Wednesday, 26 August 2009
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Big Bang vs. Literal Creation: A Different Perspective
I was in the shower the other day thinking about different things that interest me, mostly brought upon by my completion of the Ender's Game set of 4 main books written by Orson Scott Card. It wasn't a certain topic that got me thinking, but just the general idea of the nature of the universe in general. I began putting things together in my head, of the origins of the universe and how God fits into it, and then it hit me.However, first I would like to state that I believe nothing about the origin of the universe and I side neither with creation or evolution because none of these arguments lead people to heaven or to hell. It just complicates things and, most often, turns into a slug fest between the two parties.
Having a rather unbiased position, I began thinking of God's role in the creation of the universe. Literal, like in Genesis, or a "master domino" kind of thing? Based on my idea of the metaphysical nature of God, I now believe that God, with His omnipotent powers, would choose to light the spark of the universe at one specific moment. That spark creates the matter that creates the galaxies, most namely this one, which creates our star, which creates the accretion disk of matter that condenses into hundreds of planetoids that crash into each other and, after countless ages, the perfect cradle for God's children is formed.
Rather than creating everything by hand, God lays down the blueprints for the entire fate of the universe, beginning to end, and everything in between, which can ONLY come to be from the perfect jump start by a perfect God. Think of it- billions of years of seemingly random matter floating seemingly aimlessly throughout the universe. But none of it is aimless- every particle had a fate given to it beforehand by God, a fate that would allow Him to create the perfect cradle of life for His children.
Maybe this is just what I would do if I were God, but somehow this all just makes sense in my mind. Instead of crafting each thing by hand, which we more attribute to ancient Native American folk tales than to Christianity, God creates the very laws of nature and time himself, along with a fate for each particle in the galaxy to finally come together in us, the only sentient species on this planet and, as far as we know, in the universe. Only a perfect God could accomplish such a feat.
What do you guys think of this crazy idea? Have I finally gone off the deep end, or could there be some glimmer of truth behind this all?
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- From: harmonyminusmelody@xanga
- Name: Evan
- About Me: in reference to my username, i have been since acquainted with my melody and we shout to the heavens our concordant song of life and love. i am a lover, a God-fearer, a space enthusiast, an aerospace engineer in-training, a writer, a gamer. i am lazy, opinionated, overweight, overbearing, and full of myself, but honestly, WHO ISN'T?!? at least i can say i'm not full of YOURSELF.
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Comments (74)
heretic.
I believe in a literal 6 day creation and rest on the seventh day.
If you throw out what the Torah says in Genesis, how can you believe anything else the bible says?
If you take the beginning to just be a story then you might as well throw it all out.
As an atheist, that's an explanation I'm okay with.
It doesnt sound as far fetched as creating everything in 6 days. Especially when Genesis referred only to the Earth being made, not the universe.
that idea seems to spell D-E-T-E-R-M-I-N-I-S-M all over it. When you think about it, whether or not God is involved during creation or before creation doesn't make a difference if the end result is scripted.
@jupiter312@xanga - do you think most atheists would be deists if there were no religious influence in the world? that is, if we take out religion from a mind of an atheist, would he be open to theism/deism? i feel most atheists are repulsed toward specific religions than a creator of the universe.
It's not only Genesis that indicates that God actively created the universe. Proverbs has a beautiful section in chapter 8 where Wisdom is speaking, and presents an image of God as a craftsman, not just an architect:
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
Job 38 is similar in language, describing a God who is actively involved in creating and maintaining the world and the heavens.
Colossians 1 indicates that Jesus himself was the Creator, and that he actively sustains the universe:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Regardless of specifically how God chose to create, there's no biblical question that he did it actively rather than just flipping a switch, and that his involvement is ongoing and active.
Plenty of name-calling about to ensue.
@Roadkill_Spatula@xanga - Very nicely pointed out.
Not a new idea. I proposed it myself some 40 years ago. It still has merit, if you don't take the Bible literally.
That idea's been around for hundreds of years, and while it's a bright idea if you really don't see a way to match up science and taking Genesis literally (which I think is indeed possible) than I'm glad you're at least seeing God as great in orchestrating things. But there's not really room in the Hebrew of Genesis 1 to fit anything but a literal 7-day creation.
On the scientific front, it's way too much "explaining away" and trying to get your world-view to fit in with a scientific one (not unusual). On the religious front, it sounds a bit Calvanistic (everyone/everything has a pre-determined fate) and makes God seem more like a computer programmer than a God (I just wrote this awesome program called EARTH 1.0. Now lets run it and see what happens, even though I already know because, heh, I WROTE IT!).
All our "explanations" are like dots of ink trying to understand the art of painting.
I have had many debates about this.
While I was at college I came to the realization that what you believe about Creation doesn't define your faith. Therefore, I agree with a lot of what you say. My college teaches theistic evolution (though the "theistic" part doesn't pop up in class, just in personal conversation outside of the classroom). To be honest, when I decided to tolerate the billions of years stuff taught in astronomy, my jaw dropped. I felt a sense of awe for God that I had never felt with the 7-Day theory (note: I don't reject 7DT, I'm just open to other possibilities). Even through the Evolutionary lens I found it impossible to believe the universe is just a cosmic coincidence. I was relieved to find that science actually strengthened my faith.
In the end, though, we'll never truly know exactly how the universe was created. The problem with the "trust the whole Bible or none of it" theory is that it's extremely difficult sometimes to figure out what to take literally and what to take figuratively. For example, Revelations is obviously a figurative book. Literal dragons won't become our world leaders any time soon. However, why do we take that figuratively and talking snakes literally? I'm not criticizing people who do take it literally, I'm just saying that it's a dilemma.
I believe the Bible is infallible spiritually, but I also believe there are insignificant errors having to do with numbers (i.e. how much gold was in Solomon's temple), dates, etc. It may be God-breathed, but humans DID write (and translate) the Bible, meaning that there will inevitably be errors and biases.
Finally, I just want to say that I believe God had an active role in Creation (however it happened).
"They call it Big Bang, we call it Big God" - Mark Driscoll
My church spent about a year going through Genesis a few years ago. I thought the pastor had some very interesting views on creation. Not everything I agree with, but he does make some good, iteresting points. If you're interested, check out the sermon "Creation Days 1-5": http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/creation-days-1-5
...Just a suggestion. I'm not saying this is THE way to lok at it, but it is a little unconventional and makes sense (I'm putting it up for discussion). Basically my interpretation of what he believes (starting at 5min:30sec-ish) that the "6 days" are a literal 6 days, but it's more 6 days of preparation, as opposed to 6 days to create it ALL.... basically because "In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth"... he says that the "begining" was "at some point" (using some translation from hebrew text) , and "God created the heavens and the earth", meaning that he created it all at once (Big Bang style...kinda, not really).
Yeah, just an idea...
I believe in creation as written in the Bible. However, who's to say there wasn't a "big bang" when it all happened? I imagine that when God created things, it could have made a lot of noise!
That's a good theory, but I'm an atheist, so I believe in the big bang. Science over belief. You can believe wholeheartedly that the sky is green and the grass is blue, but they aren't.
You will never find "truth". Just scientific theories and beliefs based on faith. Maybe when you die Jesus will tell you how it happened. Or perhaps you will fall into darkness and never know the truth. Who knows.
Science clearly points to the truth of the Big-Bang theory. It remains a theory simply because there is no way to create an experiment to duplicate it or to prove it. But all evidence suggests that this is the truth.
Biblically, I don't understand why a person who reads the bible in all of it's entirety, could see the poetic nature that it takes on in a lot of areas and absolutely refuse to believe that the 7-days in Genesis could be more of an "order of events" rather than an actual timeline. It makes sense this way. We have no biblical record to show the age of the earth, or how long mankind has been on this earth. As a Christian, you cannot misuse the scripture. It is not a science textbook, it is a book that introduces the reader to God, and teaches the reader how to know God and learn to live how God wants you to live. It is a book of faith, not science. If you would leave it as such, you would see that science proves its truth. Look at the big-bang theory. It's proof that there was nothing and instantly everything was created and over time, the earth took shape, and over time, the sun was formed (let there be light), the moon was created, the stars, then plants and animals and then mankind. It all plays out according to scripture.
The only truth that matters is found in the text of the bible and it has nothing to do with the creation of the earth. It's that Jesus Christ died for our sins so that we could be redeemed and live a life with Him.
I can't believe in a literal six day creation myth because the first chapter and a half are Hebrew poetry. Not only that but it posits something that goes against God's natural order, mainly that he made the earth first and then created the sun and moon. Sorry but trying to make poetry into something more than it is silly.
p
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - that's a really interesting point. i think a lot of people are turned off by the idea of "religion" more than the concept of a "creator." but to answer the question you pose, no i wouldn't be a deist. i have no reason to believe a creator exists.
What you present is a beautiful presentation on what you think and what truth is to you.
Truth must be realized individually.
It must be realized by you; otherwise it is not your truth.
Only your Truth, not the truth, is expressed in your life,
not anyone else's.
How do you find your truth?
By seeking and finding the teacher within.
You see, the Teacher and the Truth within are one.
John Randolph Price
This is one thing that I do know is this: everyone on earth believes in something eternal by faith. It is either faith in eternal matter and energy or faith in eternal God.
It has been said before. Your idea is on the order of Theistic Evolution.
@Pashe@xanga - Question for you: How do you explain the literal seven day cycle we experience for the last 7 thousand yrs.?
Apologetics! This will be a good read! I'm printing it out though so I can spend time with it.
@tau_1@xanga - Um, mind if I ask what you mean by that?
Even if atheists and materialists who believe there's no spirituality whatsoever could make an absolutely self-consistent explanation of the origin of the universe then that would still only say how it physically might have been capable of happening, and not necessarily what happened.
Of course, they haven't.
All they ever do to try to disprove an exactly Biblical Creation of the cosmos, is ignore the cases and theories of Young Earth Biblical Creation scientists while insulting them as equal to others that they are in fact capable of refuting.
If you really want the best explanations for how life and the cosmos began then check out the Institution of Creation Research (ICR) or Answers in Genesis (AiG) which had a friendly break-off from ICR to better reach out to scientific laymen.