For a couple of years, my brother and I attended a Catholic elementary school. When we first enrolled in the school, he was in kindergarten and I was in seventh grade.
From the beginning of my attendance there, I noticed that the school's administration took prayer time very seriously. During morning announcements, lunch time announcements, and end-of-the day announcements, the principal asked the entire school to join her in prayer as she recited the Our Father, the Hail Mary, or the Act of Contrition over the intercom.
During our second year at the school, my first grade brother and his friend were chatting during end-of-the-day prayer time. Obviously, this did not go over well with my brother's teacher. Because my brother and his friend chose to talk while the rest of the school recited the Our Father, the teacher asked both boys to write the Our Father twenty times as punishment.
When my mother came to pick us up from school that day and my brother told her about the situation, she was astounded and decided to speak to my brother's teacher about the idea of writing a prayer for punishment. My mother told the teacher that regardless of the fact that the boys were talking during prayer time, they should never be forced to write the prayer as a punishment. Instead, she said that she would have my brother write, "I will not talk during prayer time."
My mother further argued that, as a young child, my brother would come to associate the Our Father with a punishment rather than the central prayer of our faith that it was meant to be. She added that prayer time in our household was a special and sacred time, and she objected to the fact that the teacher was going to ruin that special time by associating it with punishment. Despite my mother's argument, the teacher did not back down, stating that rules are rules, and the protocol for a student who talks during prayer time is to write the prayer as punishment.
Eventually, my mother backed down, but she still did not want my brother to write the prayer multiple times. My mother and brother split the work, and my mother wrote the prayer several times for my brother.
What do you think about the idea of writing a prayer as punishment? Do you think my mother should have backed down on her argument, or should my brother have handed in a paper on which "I will not talk during prayer time?" was written twenty times?
Comments (43)
I like the idea of little kids knowing prayers, but its kind of ridicious making them write it twenty times.
I dont really have a problem with them having the kids write the prayer as a punishment especially if it is a set rule for the school but I think writing it 20 times for a first grader is pretty crazy. Its not exactly the shortest prayer. Maybe 5 times would have been more approiate. I also see where your mom was comming from and I think as a teacher I would have taken the punishment she suggested at least into consideration... parents really know the best way to punish their own child. Hopefully your brother learned his leason so he didnt have to put himself in that situation again ;)
That's awful. No.
your mom did your brother a huge disservice by doing his punishment for him. all he's learned is that he never has to do a punishment if Mommy doesn't like it. not the best message to send, IMHO. there were plenty of times when my mom disagreed with me being punished at school. but she never tried to get me out of it.
LOL, that's brilliant, I would not have even thought of seeing considering how writing a prayer could make the prayer into a bad thing. if that teacher was the devil, that teacher is very cunning
You see it in movies, but I have never once been told to say 20 Hail Marys, or whatever amount, for my penance. Though I assume it happens? I also don't recall ever having to have to write prayers in school, and I have been Catholic schooled all the way through graduation from 2nd grade. I don't see it as a form of punishment, but I have been reminded plenty of times by my parents and teachers and parish priests that I need to pray due to those things I have done wrong; it often seems to go hand in hand with being trouble.
Prayer is a special time you spend with God. It should never be taught that it is a punishment to spend that time with God. So no, it should not be used as a punishment.
Catholicism is based on guilt, so this is what happens...
I don't really see why those questions are even there at the end, haha, who's gonna see this and be like "YES PRAYER SHOULD SUCK HARD"
i'm a fan of your mother.
Wow, writing the prayer 20 times sounds a little harsh for a first grader. I would agree to your mum's punishment of "I will not talk during prayer time".
As a mum myself, it would pain me to see my child go through 20 times of the prayer, but if the teacher insisted on it, then I'll have my child finish up the writing instead of helping.
wow, I agree with your mom totally. Truth is any Psychology major will tell you using such a punishment will indeed corolate the two things, punishment and prayer. Not a healthy start for a teacher trying to instill prayer as important to a young one.
hmm i don't think that it's right to do a kid like that... they should be able to know their prayers, but to have them strictly get punish for that.. i believe that is a wrongdoing.. i think later on that could cause them issues with you
Isn't there a Simpsons episode where Bart has to write on the board 100 times, "I will not waste chalk"?
I wonder what happened when the teacher had to pray, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." Apparently she wants God to make her write lines?
@Jazzyful@xanga - Catholicism is based on guilt, so this is what happens...
Are you Catholic? "Based on guilt." What does that even mean? Can you even come close to rationally justifying your comment?
It has been a practice of the Catholic church to repeat prayers for penance. I believe the idea was to drum the prayer into your brain least you forget it. So, to hear of this, is not surprising at all.
BUT that does not make it right either. If the mom wants to stay within the church then she did what was right. But I would not have done that- but then I have not been in the Catholic Church for many years.
There are verses about praying multiple times and amazingly enough, it comes just before the Lord's Prayer. Check this out:
KJV Matthew 6:7-9
7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
I'm not much on the Message Translation but this seemed good enough to make the point:
7- "The
world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant.
They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques
for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This
is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what
you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply.
Like this: Our Father in heaven,
When it comes down to it- you can either go by God's Word or you can go by the Catholic Church- you pick!
@enyas_mom@xanga - that's not even the point. The point is that child is going to associate the prayer with punishment and start to view God as a angry dictator rather than a loving and forgiving father. Writing down "I will not talk during prayer time" would have been much more appropriate.
@scrambledmegzntoast@hardestlevel - People who require things like this are using guilt to put kids in line rather than calmly and politely explaining why it would be better for them not to talk during prayer. They make it seem as though God is ready to strike lightning bolts down at us for not praying. A better way to help the kids understand would be to use analogies for their own lives and show how much Jesus went through to save us so that we should honor Him with our prayers. Even writing down "I will not talk during prayer" would be better than this sort of mind control. If these kids aren't already saved then I can almost gaurantee you they will grow up to hate Catholicism and Christianity.
@headlikahole@xanga - Whats not even the point that I thouht 20 times was too much... that I personaly would have taken the mothers suggestion at least into consideration... or that I said that mothers know what punishment is best for their children? I had to repiditively write down prayers for latin class to learn them and I dont associate prayer with punishment and I dont think this child will either. I think this child will associate talking during prayer time at school as a bad thing that results in punishment. And people and/or the Catholic church who use these techniques are not using GUILT to put kids in like... they are using a PUNISHMENT. Just because you yourself dont aggree with the punishment dosent mean that its not a form of punishment. I think a lot of people need to learn more about Catholicism before they go and trash it. Honestly its really not very Christian to go and judge other people or their beliefs...
I personally don't think writing any one thing repeatedly helps. I had a teacher in the seventh grade who made us write multiple copies of the preamble to the Constitution. It's a waste of time and it makes the writer hate what is being written. I believe it would have been more appropriate to have the first grader write a simple statement on why prayer is important, or the purpose of being quiet when we pray, or why we need to treat God with respect, or something like that. But the mom was wrong to pit the child against the teacher like that. How would she feel if someone tried to undermine her parental authority?
I don't agree with writing the prayer as punishment because it will corolate the prayer with punishment and it will make the child resist prayer because of it (in theory anyway). I agree with your mom about writing 'I will not talk during prayer' instead of 'Our Father'. I would have had him write what your mom suggested and if his teacher didn't like it, I would have went to the person above her.
@Amythist_Malaise@xanga - I like that idea too.
Your mom rocks and I totally agree with what she did :)
Wow writing a prayer as punishment is terrible and wrong. The teacher just should have told your brother that he shouldn't talk during prayer time because it's inappropriate and that be it.
Hey! Consider this: Not one of us should by any means report to God by way of prayer that the teacher is abusing us in the way they would be, if they insisted that prayer should be at all forced or made public. No! That they should be punished by way of prayer alone is abuse. It is also inviting further punishment of what was said in the prayer itself, about the teacher, who is obstinate about having her way. (She was just on a power trip). ...Love, Sande
@headlikahole@xanga - I am not making any determination on what a teacher did 30 years ago based upon a blog entry. My point to"jazzyful"is that the statement "Catholicism is based on guilt, so this is what happens..." is foolish and ignorant. The Catholic Church has over a billion members. To say that the Church, with 2000 years of history and founded by Jesus Christ Himself, is based on a simple human emotion? It cannot be justified, but it would be funny to see her try. By the way, all people are different. You cannot "guarantee" anything. Not even "almost".