.... I don't get how its charity.

I think you've neglected some considerations that challenge whether it is a good thing or not. One is that given the proposal, people have much longer waits to see their doctors, increasing the likelihood that they won't be treated appropriately. That means that they might be hurt by the bill. Whether or not that is a big worry is actually besides the point. You simplify the situation and don't consider why people don't support it. The principle that we ought to help our neighbor is a Jesus thing to apply. But whether the healthcare proposal simply and neatly conforms to that principle (and doesn't, in any way, contradict it) is another question. You have to argue that the good it does outweighs its bad consequences to show that it's the Christian thing to do.

No! NO! NO!

Few things turn my stomach more than neofundamentalism, both conservative and liberal. The attempt to co-opt and control the God of the universe to our own ends shows an utter lack of respect for Him. The arguments for and against the differing approaches toward health care reform should be debated on their own merits. And God should be honored and served, not used like some giant stick to beat one's political opponents into submission.

Point of contention: Look, I'm all in favor of people giving to charities more, being generous without expecting reward, etc. But can you really equate that with taxation? Charity is a choice; taxes are not. Generosity comes from money you have; taxes come from money that never makes it to your paycheck. I don't think you can say they're the same thing.

If you leave me with money, I have a choice. I can choose to use my money to help others, or I can choose to use my money to help myself, or I can choose to waste it on something temporary--but whatever I do with it, it's my choice. If you take my money and spend it for me, you've taken my free will out of the equation. I could be a selfish jerk who would have wasted the money, or I could be a selfless person who would have spent the money on the poor anyway, but in either case the result is the same. When charity is automatic, a free-willed individual doesn't have the opportunity to be generous.

Health care does need to be reformed--and government regulated--but government ownership of healthcare does not necessarily follow.

We need to open our eyes and look deeper than surface view. What are the ramafications for this bill? Long term and short term? Just because you're ok now, does NOT mean that you will always be that way. The world is a volitile place, and like it or not drastic changes are coming. What we are doing now, blogging may come to an end. think I'n off my rocker, look at China, or Iran, or.... The government can take away your livelyhood at any time by putting you under the microscope of the IRS or any other givenment organization. Businesses dont like customers or employees with government problems, it makes for bad business. Lose your job and you lose your home, lose your home and possiblly your family, mental health, life(?).

Wise up! there is a false light coming from the White House these days, and that light is getting darker as each say draws to a close. America is transforming and it will take a UNITED American people to stand up and make the changes necessary to stop the slide.

The spin has started, what will YOU do to control it and correct it?

There is One who has a plan that has been in effect from the beginning, One who rules with Justice and Righteousness for EVERYONE, One who knows every heart but loves us anyway, One who has power over life and death. I chose to go with God the Father, and put my trust, faith and action in His Son Jesus Christ.

Besides, this healthcare reform is being paraded as a success in the Canadan version, but Europeans are acting to toss their healthcare system (much the same as this one), and Canada's is on the brink of falling apart as well. Where is our model of success to follow?

1. Tax-paying is the law. It's not anonymous charity. It's a sin if you don't pay it.

2. People are frightened by the implications of health care reform for America as a whole. We don't have the number of resources required to support all Americans. This will inevitably result in long waits for simple procedures and perhaps even deaths that could have been avoided if handled earlier. The proposition on paper is so long and worded so oddly that no one is quite sure what it means for us, so many are afraid to support what they don't understand.

Personally, I think they are pushing this waaaaay too fast. Even Chris Matthews said on the Today Show that this should be a step-by-step process, starting with lowered costs and ending with universal health care. If this current plan fails, it could be years before another one comes a long. That's why they need to work steadily toward universal reform rather than forcing it on us all at once.

This issue has nothing to do with Christianity or morality. This has to do with survival.   

@mpwarren@xanga - may i ask where you got your info?
I am not sure where you are located, but I am in Canada and (unless I am totally misguided and living under a rock and hear nothing in the news, which by the way, i am not) our health care is not falling apart.. in fact the province of Alberta just made their health care free as of January this year.
And about Europe.. I have aprox. 100 family members living in the Netherlands & Germany and they are telling me the opposite of what you just posted...
I will admit I could be wrong.. but thats why I'd like to know where you got your info.

As for longer wait times to see a Dr.. I made an appointment yesterday and saw my Dr this morning.. oh yea, long wait. One of my best friends had to see a specialist, had to wait a whole week to get in to see the Dr... yepp that was long....

I do not think universal health care will succeed in the USA. The country's economy will fall apart.
Europe and Canada have had this in place for years and years and years, so our economies are structured with it in place.
I think rather then going full "free for all" on health care, there should be subsidy programmes for those who need it (much like Alberta had until it went free).

@LadyGwenivere@xanga - Hello, I saw it in a news blurb last night before I signed off. I'm trying to find it again to back up what I said. I really should have found it first. Anyway, I'll keep looking.

@LadyGwenivere@xanga - I think that's a very accurate prediction.

Canada knows what it's doing. We don't. People don't really seem to realize that. Of course, that may be because Canada is woefully ignored by Americans (the only time Canada was ever discussed in any school I attended was in 8th grade), but supporters are seeing it as a convenient poster-boy for why the reform will work.

here's the thing: charity is done of one's free will. charity is one's own choice, and never to be forced upon another individual.

according to your argument, christians ought to be charitable. if this is the case, they should already by helping the poor and not just waiting for obama's plan. you as an individual have every right to help pay for someone's healthcare. however, and so many seem to forget this, that tax is levied on everyone. thus, everyone is required to contribute to your charitable cause, and it's no longer charity - it's tax.

tell me, is it "christian" to force others to do what they don't want to? all because you feel they "should?" what if they aren't christian? as i have said many times before on similar blogs, there are charities that help pay for the healthcare of the un/underinsured. support them. do your part, and leave the rest of us alone.

@quicksandbuddy@xanga - i think i adore you     (LOL)  My husband is American (yes, I made him move here) and we were talking about this very thing last night. He cannot understand why there is so very little taught about Canada in American schools. Whereas here we have whole parts of our school year (at least I did) devoted to learning about the USA. He also said most US states are not taught much about anything other then their state (he grew up in Florida so I am not sure if all states are like this but its what he experienced).
I remember going to visit him once and I was wearing my "Canada" hoody and a little girl actualy asked me if I was from here. I said I was and she looked me right in the eye and said "wow! I've never met a real live Canadian before! How'd ya'll get to an airport? You don't have roads like us"
Yea.

@DarthPatriot@xanga - hrm well ok.. but I have an experience actually receiving subsidized health care. I lived in Alberta where you had to pay for health care up until this year. Because of the insaine cost of living out there, my husband I am were not making alot of money, and I needed to see a Dr. The only way I could see the Dr, is to have health care. So we applied for Alberta health, and then found out that our income was low enough to qualify us for a subsidy. We had to reapply every year when we filed taxes. The last year (out of 5) that we lived there we did not qualify so we had to pay for it. We did easily because our income increased slowly and the change of having to pay for health care made very little difference to us, plus we planned for it.

I just hope the US does this the smart way, or I may have my in-laws moving in. (kidding).