The question of whether or not Christians, who are saved by grace, are still supposed to follow the laws of the Old Testament has always fascinated me. Paul wrote extensively in the New Testament about the freedom of the believer from the demands of the law. It is widely accepted within Christendom that the law was meant to point the way towards our need for a savior, and to foreshadow Christ, and is thus no longer binding upon us because of the grace of God.
Yet, most Christians still have their male children circumcised, and Christian children in churches around the world still memorize the Ten Commandments in Sunday School. Thus it seems that practice of old testament law is alive and well within Christendom today.
One particularly interesting twist of this duel logic involves the "blue laws" which still exist in many states and communities in America today. These are laws that prescribe when stores may open (and which stores are allowed to open at all) on Sundays. The idea behind these laws is rooted deeply in the Old Testament command to "honor the sabbath day and keep it holy." In what them seems to be a direct contradiction, the laws all concern Sunday - which is not the sabbath day - on the basis that the Old Testament no longer applies and the day of rest is now supposed to be the first rather than the seventh day of the week.
The point of Paul's writings, of course, is that we no longer have to strive to be perfect (an impossible goal), because we have salvation through Christ. If you truly love and follow Him, however, you will want to live according to God's will. This means honoring your parents and the sabbath, not worshiping idols or committing murder or adultery, etc. In other words, this means obeying His law because we want to please Him, not because we have to in order to be saved.
Jesus Himself said that the greatest commandment is to "Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your mind, and all of your soul," and that the second is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." He didn't make these up when questioned, but rather quoted an Old Testament law that would have been well-known to His disciples and other people of that time.
Don't forget either that Paul also wrote that we as Christians are a "peculiar people" and a "royal priesthood." He reminds us to keep ourselves set apart from the ways of the world and to strive to be holy, as God is holy. Paul further writes that we are not of this world. Indeed, we should not live as though we are of this world. One way that we can remain set apart and demonstrate the leadership of God in our lives is by following His laws to the best of our limited fallible human ability. When we fall short (and we will, often), we seek forgiveness which is assured to us through Christ.
Is the Old Testament still relevant to Christians today?
You don't have to be a Christian to answer this - as someone outside the faith, how do you view Christians who do or do not follow the Old Testament laws? Does it matter?
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Comments (27)
I've talked to discipleship leaders about this, and they told me that a real Christian will WANT to follow these laws, and acting this way is a sign of loving God. It will not save anyone, but it is a way to love God.
Of course it's still relevant but we are not required to keep all the ceremonial laws anymore. One place this is clearly shown is when God tells Peter to eat animals that were forbidden to be eaten in the O.T.
Oh goodness. OF COURSE IT'S STILL RELEVANT!!!
Now I'm not saying we need to sacrifice animals. You'd probably get in a lot of shit for that...but the reasons for many of the old testament rules were simply health related. It was God wanting to protect His kids (and the line of which Jesus would come I suppose). Circumcision still makes sense from a health perspective. Not eating pork makes sense, depending on the butchering practices and how pigs are raised (also, in the new testament demons were driven into pigs by Jesus...whether or not this was a regular practice in the OT I don't know, but that could explain that. After all, we fight against what is UNSEEN).
About tattooing and body piercings, even today if it's not done properly it's a health hazard. I don't know exactly what was going on in culture at that time, but there were those who cut themselves in mourning of the dead, and this may have been along the same lines.
Besides the practices and rules of the OT, it is still incredibly valuable because it shows God's glory and character. It's a story of redemption, of bring the Israelites out of Egypt. Still being there for them even after they screwed up time and time again. Also it is useful because it shows how prophecies are fulfilled, and therefore gives further glory to God. And whether you consider yourself a Christian or not, it's hard to disagree with the wisdom of Proverbs.
so...I'm all about the OT.
I think that understanding the relationship between the old and new covenants is one of the biggest theological problems in the church. We are not bound to the Old Covenant in any way - not even to the ten commandments. In the words of Paul, "the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, but now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."
There's nothing wrong with a 10-year old student who has a math tutor. However, if 15 years later he still has the tutor, he obviously hasn't learned what he was supposed to learn. The law pointed us to Christ, and it still does. Knowing the law is useful, as it reveals God's heart. However, the Christian is no longer bound to a single aspect of the law, as according to the New Testament, it only has the power to bring about death.
I've heard too many times that we're not saved by the law, but we obey it to please God. You even said that in your post. Has Christ only freed us from the punishment from the law, yet not the demands of it? Of course not! We are freed from both the punishment and the demands of the law. I'm sure that you do not even keep the entire law to please God (i.e. eating restrictions, no mixed fabrics, etc.) - just parts that you pick and choose. So how can you sit there and say that we should obey the law to please God when you yourself don't even try to obey it all? As Paul says in Galatians 3, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by ALL things written in the book of the law, to perform them." He's quoting Deuteronomy 27:26, and actually adds the word "all" into the verse to make a point - that if you're going to try to obey some of the law, you better obey ALL of it.
You said:
The point of Paul's writings, of course, is that we no longer have to strive to be perfect...
Didn't Christ say "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect"? In fact, I'd argue that's perhaps the biggest difference between the Old and New covenants. Now that we are no longer judged by the law and death, we have the power to freely pursue Christ, rather than the law. We're freed to pursue perfection without fear of death.
People are afraid that if we get rid of the law, others will just do whatever they want. However, the New Covenant is actually much harder to fulfill than the law. The law gave us mostly a bunch of minimum requirements: Give 10%, don't take advantage of your countrymen, don't murder, don't steal. However, the New covenant takes all of those 'minimums' away, and says things like "be perfect," "your attitude should be the same as Christ," and "love your enemies." These things are much harder than simply trying to avoid doing bad things.
It's not that we are going to intentionally disobey the law, it's that our sights are much higher. If we're asking ourselves if we obeyed the law, we're setting our sights entirely too low. Yes, we may have given 10%, but did we give generously? Yes, I avoided adultery, but did I avoid impure thoughts altogether? That's why we shouldn't be concerned about whether or not we obey the law - because our pursuit of Christ-like perfection is much more lofty than the law.
We are free not only from the punishment of the law, but the demands of the law. It is merely a tutor, which taught us a lot but is no longer necessary to obey. The only law we are bound to is the law of Christ. We are now free to pursue Him..
@musterion99@xanga - The problem is, there are no distinctions about what is 'ceremonial' law and what isn't. Nor is there in the Jewish mind. The law is the law. Christians have made distinctions about 'ceremonial,' 'civil,' and 'moral' laws in the Old Testament that simply do not exist. The Old Testament itself doesn't divide them up whatsoever. As Paul says in Galatians (as I mentioned in my response), if we're going to obey the law, we better obey ALL of it.
after taking a class on early Christianity, my opinion is that the Jewish followers of Jesus did away with the Law because they wanted to convert non-Jews who had no interest in getting circumcised or keeping kosher. Jesus used a well-known formula of explaining the Law ("The Law says... but I say...") that many Christians cite as proof that they don't have to follow it. but in Judaism of that time, it was understood to be a simple suggestion to just not follow the bare minimum. for example, if you want to keep kids out of a pool, you build a fence a few feet around the parameter... not right on the edge. the same principle applies.
if the Law no longer applies, Christians should stop quoting it whenever it suits them. either the whole thing is applicable, or null and void. you can't tell me that gays are going to Hell, but still eat shellfish. both are abominations.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Homosexuality is also mentioned in the New Testament, which for a Christian, makes it a bit different than the Old Testament command not to eat shellfish.
@Theophilus166@xanga - then don't quote any references to it in the OT.
@Theophilus166@xanga - Paul was speaking in reference to salvation in regard to keeping all the laws. It doesn't mean that we should not observe the moral laws. If we're no longer under the law to not kill, then we can kill someone and it's not a sin. But we're not saved because we keep the law and do not kill someone. The N.T. still admonishes us to observe the law as we see in Ephesians 6:2-3.
<li id="verseTxt_1_2">2.Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;) <li id="verseTxt_1_3">3.That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.I'm not Jewish, so I'm not bound by the Law of the OT.
That is not the same as saying it's irrelevant.
And I second Theophilus166 in a lot of respects. Separating the law into arbitrary categories is not warranted in the Scripture. I think it's often evidence of trying to manufacture a loophole so someone can still cling to certain moral laws while distancing themselves from the likes of, "Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk."
I could spend a lot of time explaining why there is confusion, and what God's Word really says, and why there are so many, many interpretations of even the simple verses. It would not do any good unless I spend hours, even days or weeks showing you evidence from the Greek and Hebrew.
Let me just say:
1. Christ fulfilled The Law for us:
Romans 10:4
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
2. There is great learning in all the books of the Bible:
Romans 15:3 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
I can do no more in a sound byte.
Its much more difficult to understand the relevancy of the OT if we approach the Bible as a giant rule book. There's so much more to it than that.
I'll just leave it there, I think @Theophilus166@xanga explained it fairly well.
@musterion99@xanga - You missed the point. We're under the law of Christ, not the Old Testament law. You cannot go out and kill someone simply because you're not under the Old Testament law, because Jesus said to love our enemies. In many ways, the Old Testament law and the law of Christ will overlap. That's why one of the laws is quoted in Ephesians 6. However, simply because they overlap doesn't mean you're bound to the Old Testament law and more than you're bound to Muslim law because in some ways it overlaps with our own constitution.
I also challenge you to outline where in the Old Testament some laws are designated as "moral" laws, while others are not moral laws. It's simply not in there.
I think people's ignorance where the OT is concerned accounts for a great deal of trouble we have today.
We're NT Christians because we're under a New Covenant... that doesn't mean that the Old Testament (which contains a LOT more than just Law) is no longer relevant to us.
It is tremendously instructive to read all the OT laws. There are valuable principles that can be distilled regarding stewardship, justice, relationships, trust in God, equity, mercy, generosity, holiness, purity, integrity.
As Western Gentile Christians, we tend to view OT laws as two categories. One is what we might call moral laws, as embodied in the Ten Commandments and the two greatest commandments, and illustrated in laws related to more specific situations (such as incest or homosexuality, which are more specific cases of the Commandment regarding adultery). Other laws are civil or religious or cultural directives (such as diet, circumcision, tassels on garments, the calendar of feasts). We tend to recognize the difference intuitively, although there is ongoing vigorous debate about things like tithing or the Sabbath.
While this is not laid out anywhere in the Bible, there is some support in the way the early Church operated.
Having the law written on our hearts means we will naturally keep the OT laws related to morality when we are surrendered to God and seek his guidance. Nothing in the NT abrogates the Ten Commandments (although Jesus did clarify that the Sabbath is for people's benefit, not an iron rule to bind them). The Sermon on the Mount sets an even higher standard than a surface reading of the Ten Commandments would suggest. In effect, it integrates "Do not covet" with the prohibitions against murder, theft, and adultery. (I think Francis Schaeffer wrote about that.) In exalting the greatest commandments, Jesus points out how the other commandments result from loving God and our neighbors.
The discussions and decisions described in Acts and the epistles make it clear that the Holy Spirit and the early church did not consider all the OT civil/religious/cultural directives to be normative for Gentiles nor for the Jewish Christians ministering to them. Paul spoke quite harshly of those who insisted that Gentile believers needed to become circumcised Jewish proselytes, and scolded Peter for his hypocrisy in suddenly returning to keeping kosher when other Jews were visiting. But Paul was equally strong in confronting sexual sin in the church, indicating that there is a significant difference between kashrut and sexual purity.
Most of the commentors said what I wanted to say. But I reccommend reading Mudhouse Sabbath by Lauren Winner. It's a short book, about 100 pages, about why it's important for Christians to understand the OT laws. The author grew up Orthodox Jewish and became a Christian in college (like me, except I was never Orthodox) so it has some great insights.
@Theophilus166@xanga - Saying that they overlap makes no sense. If God still wants us to obey the law of honoring our parents, then he also wants us to obey the law of not stealing, lying, committing adultery, and killing.
In I Cor. 7:19, Paul says - "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." Here we see a distinction between ceremonial law, circumcision, and moral law, the commandments of God. You're right, it doesn't explicitly say moral and ceremonial, but neither does the bible explicitly say the trinity.
And in 9:21 Paul says he is under the law "to" Christ. He doesn't say the law of Christ here, but the law to Christ.
And again Paul says in Romans 7:22 that he delights in the law of God and that he serves the law of God with his mind(v.25). The law here is speaking of O.T. law as you can see from verses 8-12.
It's not only Paul who says this. In I John 2:3, 5:2-3, John tells us to keep God's commandments. John says this is not a new commandment, but an old one (2:7).
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, but not from still doing it. We are still to honor our parents, and not lie, steal, commit adultery, or kill.
I know we're in agreement that keeping the law does not save us. But as I've said and James says - "Faith without works (doing the law) is dead." Even though we're not saved by it, after we're saved we still need to obey God's commands.
The Old Testament is absolutely essential to a Christian today because it is the foundation upon which Jesus came. W/o the Old testament you won't understand Mosaic law, who the Son of Man was, the imagery and majesty of angels, how to pray, intercession, a long history of people of faith and any number of things that are essential to living a life of loving God, yourself, and others. The old testament reveals a God that is a lot more merciful than people deserve.
I also wanted to respond to the poster who said that loving God means obeying the law. Good luck w/ that. I am glad I don't have to, I am not Jewish. I am Christian and all I have to do is obey Jesus. It's one thing to look at the principles of the law and incorporate that into your lives but who can actually obey all 636 laws. I know I can't. I don't like setting myself up to fail. I don't understand why any Christian would want that.
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As Seventh-Day Adventists, we consider the OT to be very relevant. But I still struggle with which laws, exactly, still apply to us today. If they don't, then why has God preserved them in His Word?
I wonder - is there a distinction between the Mosaic Law (10 commandments and all that is related to it?) and the Levitical laws? The Mosaic law still stands - after all, the 10 commandments are very real for us today. Jesus expanded on the Mosaic law - for instance to say that hating your brother is just as wrong as killing him. But the Levitical law is what Jesus fulfilled. The Levitical laws (ie ceremonial laws, sacrificial laws etc) ALL pointed towards a Saviour who would redeem His people. Jesus fulfilled THOSE laws so we don't have to keep them anymore. But the Mosaic Laws are different, are they not?
Also - the comment "most Christians still have their male children circumcised" -- is based on what? A study? research? How is that statement validated? Because most Christian parents I know absolutely do NOT see a need religiously to circumcise their sons. If they do it has nothing to do with the OT covenant, rather, it's because "the father is" or because they've bought into the belief that it's better.
@nicolevw@xanga - The Levitical law and Mosaic law are one. There is no distinction. We don't have to follow any of it. Jesus never asked non-Jews to follow the law. He never did, check it out, the Syro-Phoenician was never asked to do it, the Roman Centurion was never asked, the Demoniac was never asked, the Samaritan woman was never asked but he did ask the Jews in his company to follow him and when the law needed changing he changed it arbitrarily.
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How do you understand Galatians 3:29 if you don't know the Old Testament? "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." What promise is this? Is it important? You have to go back to Genesis to know what was promised to Abraham...this is where life after death is first promised! If you don't know about Abraham, you don't know what God has promised you!!!
How do you understand Luke 1:32-33 ? The angel speaking to Mary said that her son, "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, his kingdom will never end." Where was David's thone? If you know your Old Testament, it was in Jerusalem. Do you think Jesus will reign as king in Heaven? no...he will reign from Jerusalem...It seems many Christains don't know what God has promised!
Why did Jesus quote scripture so often, espcially Isaiah? Yes, we are supposed to know our Old Testament....it is all apart of God's message to man!!!!
@Pashe@xanga - hmm - just want to clarify what you're saying here. Do you believe then that the commands "do not steal" "do not commit adultery" etc have no application to us? We don't have to follow them? we can live however we want? Just clarifying ....
Is the old testament part of the Bible? Then there's your answer. If it's in the bible, it's relevant. The old testament traditions, along with some of the laws, which were set in place to protect the Jews, are not applicable to us, as we have a new covenant in Christ, which brings a new set of laws, abolishing the old traditions. The way the old testament is relevant is beyond my ability to properly explain, but I know that we can learn a great deal from it, and it definitely helps us understand the New Testament. That's all I can say.
@nicolevw@xanga - The most important law Christ gave the lawyer was "Love God w/ all your heart, mind, and body and love your neighbor as yourself." So that means no stealing, no adultery... If we are trying to love our neighbors we should strive to do as little harm as possible. But the law, is nothing any Christian has to follow but we should obey the principles of the law. Those are timeless while the law itself is stuck in Mosaic and ancient Israelite history.
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