by mr maplecontinued from Is There a Reason Behind Everything Bad That Happens? 
Madness and chaos. That was what disease seemed to me, a medical student struggling for the first time with life and death in the hospital wards. Kind and generous patients suffered from horrific fates while the malingering and malicious fed off of the system's generosity without punishment. The hospital was a new and disorienting place in which the old rules, the old Reasons no longer seemed to apply. Who lived and who died was less a function of morality as it was of biological processes, lab tests, missing information, and elements of luck. In a world where so much was at stake, only the new reasons, the Evidence of hard data and tight correlations mattered. Even basic assumptions about standards of care were challenged and occasionally overthrown by the latest and greatest studies, and many reasonable, long-standing associations between health and disease disintegrated under closer scrutiny.
My own shift in perspective was subtle at first. I wasn't able to articulate my discomfort in the new environment until one of my friends began using "evidence based arguments" for everything. He would launch into political discussions with others and pepper them with the question, "Where's your reference? Show me the study." It was an irritating thing to do in the context of otherwise casual conversation, but the inflammatory nature came from the realization that most of what we say on a daily basis is complete bulls**t and superstition. We speculate and make conclusions based on very little evidence because that is how we must deal with the complexities of daily life; we ignore and deny how uneducated and sporadic our decisions are because we would otherwise lose the confidence to act and survive from one moment to the next.
Something in me hardened. My faith in God, the Ultimate Reason, which had once been so strong, began to settle for lesser things. God may count the hairs on your head, but that number will be exactly zero once your chemotherapy is started. You can pray for a miracle, but if we don't amputate that leg tomorrow you might lose your life. Praying is good, but praying 20 hours outside in the snow is not; please restart your bipolar medications or we won't let you out of here.
And so prayer, something I once loved to do, became more an act of desperation and superstition than one of faith. To some degree it was because I didn't know what to pray for, but really it was because I was tired of being disappointed.
Curiously enough, I began knocking on wood and crossing my fingers. I started avoiding words like "quiet" and "slow". At first I thought it strange that sensations of powerlessness and futility would inspire superstition and stifle prayer, but then I realized I was tired of bullsh**ting and really just wanted to admit that I didn't know I didn't know I didn't know.
to be continued.
Comments (16)
You can believe in evidence based practice AND faith AND intuition AND authoritative sources. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Is Revelife turning into AtheistLife?
@musterion99@xanga - I'm not an atheist by any means; just simply describing a very human struggle with a very human world. I didn't realize vocalizing doubts was such a non-Christian thing to do (though I do admit the tone of this is very... down.)
I think about it in a more universal as well as eternal standpoint.
Disease - Understanding disease means understanding that most pathogens are not designed solely for the sake of human infection (although some are). Most micro-life is completely and utterly essential to our ecosystems and environment. Disease is some of the leading killers of certain species of animals, and its the only thing that might keep their population in check. Bacteria cause toxins, but detoxify more. Did you know archaebacteria remove 300 million tons of methane from the earth every year? Without them, life as a whole could not even exist. So in that sense, these "diseases" are in actuality, necessary to a point.
Death - Again, God needs a way for animals, as well as humans to get off the earth or else we would've already hit the population limit of the earth long ago. Is death necessary in this sense? Yes. The question is - "Is death worth it?" Eternally, all humans "live" forever. Death should not be any more of a factor into our faith than we make it.
@golai@xanga - If this is the case, then the development of vaccines and antibiotics clearly stands against God's will.
@CelestialTeapot@xanga - Not really. I kill animals to eat for nuritment. Things die for the survival of others. Viruses die for the survival of others. My cells in the body die for the survival of others, I someday must die so that others may survive.
Regardless if one believes in the death and resurection of Jesus, I think it shows a beautiful metaphor that death must occur in order for something new to be born.
The invention of vaccines and antibiotics is just man modifying his environment. Just like when fire was discovered so instead of evolving more hair we now warm ourselves by clothing, heat.
@mrmaple - I empathize with you, it took me 3 years of watching people die/grieve and morn before I was comfortable with saying "Blessed be the name of the Lord, even in suffering, even when there is pain, Who gives and takes away."
@kipahni@xanga - Sure, then God created the AIDS for self-replicating viruses to pick off his chosen people. Don't forget the Black Death and the Ebola Virus. What about Flu Epidemics?
@CelestialTeapot@xanga - I don't think God directly created any of those things, they evolved like all organisms do. Because man is able to adapt to his surroundings unlike any other species we are able to find "cures" for such viruses. But as a result of our tinkering- the virus is able to respond and evolve itself. I am tenative to say that people are cured of anything thing when involving Viruses because viruses are not really alive to begin with so how can you kill what is half alive? And for example small pox vaccine is rarely if ever used in the states because of "heard immunization" it doesn't mean that a strain of it exhists out there just buying time till it evolves into something more complex. If there is one thing we can always count on with evolution is that given enough time any organism will grow more complex.
Now you will meet some Christians who will say something like "As a result of Adam and Eve sinning that is why disease and death and pain and suffering" But What I have studied and when I read it I just see that they "suffer death" does that mean they were immortal prior to? could be but I find it more convincing that it was a spiritual death- that Adam and Eve choosing to gratify their own needs instead of turning to God they suffered a breech in intamacy with Him.
So where does the disease and death come in? Instead of writing a huge post on this I will just suggest two books
Sex and the Origons of Death by William R. Clark- explains how cell death evolved
Darwins Gift by Francisco Ayala- How disease and death can exist when God is suppose to be benevolant and powerful
This is an important topic and one I feel many of us miss some key points. I've been in many discussions where the fundamental equations are presumed to be:
Good God = All Blessings (aka "no evil")
Strong Faith = Answered Prayer (the way I want it)
Let me stick with disease, just as a talking point.
A) We all die. We all know this, yet it continues to take us by surprise when we are faced with sudden and unexpected deaths, such as that of children. Likewise, there is a perception that life ending diseases can/should be stopped by prayer. The reality is that many (most) will not. They are the last turn on our road to immortality (which, ironically, many Christians seem loathe to face). What does God accomplish with long, fatal diseases?
1) Time for the person to get their life in order.
2) Time for others to prepare for death and to say "good-bye"
3) An opportunity to put our faith where our mouth is - we can show others how to "die with faith."
There are others.
B) Our bodies are subject to genetic and biological patterns. Again, we all know this, yet we somehow continue to think we've done something "wrong" when a child is born with Down Syndrome or a young person is stricken with MS or MD or a stroke or diabetes. The reality is that (as Red Green would say) "We are all in this together."
What does God accomplish with debilitating diseases?
1) Teach us how to love sacrificially
2) Provide opportunity for the spirit to shine brighter than the flesh
3) Remind us how fragile and fleeting our lives really are (i.e. keep us humble)
There are others.
I could go on, but I think my points are made. I will close by saying I DO believe the Lord does intervene via prayer, on occasion. This would a point for all evil things - it provides us an opportunity to pray and an opportunity for God to show a great miracle of healing and redemption.
Some suffering is a result of ignoring basic law. Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap Galatians 6:7 If we break the laws of the land, if caught to suffer punishment. If we break the law of health, we will get sick.
some suffering tis the result of accident or natural disaster.
Some suffering results from the power in the hands of evil man.
Some suffering is a result of god's remedial judgment.
Some suffering is the result of dedication to Jesus Christ.
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation. for when he is tried. he shall recieve the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that Love him James 1:12
To paraphrase author Octavia E. Butler, prayer comforts you and strengthens your resolve, or it does nothing.
Faith is a true thing. If a person's faith is based on error, God will correct the error if the disciple is sincerely seeking true faith.
I didn't know I didn't know I didn't know...
This is an excellent, though scary position to be in for God can now go to work.
@CelestialTeapot@xanga - That makes no sense at all. I didn't say that the diseases and death inherently were purely good and that anything opposing them would be against God - only that they weren't all bad, and maybe even necessary.
Its the same sense as "God created gravity to keep things from flying off the earth, so don't be mad at gravity when its hurts you." Not necessarily meaning that using rockets to counteract gravity would be against God's will, if you know what you're doing then rockets are fine. Its when you fall off of that rocket when problems arise. So, gravity isn't bad, but neither necessarily are rockets that work against gravity. Falling then, can be "bad" in a sense, while gravity remains good.
Death and disease came because we sinned. That lets us know how much we need/needed a Savior. I'm happy that this life isn't the end. "By His stripes we are healed". Eventually, maybe not untill our next life, we will be made whole and live forever with God if we are saved.
@mrmaple - The reason I asked that is there's a new Revelife post written by an atheist.