Sunday, 23 August 2009
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Would You Be Left Out?
The Census Bureau said that Mormon missionaries from Utah — however visible they are all over the world in their white shirts and ties — would be left out of the 2010 census. In 2000, more than 11,000 foreign missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were not counted, when the state fell 857 people short of qualifying for a fourth seat in the House of Representatives. The census counts military personal and federal employees living abroad, but no other citizens. Representative Jim Matheson, a Democrat, recently sponsored an amendment to a State Department budget bill that would require the Census Bureau to study whether passport records could be used to count Americans living abroad. I found the above on the New York Times website and thought it rather intriguing. Why is it that our nation is not counting these people? Even if you put aside the fact that CJCLDS believes in plural marriage and is on the Mormon side of Christianity, shouldn't they still be considered members of our nation where we're guarenteed freedom of religion? These people believe that they are doing God's work, the definition of a missionary, so why would we deny their existance when it comes to truly knowing how many people are in our nation and how many people practice different faiths? What if the Census wasn't counting Mormon missionaries, but Christians in general? Aren't they being a little unreasonable simply because of the type of faith these missionaries believe in?
How would you feel if you were in this position? What is your reaction to this article?
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- From: Graceful_Timber
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Comments (17)
...shouldn't they still be considered members of our nation where we're guarenteed freedom of religion? ...why would we deny their existance when it comes to truly knowing how many people are in our nation and how many people practice different faiths?
Because they're not residing in the country. There is no crystal ball with which to forcast wheter or when those living abroad will return to live in their home states.
Oh, and I thought you framed the issue shittily. Faith and "freedom of religion" has little to do with this issue of the census.
You could have argued that there's a reasonable expectation of Mormon Missionaries returning home in an year or two and that their absence, within the ten year window of the census, is negligable. But you don't.
Particularities of a faith doesn't give its practioners carte blanche for bending the laws and regulations.
I really don't think this is an issue of freedom of religion, but something relating to the details of how the census is done.
"The census counts military personal and federal employees living abroad, but no other citizens."
It doesn't seem like this group was singled out because of their religion, and that there may be others who are not counted, either.
As for whether it's right or not, I don't know. An argument could be made either way. Maybe things such as the amount of time spent in other countries compared with the amount of time spent in the U. S. should be taken into consideration.
- J. M. 713
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does not believe in plural marriage. Actually, you'll get excommunicated for it. Get your facts straight.
@NightCometh@xanga - That's a newer-ish aspect of that church, which I'm sad to say not everyone knows about because unfortunately, not everyone knows enough about different religions. I wouldn't be so harsh if I were you.
Wow, that was my first time in a long time hearing Mormons refered to as Christians... huh...
I do belive that the census should include those on missions, if they don't already. They call their hometown HOME, for a reason: they LIVE there, even if they're traveling abroad. The purpose of a census is to determine how many people LIVE in an area, and their demographics...
It's not only Mormon missionaries not being counted, but all ex-pats, myself included.
@nodnarbassoon@xanga - Harsh to ask someone writing an article, on a Christian website, to not refer to a practice which was done away with in the 1880s as being current?
people not residing in the country, or state in this case, for reasons other than government jobs don't get counted in the census. that doesn't seem discriminatory to me.
@nodnarbassoon@xanga - The concept isn't about plural marriage (in fact at its height, only 25% of the Church practiced it) but of
eternalmarriage (that was something everyone participated in). Marriage for eternity is something that was taught by the Savior Himself.
As for the article, I think it's valid to count the LDS Missionaries as part of the census. They are there on visas. In other words, they must return home after their 2 years (18 months if you're a girl) are up.
@J_Goldens_Shadow@xanga - i think the problem with that with representation. if the number of people who leave each year equals the number that returns, the state will always have ~11000 people less than its census indicates if it counts missionaries. it doesn't matter if they return in two years because other missionaries will leave in their place, and the state will still be overrepresented in comparison to other states.
As far as I know, no missionaries overseas get counted, regardless of their church. The main difference here is that this group is such a substantial percentage of the population of Utah.
@NightCometh@xanga - Oops, apparently I didn't know how long ago it actually was... However, there ARE some extremists out there who still practice it (I have been led to believe... could be wrong...). But the average person is very misinformed about LDS, so it is better to kindly reveal to them that "Hey! ACTUALLY, they haven't been doing that for a while". I know that I personally didn't know this aspect until only a few years ago, after talking to a Mormon friend.
Anyway, this is completely irrelevant to the post...
@J_Goldens_Shadow@xanga - Sorry, I honestly don't know much about the subject, just that they don't practice polygamy any more. Where does eternal marriage fit in, and why did you bring it up? (again, I don't know much... I'm taking advantage of a chance to learn)
@MissPixieGlitter@xanga - It depends. There are states that have more LDS Missionaries leaving (and more Mormons in the state for that matter). But at the same time, you're right. They're not. Should they? I think they should.
@nodnarbassoon@xanga - Many people focus on plural marriage since it was revealed in the same revelation as eternal marriage. Plural Marriage was only practiced by the original LDS Church for just under 50 years. There were groups who broke off because they didn't understand the principle that was taught and thought that they shouldn't follow the law. All that aside, the principle of eternal marriage is just that - marriage for time and all eternity, not just until death do you part. That is the major ordinance in the LDS Temples is marriages for time and eternity. Everything about the Gospel of Jesus Christ leads to the eternal relationship of the family. And when you honestly think about it, would heaven be heaven without those you love (wife, husband, kids, parents, etc)?
@J_Goldens_Shadow@xanga - So you're saying that the real problem people have with mormons' views on marriage is the "eternal" part? That is definitely a silly thing to have a problem with.
@nodnarbassoon@xanga - Not necessarily. Most people completely overlook the eternal aspect and just focus on the thing that they're uncomfortable with, forgetting that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is anything but convenient.