Trails@xanga
- Name: Liquid Trails
- About Me: I am a Christian young man who grew up in the Christian faith my whole life... here you'll find random bloggings about life and my faith. While some may think i'm writing only what I've been taught. I don't clam to know everything! Though at times a wish I did... these are the random bloggings of a Christian passing through this world.
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Comments (24)
Me thinks some one is a Ray Comfort fan.....
Not that there is anything wrong with that
x
That's truth right there.
I see quite the Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron / Way of the Master influence in the author, which is definitely not a bad thing.
I would however add that it's due to our pride that we think we know what is right and wrong and we go by our standards rather than looking to God's standards and seeing what exactly He expects of us.
I wish we had more Revelife content that really shows the Gospel message.
Sadly, it's also truth in need of some serious spell check, and a little use of paragraphs wouldn't hurt.
WOTM ftw.
The OP is proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ as absolute truth. So instead of answering the question at the end (which I suspect Revelife added), I hope all who are reading this will answer the following questions:
Have you seen that no good thing dwells in you?
Do you understand that no matter how many good works you do they won't save you?
Do you see yourself as no different than Hitler, a sinner guilty and condemned n the eyes of God?
Do you understand there is only one way of salvation and it is through Jesus Christ?
If you receive Christ and believe on Him, God has promised to make you
His child and give you eternal life. You can never earn your way to
heaven by your good works, it is a gift given to all who believe on Christ.
Will you submit to and accept Christ's righteousness by faith and give up on your futile attempts at being perfect and good in your own efforts? I am praying His Holy Spirit might lead you to do so.
I can't stand Ray Comfort or Way of the Master...they breed some of the most insensitive hyper judgmental fanatics out there. But I agree with the post.
@wherever_we_go@xanga - True dat!
@subSacred@xanga - So you agree with what WOTM is saying but not how they say it?
@subSacred@xanga - but this post is the essence of Ray Comfort's methods.......using the 10 commandments/law to show us the need for the cross.
Is it his method you dislike?
@Boogalice@xanga - Well, I don't agree with everything they say, but one of my big hangs up is with how they say it. Actually, my biggest hang up is the groups of people I encounter in person who quote WOTM as if it is direct Word of God and Ray Comfort is the Pope, and sit around listing every commandment you break as you break it, doubting your salvation. Maybe they are just part of a special sect of followers, but that's been my experience and exposure to WOTM in everyday people, so I steer clear.
@subSacred@xanga - Ya, I gotcha. Unquestioning fealty to any organization is deadly. But that organization can't always help what their followers do, can they? It's not like they encourage it. And to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of their methods either. Sometimes it seems like it pushes people away quicker than it brings them closer to the Truth. But who knows? Mebbe some people do need to be hit in the head with the truth, to wake them up?
@wherever_we_go@xanga - Actually that is a Biblical way of exposing our need for a savior. But there are also many other Biblical approaches to the Gospel, and when you ignore those you get Ray Comfort, and that's what I'm not a fan of. I think its important understand that the message of Christ has the potential to be used and communicated in diverse ways. Even Jesus used different approaches for different folks.
I do think that the 10 commandments/law method is very appropriate for the subject of this post, but the impression I get from WOTM and Ray Comfort is that it is the only appropriate method ever.
IMHO i think WOTM is for those that are stubborn in believing that they dont need a God, for people who are stubborn.
i agree that it only works in certain situations. You have to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and how it is leading you.
I mean imagine using wotm right after a funeral. of course you're not gonna jump right in and go HEY ARE YOU A GOOD PERSON?..no you're gonna comfort the person, find a segway to transition the current situation into a spiritual conversation
alot of the people in america at least have heard the gospel once in their lifetime. they know about sin. They know about the things they are doing and they are not ashamed of it, or at least realy caught up in it. so when you ask them if they think they're a good person of course they're gonna say yes. they're using their own standards. THIS is where WOTM comes into play. The Law was to reveal that all have sinned.
DO NOT become a robot and just follow WOTM verbatim, mechanically. Be adaptable to the Holy Spirit cuz sometimes that doesnt cut it.
I usually use it when i open air in NY and NJ. but when i talk to people one on one, its a whole lot different
for me, it's not a matter of good works saving us. but i can't equate an all-loving deity with a deity who does not care about what we do, or puts more value into what we believe.
@subSacred@xanga - I agree. I am sorry if my question sounded pointed I went back to edit it a couple of times and I still don't think I got it right.
I would say that it is a biblical way given Romans talks about it.
But I would also agree it is not the only way. I for instance came to the Lord as the result of a dream. And I am sure many others here would share testimonies revealing other methods.
We need to be very careful in the BoC to listen to the Holy Spirit and use the words that we are given for whoever it is we are talking too rather than methodizing the gospel.
x
This is just something I like to read when I ask myself this question. Salvation... what is it... words? faith? trust? fear? In this parable I feel Jesus is pretty much saying if you love and care for people... my father will take care of you. Believing this is the only way I can hold onto any faith at all.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
I don't quite understand the "People don't send people to heaven or hell. God does ..." line. The main difference I think there will be in the two destinations is that either people humbly accepted Jesus' sacrifice for their sins, or they decided to go their own way and live a godless existence. If you think about it, an eternity stuck with God being sovereign over everything would be "hell" for some folks. Based on interviews I've heard with people like Ted Bundy (serial killer who got the death penalty) and David "Son of Sam" Berkowitz (still doing time and voluntarily rejected parole), they'll be in heaven. It's not about what you've done, but who you are (regenerated, or continuing as a rebellious sinner).
Once you are reborn, though, I'm not sure how you'd stop from doing good works, as an expression of thanks to God. James mentions how faith with no works is dead.
does worshiping a religion you believe is right, but turns out not right, will it send you to hell
what if christianity is wrong and buddism is right?
If you believe the Bible and its stories, and the person of Jesus as God incarnate, then by believeing that Jesus' death and resurrection is the pathway for you to have eternal life with God, you will reach that end.
There are many pathways to God. Even Jesus himself said "I have many sheep of which you know not".
What was Jesus trying to teach us by His earthly presence? The two new commandments. "Love the Lord you God with all your heart, mind and soul. Love your neighbor as yourself." If we do those two things, we get it right. The rest is window dressing.
You can't "earn" your way to heaven, that is plainly stated, yet faith without works is meaningless. These two seemingly contradictory statements are, in fact, harmonious. For when we understand the Love of God, and the sacrifice He made through His son Jesus, then our desire to imitate Him becomes natural; good works are a result of that. When we experience the Love of God, it makes us positive, giving, caring humans, who reach out to others to do good, comfort, love etc., Our "good works" are simply a pleasent by-product of having "God in us"
Yes, sin is sin. We categorize it, rationalize it, etc. God doesn't. In God's eyes, raping and dismembering a 3 year old is no more evil than swiping a pen at the bank drive thru. They both represent "sin" which means simply, "to miss the mark" or "less than perfection." Sadly, many words have different meanings than when they were used in the Bible. Even our English definitions have changed. "Perfection" often meant "completeness or fulfillment". "Virgin" often meant some Jewish girl, about ages 12-16, who was now marrying age, and was capable of reproducing. It really had nothing to do with whether her hymen was intact. "Sin" and "evil" are two completely seperate concepts. But many intermix the two.
There is a lot of confusion and debate over references to Hell, Gehenna, Hades, and other terms that man tried to use to define the various concepts of what happens to us when we "die" or exit our earthly bodies. Many believe there is some sort of underground "world of the living dead". Some believe there is a purgatory, where we exist and somehow pay off our "debt", or work to erase the sins that have marred our earthly life. Many believe that when we "die" we are asleep in the grave and "know not" until Resurrection Day, when we are brought forth out of the grave and made alive (aware) once again, and reunited with God and each other. There is Biblical basis for that theory. Apparently we will be given new bodies, not be male and female, not have marriage, etc (since we are now "one with God" that makes sense) And yet be able to recognize each other. It will be a fascinating time.
We are not told exactly what happens, given a specific timeline, etc. Even Jesus Himself said "only the Father knows the hour...". We are to have faith and trust in Him to love us, care for us, guide us. In the meantime, imitate Jesus. Be kind. Teach others. Pray. Study your Bible. Give to the poor. Heal those you can. Play with little kids. Stand against oppression and false teachers. Stand for what is right and good. Respect your parents and leaders. Give to God what is God's, and Caesar (your government or leader, boss, teacher, etc.) what is Caesar's. Be a good example and let your light shine.
That's what it really all boils down to, isn't it?
There is the view that because we are human we are somehow detached from God and no matter what we do or don't do, we need an intermediary to connect us to God. If God created everything including us we can't be disconnected. There is also a spiritual lack of responsibility we assume for ourselves, that someone else is going to do it for us, that someone being Jesus. It's like we're not in the game and the coach is telling us he's never going to send us into the game because we are incabable of playing. So we sit on the sideline and do whatever we do, believing that whatever we do within the confines of the Ten Commandments is justified because we've been saved.
People take a lot of liberty around the Ten Commandments. There are churches that preach killing is ok if it's in the name of God. Right there is a contradiction around which we stack layers upon layers of rationale both for and against killing. The truth is that as long as Jesus is the only one who is connected directly to God, he's the only one who knows the profound reason behind the words "Thou shalt not kill".
I once read an old story about a highly revered holy man whose reputation spread far and wide. As the story goes, one day word spread that he planned to visit a certain town by the sea. It was to be his first visit to this town and upon hearing the news the townspeople started to excitedly make all kinds of preparations to greet and honor him. When the holy man first arrived he didn't go directly to the town. Instead he went down to the beach. People heard he was there and headed to the beach but because this was a man of such reputation they feared approaching him and instead watched him from behind the dunes. They viewed him sitting on the beach gazing out at the ocean. Suddenly he arose from his seat and unaware he was being watched, he took a flask of drinking water out of the bag he carried with him. Wanting his water to stay cool he buried it in the sand. He then found a stick and stuck it into the sand where he had buried the jar in order that he would be able to find his water when he returned. He went to town and was greeted heartily. When his affairs there were finished he went back to the beach to fetch his water. What he found were hundreds of sticks in the sand just like the one one he had used to mark his water. The people, having observed this holy man put a stick in the sand, thought that it was a holy act and that by doing the same they would receive blessings from above.
Pardon the metaphor but I think of Jesus more as the Michael Jordan of spirtual life. I believe his goal was to show us by example that there is a true and pure way to live and that way comes from the spirit. He is like a coach showing us day and night how to take various shots, how to dribble and pass, how to play the game because he knows we can play. How frustrating must it be for Jesus to see us sitting on the sideline, discussing how he was and and is the only person who could ever play basketball and although we can't possibly pick up the ball and learn to shoot, we can win the game by simply wearing his team jersey. We argue back and forth about the rules of the game, never considering that we ourselves are meant to play. I believe Jesus was telling us, "Come on folks. Play. This is what life is about", but we sit on the sideline, missing altogether that he was trying to teach us how to play like him. It's easier for us to think ourselves incapable, or inherently evil in the game of spiritual life and as an effect our spiritual muscles atrophy. Remember when we were little and our thoughts were pure and we were certain that we spoke directly with God? As we grew up we unlearned that purity and now we place our deepest spiritual responsibility in someone elses hands. I believe each of us is born with a ball in our hands but we allow ourselves to be taught that we can't play. I believe Jesus was teaching us how to save ourselves. Someone takes a shot, misses, and their are all kinds of people standing around saying, "See. You can't play. Give the ball back to Jesus." I think Jesus has all the confidence in the world that not only can we play, but we have to.
why are you going to far back. Hilter is just one person, just things about what is in our own heart and mind on a daily basis.
Just remember God loves for us is unconditional. We are with him or not.
thanks for the comments
j
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You
wrote: “That's why the Christian faith puts such a big deal on Jesus. The
Bible says so in using bible verse in salvation (John 3:16)” I want to comment on this.
(le-havdil), How to live
in order to enable the Creator in His loving kindness to provide His kipur
–atonement- is outlined in Tan’’kh ; and was also taught by Ribi Yehoshua. The
first century Ribi Yehoshua from Nazareth (the Mashiakh; the Messiah) taught in
accordance with Tan’’kh the only way to get connection with the Creator, This
way is found both in Torah and in Ribi Yehoshuas teachings found in our website
– http://www.netzarim.co.il
Anders Branderud
@subSacred@xanga - What is Way of the Master?