Thursday, 06 August 2009
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Mark Driscoll: "The Cussing Pastor"
Pastor Mark Driscoll is the preaching pastor at Mars Hill Church in Ballard (Seattle), which I have been attending every Sunday since the middle of June. I went to a service a while back, and was captivated by Pastor Mark's ability to tell it like it is. He preaches through culture to appeal to one of the least churched cities in the country. To me, this is incredibly awesome. There needs to be someone who can reach out to people in today’s world. They lure them in with amazingly talented worship bands, and a strong indie-rock theme that emanates Seattle, and then load them up with information that isn't watered down, and tells it how it is. Mars Hill, itself is a very huge church. Over 7,000 people attend services every Sunday, and watch either live in Ballard, or at one of many satellite campuses, located all over (Downtown Seattle, Bellevue, Olympia, Albuquerque NM, and more) which project recordings of Mark’s sermons (used to be a live satellite feed). In addition, thousands more watch the online videos and podcasts which are available at the church's website.
Today, I decided to do some research on Pastor Mark. I figured that since I am now a full time member of Mars Hill, I should get to know a little more about the man who gives the sermons.
Before I go on, let me tell you that my opinion on the guy is very high. I consider him nothing but inspirational. I travel an hour and a half by bus every Sunday just to hear him preach live, and I typically sit somewhere in the front few rows. I won't deny that quite often he can be offensive in his sermons; he doesn't water anything down. Also, like a lot of people, I was first moved by the worship bands, which are incredibly talented. No Christian rock band has ever moved me the way they have at Mars Hill. But as my focused shifted over to the words that were being said, I began to realize just how big of a deal Pastor Mark is.
But in my research today, I discovered that like anyone else who gains as much of a reputation as he has, Mark Driscoll has quite a few enemies, and has caused a few controversies. First of all, the book Blue Like Jazz labels him “Mark the cussing pastor" (Chapter 12). Many people have become uncomfortable with this; however it is very possible that this was taken a little overboard (see here). Personally, I feel that he is fairly intense in his sermons, but I would have never labeled him “the cussing pastor”.
Second, he once made a comment that got people heated up about women’s rights. The best full story I can find is here. Personally, I kind of agree with Pastor Mark to an extent. Yes, the wife should be a little more sexually available, but not in the way many people took his comment to mean (they took it as “women should be submissive to their husbands and give them sex whenever they want… blame the wife for the husband’s sin” - I disagree).
As I continued, I came across a few sites which attempted to bash and slander him, as well as ridicule Mars Hill Church. I invite you to do your own quick Wikipedia or Google searches for “Mark Driscoll” and “the cussing pastor” and see what people think of him. (I enjoy this one by the New York Times).
Basically my point here is that I hold a lot of respect for Pastor Mark. I learned about Jesus through him, and the way that Mark makes sense with everything he says inspires me to get to know Jesus more. (Sorry for the nonreligious readers who are thinking I’m some religious nut – I’m not; I became a Christian less than 6 months ago, and still hold a lot of doubts). I greatly appreciate what he is doing to reach out to the city of Seattle and the surrounding region, and this guy agrees with me. It kind of hurts, though, to read so many attacks on him. My own grandmother read about the issue with the other pastor and the wife, and said she wouldn’t have gone back to church there if he was her pastor, and that really hurt.
Should I listen to those who criticize this man who I have such great respect for? Maybe I should take heed to his faults? There are a few people who do have good points when talking against him. But it has always been my priority to do what I feel is right, and in this case, it is to heed Mark Driscoll. Maybe he has super mind control powers and I’m being brainwashed??
What do you think about Mark Driscoll and other pastors like him? Would you be turned off by their sometimes offensive sermons, or would you support them and listen to what they have to say?
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- From: nodnarbassoon@xanga
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- About Me: I play music, I go to church, and I like to know how our brains work. yeah. Oh, I like to cook too.
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Comments (57)
I disagree with Mark strongly on some issues, but I highly respect him and his ministry, even where we disagree.
He gave a talk at the Desiring God conference either one or two years ago on the subject of offensive language that was right-on, and should silence any critic who would take the time to listen to his Biblical and cultural analysis.
Full video here.
-NDSR
I hear a lot more about Mark and his mouth than I do about discipleship and people being transformed at Mars Hill (which comes with the territory of being a popular pastor). He's written and said a few good things (Porn-again Christian was a nice piece of literature but his other books are unimpressive IMO). I disagree with him on a number of issues. He's a bit abrasive. From interviews I've seen with him I see a man who cares a lot about being relevant and somewhat hip. I don't know him. I know that he talks a lot about sex and his congregation is made of a lot of young families. I know he's a few hours north of me. He's a guy. I take every critique of him with a grain of salt. I'd prefer to meet him and know him.
I wouldn't drive an hour and a half just to watch him teach if there were congregations closer to my home, especially since he has podcasts I can download.
I've never heard about him, but in all honestly its very good that he tells it like it is. The Bible talks about alot of things that 'Christians' and people in general are uncomfortable with. Sex is mentioned a lot in the bible, so is slavery, and so many other 'taboo' topics. But lets get real here, what a lot of Christians think of as 'bad' is in the Bible and is talked about a lot. Sex is totally ok, and God made men and women to get married and reproduce 'have sex'. A lot of Christians avoid churches that encourage having sex (married couples). Which is ridiculous. And if your preacher curses, I'm sure that is something he is and should be working on, but as a human, we all sin and fall short to the glory of God. Every sin is equal, and for someone to look down on him for that is shameful. A lot of churches these days are 'user friendly'. Which means they say and do stuff just to get people to go there. They preach parts of the gospel, but avoid the 'controversial' parts that they think will offend people. A lot of Christians find ways to justify the sin they are using, like 'God will forgive me later anyways.' So they continue going to the user friendly church that doesn't make them feel guilty, just happy. Can you imagine 2000 years ago, and talking with Jesus himself? He was controversial. He was anti-murder/abortion. He shook up the world around him. I bet he'd be really upset with some of the user friendly sermons these days. And I also bet that Jesus wasn't a 'Christian'. He was simply God's son/God-like/Christ-like (what we should aim to be). If Jesus came to one of Mark Driscoll's sermons and saw that him saying the things that need to be said vs. a user friendly church, he would choose your preacher. Because we need to do the right things that are in the Bible, not justify and warp are fun sins into something innocent.
Also, if your worried about being brain washed, just make sure what he preaches is coming from the Bible and most importantly, pray about it.
I hope this helped you! :)
Have a blessed day!
I have never heard of him. Teaching the truth, though is a must. The main thing is whether or not he is teaching from the Word of God. Anything outside of that is wrong.
Nobody is ever right on everything, and we all are most definitely wrong on at least one or two things (serious minimization). Listen to what he says, think, research, and think some more.
Pastor Mark ROCKS!!! His theology is right on and the way he delivers it is fantastic. His heart and passion for Christ and His gospel should be the standard for anyone looking to be a preacher. He "ALWAYS" brings the message full circle back to Christ. He never looses focus and drifts into any personnel presuppositions. He breaks the scriptures down line upon line and precept upon precept, moving through one book at a time.
If anyone want to give this man a listen I highly suggest you find him on iTunes and Podcast him.
He did a doctrine series that started on January of last year. If it is still there download those messages. Fan-flippin-Tastic!
Also, He will be appearing on ABC's Nighline very soon.. Here is a link.
http://theresurgence.com/nightline-interview
@MC_Shann@xanga - Yes! I'm excited! This will be his 3rd time, I think, on ABC.
I support not watering down a sermon, but I do believe that you should never speak with the intention of offending anyone.
I have followed Mark for a long time... not as a "follower" but you know what I mean. I was not really in tune with his baptistic stance for a long time but I appreciated the reformed side of his teaching. Through my own study I realized I was wrong and wound up going there a few years ago. One sunday I noticed him being crude and then another I remember him saying a cuss word... not the F-bomb mind you (I've never heard him say that). It was at that time I left his church and tried some other places. I didn't find the depth anywhere else out there and where there was depth, there was extremeism. So we went back, my wife and I, and he did make some comments about being corrected and working on some things that were not quite right. I missed the place a lot so I considered that good enough and he hasn't been crude or sworn since, that I have heard of. My understanding is that he has changed and people that still talk about this are just dragging out the same old stuff through the mud. There have been some times in the past that I have noticed people at mars hill laughing at sin, but I notice that less and less these days. Mark likes to joke, it's in his personality.... but the subject matter seems a lot better these days. Despite its imperfections, I like mars hill a lot and fully endorse going there.
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Many of the comments here so far are a sad reflection on what is called much of the church. It seems people are more into reformed theology and Calvinism rather than Christianity and a personal relationship with Jesus, living blameless lives unto Him.
I just had to shake my head reading this. What a sad indictment on the church in general.
From what I've heard about him, he sounds great. He may not be perfect, but nobody is. Any critics about his being too abrasive or "cussing" should take a look at many of the sermons and teachings given in the Bible. The truth can be abrasive, the truth can be foul and offensive. As long as he's not just being offensive and abrasive for the sake of shock, but out of a desire to tell the whole unadulterated truth, I don't see the problem. It sounds like he is an acquired taste... not everyone is ready to hear the Word of God in a de-fluffed manner. Many of us have gotten used to taking down the Word of God with a chaser.
I would be turned off by him, however...the "offensiveness" of certain things is relative. What qualifies as "offensive" language is highly dependant on the person saying it. I know people who consider "crap" to be normal speech, whereas I know people who are just as offended by "crap" as they are by "shit." In many ways, I think that such words are losing their identity as "offensive language" and are becoming more identified with the dialects of the groups that prefer certain ones. It is almost becoming a linguistic issue, rather than a moral/ethical one. If a pastor chooses to speak to those around him in the "common" (which is also the original meaning of the word "vulgar") then there is a certain amount of... merit... to the idea.
I had a pastor as a Chem teacher who was HUMAN...he swore, he made semi-obscene comments, he once called me a dumbass (i deserved it) and was also the best teacher I have ever had, the calmest and wisest man I have ever met, and to this day, the ONLY person from any church I have even an ounce of respect for. I think a pastor who swears, sins, and is HUMAN is a pastor I would actually listen to despite my being agnostic.
once a person crawls down off their self-righteous cross to mingle with the filth of the world..this is when I see them and gain respect for them.
I do not know this man nor have I heard his sermons, but based on this I would respect him despite my not liking Christianity
@SirNickDon@xanga - I really enjoyed that video, thanks for sharing. I also liked at 1:04:00 for a few minutes, where he's talking about what he has to deal with in his ministry. Gives a lot of reason to respect him.
To everyone... I fully support him, and strongly agree with his teachings. He goes stright to scripture, and breaks it down really well. For example, quite often in sermons, he'll read from scripture, and then he'll say "Let's unpack this. This is a lot to take in.". He takes the words and he acurately brings them into meaning which is understandable for all. My problem is the people who think little of him, and who make fun of him, and demonize him. My problem is dealing with these criticizms, that honestly, I don't see their justification.
@MAD__HATT3R@xanga - I was just like you (based on this comment) for a while. What you said here is a very acurate description of him. Quite often in sermons, he'll call out christians who are self righteous. He made a comment once about how we make sinners repent sins and they think we're trying to make them religious, and the religious people cheer it on. However, when we make religious people repent of sins, they get defensive (not even close to his exact words, but very similar idea). His religious views on his Facebook page even says "religion sucks".
Not sure where I was going with that, but I'm sure you get the idea...
I have never heard of him either, probably because I am from Australia. I can't really judge him... all I know is 1) Many Pastor sugacoat their sermons and are always trying to please their congregation. Sometimes you need a Pastor who will tell you the truth, who will confront you. It should be done with love, as you don't want to drive people away and cause them to live in fear/guilt, however some temporary fear/guilt can be beneficial if you come out of a life of sin. 2) Pastors come under a lot of attack, from society and from spiritual forces (demons and the devil). The devil will do anything to render people worthless in the kingdom of God. The devil will attack from all angles including criticism, lies, rumours, twisted truths... you name it. Your Pastor has to be a strong man to put up with all of that (I am assuming not everything said about him is true). You need to pray for your pastor too that God protects him and guides him and remember not everything you read on the internet is true.
one of my many favorites... well the newest ones anyways... top of my list as far as who I'll listen to to assist in my own devotionals and Scriptural understandings....
@nodnarbassoon@xanga - good...in my opinion, if your going to believe in god, be christ-like...not christian...after all, it was the religious that ultimately condemned jesus
you gotta look i think at pastor mark's heart for God
he loves Jesus so much
people who criticize him are judgemental!
I like his honesty a lot, and I think he's making a difference here in the Puget Sound area. I definitely disagree with him on some issues (men and women's roles, Calvinism.) I also dislike many of his 'manly jokes' about sissy guys who don't watch sports or scratch themselves or eat wings. But I agree with a lot of what he says. He's preaching the gospel and reaching people that might not otherwise hear it.
I've been to his church once when I was visiting friends in Seattle. He did surprise me with how candid he was about sex in his sermon. Could you be more specific about him being the "cussing" pastor? What has he said? Has he dropped F bombs and S bombs during his sermons? I think it's one thing to say a bad word (F, S) in a moment of anger or surprise, but another when you intentionally say it during a sermon, which is supposed to encourage and teach the people of God.
What if I change it up a little. I'm sure there are male pastors out there who struggle at times and have watched online porn in a moment of weakness. But what if a pastor deliberately showed a 5-minute clip of porn during his sermon to illustrate a point?
If he actually says cuss words during his sermons, I think it's unfortunate. Having a heart for God is one thing, exercising poor judgment is another.
@franksabunch@xanga - Great points. I don't know him, but I was thinking the same thing.
I wish I had more time to read down thru the comments, but I have to get to work soon. Just some cursory thots for the moment. golai@xanga said; "I do believe that you should never speak with the intention of offending anyone." We are to walk(live) as Jesus walked, & He offended people quite often with what He said, but it was primarily the 'content' of what He said & not the language per se that upset people. To be honest, in this cultural environment, people need to be offended to challenge them to think!!
The apostle Paul said in I Corinthians 9:19-23, "I have become all things to all people that...I might save some." Look closely at Paul says here. He is talking about penetrating the culture where people live in order to communicate message of Christ. So often believers expect others to come to their level in order to share Christ's message, but Christ expects us to go to them. That means getting down to where they are. I may not endorse that Mark is doing, but I understand at least to some extent he, and others must reach down & that may very well mean that we accomodate our approach which others may even consider offensive (Paul certainly did!!! And so did Jesus). LAW--
@kayla_fersherr@xanga - What you wrote about sounds exactly like a book I recently read: Love Jesus, Hate Church by Steve McCranie. It goes after the apathy found in so many churches and encourages us to be controversial, like Jesus was. I would highly recommend it.