Wednesday, 19 August 2009
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They're Going to Hell?
First of all, I should tell you that I'm fairly naive when it comes to different religons. I know quite a bit about my own, and what I thought was a considerable amount about others, but I'm learning more and more how little I actually know. So I'm turning to you to help me understand something from a religion slightly different than mine.I, as well as my family (I mean ENTIRE family), am Roman Catholic. And as Catholics, one thing they teach us over and over in Catholic school is that just because someone's religion is different from ours, it doesn't mean they are wrong, or dumb, or a bad person. So it was no problem for us when my brother came home and announced that the girl he had recently become quite serious with was Baptist. She's a sweet girl, and she loves my brother and treats him well, and brings out the best in him. So why on earth should I have a problem with her?
Unfortunately, her family does not feel the same way. They constantly tell her that my brother is "trash" because of his religon, amongst other things. The other main problem for them is that he hasn't finished school yet. I'll admit, my brother had some trouble finding himself when he first graduated from high school. He spent a few years working before he went on to school. So now he's 25, and working on getting his degree in meteorology and making Dean's List ever semester. As well as working full time. So how does that make him "trash"?
When my brother and his girlfriend sat down with her parents and told them they were seriously considering marrying each other, they didn't respond with love and support, but rather told her that if she married him, both they and their children would be going to hell. This is really where they lost me. My brother is a wonderful man. He goes to (Catholic) mass every sunday, and prays, and is just what you would consider to be a good person in general. So why does that condemn him to hell? And how on earth can their unborn children already be condemned to hell for something they have played no part in?
Well, they decided to get married anyway, and risk eternal damnation, but now more problems arise. She lives in Kansas, and he's from Ohio. Granted they both live in Kansas now, he'd like to have the wedding in Ohio because out family is infinitaly larger than theirs. But they don't want to travel. They also don't approve of my brother's desire to have a Catholic Mass and traditional wedding. But she doesn't have a problem with it, so why should they? And their other issue is drinking at the reception. I wasn't aware until I met this girl that Baptists believe drinking is a sin. Now she herself will have a drink on occasion, and has no problem serving alcohol to the guests at their reception. But her parents say if there is even alcohol present they won't attend, because they'll be in a room full on sinners. Is it fair for them to deprive us of our traditions to maintain theirs? Obviously no one will be asking them to drink, so shouldn't they just trust that each person there will receive whatever reprimand (or not) God sees fit.
What do you think? Is this a normal Baptist family, or are things being taken to the extreme here. Which family do you think should make a sacrifice for the other?
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- From: Short_N_Feisty@xanga
- Name: briGid
- About Me: "Like a jack rabbit on a pogo stick"
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Comments (103)
intersting question.
Baptists and Catholics have a much bigger rift than a lot of Protestants and Catholics. I am Assembly of God, and we do not condemn Catholics out of hand like that. But, I also think this highlights the problem of marrying someone your family disapproves of. It sets you up for a lifetime of misery unless something big changes.
Doing well in school and having a job doesn't mean you aren't "trashy."
Both families need to compromise.
From my experience on both sides of the line, this is (sadly) how many Baptists view Catholics, well, any other denomination for that matter. A lot of Baptits are so quick to cry out when they are discriminated against, yet they seem to be professionals at the business - but, this can be the case with any Christian of any denomination.
My opinion? Have a Catholic wedding, tie and gag the inlaws and sit them down right behind the priest. Maybe while the happy couple is on the honeymoon, the priest can preform an exorcisim and cast out all the unclean Baptist views
According to the Bible, everyone is naturally a "full-on sinner." :) :P
It's too bad that the future inlaws can't be more agreeable. I think they are taking it a little far, but, being raised in a similar, conservative denomination that has historically had problems with the Catholic faith, I can see how they probably think that they are defending the right from evil compromise or something. I have seen how those with the more uptight personalities can really make trouble where it isn't due. And they sound uptight. Regardless of their beliefs, calling him "trash" is a personal problem. At the very least, not something anyone should blame their denomination for. Practically speaking, they ought to know better. They're going to have a son-in-law soon and while their harsh words may be forgiven, they can never be forgotten.
Some kind of compromise here on both sides would be great. If the Baptist family were my family and I was marrying a Catholic and wanted my family to travel because his family was larger, they would. They wouldn't be really excited about church I was marrying into but they would try to support me in my love for the guy and they would show up for the wedding. They'd try to be good sports, anyhow.
I hope this works out favorably.
The question is whether a person loves and follows Jesus. There are members of every denomination that do, and there are members of every denomination that don't.
@crystal_air@xanga - haha, i'll suggest it.
@DistantStarlight@xanga - I agree, that thinking he is trash is more personal, and something they shouldn't blame on religon. It just seems as though that's what it all comes back to.
And my brother has been very good about saying, hey I'm Catholic, but you don't have to be. Every decision to go to mass or anything like that has been her decision completely. I know they can't be completely bad people, because they raised someone as kind as her, so I'm trying to just keep reminding myself that. Thanks for the good wishes.
Trust me, they are NOT typical Baptists. I'm Baptist, but I don't believe any of that crap about drinking being a sin, your brother and soon-to-be-sister-in-law going to hell, or ther children. Their just being pretty extreme about the whole thing. I know a lot of Baptists tend to be butts, but please don't group us all together.
@pianokeysKTbug@xanga - No, I don't mean to say all Baptists are bad. Sorry if it came off that way. It was more that I really just didn't know if that was normal. But I know plenty of Catholic jerks, so I know just a few don't make or break a religon.
I was talking about this with my boyfriend the other day, and we discovered that the biggest assholes in the world are the ones who feel they have God on their side. Look at Islamic extremists - the mass majority of Muslims are ashamed to be lumped with them and are the ones taking the heat for it/being ostracized on an everyday basis. An average jerk is going to get called out on his actions - and either 1) not give a crap, or 2) say "Oh man, I need to change." But a person who thinks they are doing something based on their religious beliefs will "find affirmation" through their "reading of Scripture" and Biblical interpretations... and carry on with their ridiculous bigotry.
I'm sorry your brother is experiencing that... But he and his wife-to-be will be their own new family, in which they will hopefully live happily ever after and learn from her parents' prejudices.
This is why many conservative baptists suck. Thank God I am no longer one of them. Blessings on your brother's new family.
p
Run off to Vegas and get married in a chapel there. That way both families are pissed off.
Even if you don't do that, it could be a useful tool in getting some concessions and forming a compromise.
1. Compromise needs to come from both sides.
2. Not all baptists think drinking alcohol is sinful.
3. If alcohol is going to be a problem they would do best to eliminate it from the service.
4. The parents don't know who goes to hell and their condemnation is unfounded and unjust.
5. How is your family actively loving this other family?
Kill and butcher your brother's girlfriend's family and serve them up as appetizers at the wedding.
I think it's important for your brother and his fiance to remember that this is THEIR wedding. They should be able to have the wedding that they want, not the wedding their parents want for them.
I had a similar situation when I got married last month. I come from a Catholic family and my husband's family is Christadelphian. My mom wanted a Catholic ceremony, his mom wanted it to be at their church. Together both of us decided not to have it at ANY church and instead rented out a party center (the wedding was in Ohio, actually, and depending on where they're getting married I may be able to make some recommendations!).
Anyhow, the point is that this isn't your parents wedding or her parents wedding and they are going to need to make some concessions if they want to maintain a relationship with their kids.
Your brother's girlfriend's parents are ignorant people. I'm not religious but I thought the Bible is supposed to teach people to be accepting of one another. Your brother could have been born as a Baptist and been the same exact person he is today and those parents would LOVE him. People love to use labels to weed out certain members of society.
this is BS. her parents are just off the top. doesn't the bible teach us to accept others? -____-
@Islandgirl566@xanga - Hate to tell you, but it's not all bullshit. I'm Catholic and I'm marrying a Baptist and there ARE Baptists like that. I know because I've come across a few over the course of my life who wanted to "save" me, and some who still do. Every church is different, but there are Baptists out there who think the KJV is the original & only version of the Bible, who think drinking alcohol is a sin and who think Catholics are going to hell.
Also, not sure which side you're talking about, but marrying a Baptist isn't a sin in the Catholic's eyes.
I am pretty much used to that. I'm presbyterian, even though i believe strongly in a lot the catholic church says. I get crap like this from a lot of people. and its not all baptists. there are good baptists in the world you just gotta keep people away from propaganda
Calling someone trash is something to be concerned about. It doesn't sound like something Christians should be saying in the first place. Like some of the other people on this site have said, churches vary. There are some really good baptist churches and there are some messed up ones. The difference between typical baptist and Catholic theology is quite distinct. The biggest difference being salvation by faith alone. I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers but Catholic theology does not hold to salvation by faith alone but adds works to the equasion. Eph.2:8,9 says "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any one should boast. When a believer repents and trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross, at that moment Christs perfect righteousness is imputed to the believer[applied to his or her account]. That means all sins past, present and future are all dealt with and they are completely justified by faith. Salvation is monergistic,[a work of God alone] however sanctification is synergistic,[we cooperate with God in growing in holiness] In Catholic theology,some of Christs righteousness is INFUSED to the believer, and he must from then on work along side God at becoming perfect before death. If they don't succeed, they spend time in purgatory, to have their remaining sins purged so that they can enter heaven at a later date. Purgatory is not biblical, however they usually try to use 1Cor.3 to say that it is. So you can see why baptists might have an issue with Catholics, and even be concerned for their eternity.
Any Catholics, please feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong, but I don't think I did.:]
@Short_N_Feisty@xanga - No, no, i didn't take it that way.
I was just clarifying for everybody that Baptists aren't all like that. You didn't offend me.
@Islandgirl566@xanga - I was raised Catholic and served as an Acolyte for many years. I know of no such edict where marrying another of a different faith is a sin. Perhaps in the Dark Ages I could see this happening should the spouse not convert, but any time within the last 200 years? In any case, there is absolutely no scripture, doctrine, or dogma in the Catholic Church that supports this idea.
You're saying that your father was excommunicated for marrying a Baptist? That some Bishop came along and formally condemned him to Hell, and severed his ties to God for marrying a Baptist? I find this extremely difficult to believe. Excommunication is the most severe punishment the Catholic Church can impose, and is even done by trial. It's considering infinately worse than death even.
@Islandgirl566@xanga - Yeah, but thousands of Baptist-Catholic couples are married yearly. There's several from various parishes in my Interfaith Couple group. None of us got "kicked out"/excommunicated for it. Hell, we're getting married IN the church, even a few couples who are marrying nonChristians. Yours is the only story I've ever heard of. Interesting, tho
my grandmother is Baptist... the family of my hopefully future fiancee is Catholic. both of us are agnostic, so religion doesn't matter to us anyway. but i could foresee it being a problem in the future.
I am a Catholic, and I've found-from personal experience-that Baptists tend to hate us A LOT more than the Protestants. I honestly don't know why, but unfortunately that's just the way it is. In the past few years I've met some Baptists who are accepting of everyone; on the other hand, I have also met some who are extremely psychotic. This girls parent's sound like they fall under the second category.
First of all, they need to realize that we are all sinners. Whether or not you believe drinking alcohol is a sin is your business, but the Bible clearly says that we need to love everyone, even sinners. Refusing to come to your own daughter's wedding just because there will be "sinners" there is just plain ridiculous, and contradictory to what Jesus taught. If I were you I'd be very tempted to look at them and say, "Get off your high horse. Everyone sins, even you."
Secondly, it's not their wedding. It is your brother and his fiances wedding. They should be free to have the reception however they want it. And if her parents don't like it, well then that's just too freaking bad.
And third, they are NOT going to hell. Their children most certainly are not either! Going to hell. Pfft. We ourselves cannot say who is or isn't damned to hell; only God can. We can't even say Hitler is in hell! Now, we are pretty sure that he is, of course, but we still can't say it because we don't know for sure. "Judge not 'lest ye be judged." I know it says that somewhere in the Bible. I'm not going to even pretend like I know the book and verse though. I am ashamed to say I am a typical Catholic who doesn't have any verses memorized...
And I'll shut up now. Sorry for the rant, but this is the kind of stuff that I can just go on and on about.