@Ork58@xanga - THIS! best reply yet. you can claim to veil (a made up verb btw) for all sorts of reasons, but there's always that sneaky little reason that you're doing it to feel more holy. so that you can feel more holy than, say, my girlfriend who let's her hair down. who wears *GASP* shorts and tank tops. maybe she even shows her toes!

some things in the bible are PERIOD SPECIFIC. considering it is a MAN who is writing about how to repress WOMAN, and since it's in the bible the women actually think they WANT to be repressed, it's all very sexist. you're imposing restrictions on yourself because you have to follow everything to the letter, even when it's not meant for that. you gloss over the fact that even unveiled woman can go to heaven *GASP AGAIN*.

@Ork58@xanga - actually Yeshua (Jesus) picking and eating like He did on the sabbath did not break the Torah. He broke the Talmud which is the added on Man (rabbi) made rules. HE broke rules made by man but not rules made by G-d.

Had He broken the Rules made by G-d then He would not have been the spotless lamb of G-d without blemish. HE would have had blemish then and his death would have meant NOTHING. It would have been pointless had he sinned.

While you may be technically correct, you are missing the bigger picture. This is the challenge that Jesus has while here on His earthly miinstry. He constantly tried to get people to see the bigger picture, not get hung up in the minutia and details. That was the common fault of the Pharisees and Sadducees, they were so concerned about following the letter of the law they forgot or ignored the intent or spirit of the law. 

Jesus' behavior caused people around him (in the picking grains on the Sabbath issue) to believe He was violating the laws of Sabbath. His teaching was that Sabbath was made for man, not the other way around. Jesus whole ministry was a new way of thinking and interacting with God. His human life and earthly ministry was the fulfilment of the O.T and the ten commandments. He pointed out by example the fallacy of their beliefs, and that however well intentioned, they were still wrong. The idea of covering a womans head was as much societal as it was religious.

Do you really believe that a woman, who prays to God through Jesus, confesses that she is a sinner and needs His forgiveness and salvation, (and is granted this gift) will not be allowed in heaven because her head was not covered? Can you honestly say you believe that?

Jesus did all sort of things that were controversial in His ministry while on earth. That is what enraged the Pharisees and Sadducees so much. They really, sincerely, thought they had it right. They thought they had the corner on the Truth, and that their way of seeing things was the only way. 

Remember, God comes to man in a way and form that man can understand and comprehend. Moses saw a column of fire, a burning bush, etc. The Law tells the tales of mans interaction with God in a corporate form, not an individual personal relationship with God. That did not occur until Jesus' presence. The OT portrays Gods interactions with His chosen people in a group fashion. The NT portrays Gods interaction with individual people through the person of Jesus, in a one-on-one fashion. Jesus teaches us that we have a direct connection to God through Him, we need no intercessor. Jesus was the intercessor, and He eternally cemented that position through His death and resurrection. This was also demonstrated by the tearing of the cloth, from top to bottom, surrounding the Holy of Holies in the Temple at the time Jesus was crucified and resurrected.

Too many times people get hung up on the minutia and forget the larger lessons Jesus taught us by example and parable. Jesus often used stories that the people of that day and age could relate to. That is why he often talked about sheep and sheperds, farmers and farming, ranching and cattle/animal raising, fishing/fishermen.  I am sure if Jesus ministry while on earth would have been in an area like Alaska or Northwest Territories, there would have been stories relating to polar bears and Eskimos, ice fishing and hunting.

If Jesus were to appear here on earth with us today, He would come and talk in a way we can understand, in our own native languages, and give us examples that relate to our daily lives so we can understand His teachings.

There are many paths into Heaven. Different ages and civilizations at different eras throughout history have encountered God in one way or another. Do you really think God would condemn all the Stone Age people to eternal damnation and the flames of hell because they never had a chance to know Jesus? Or the Aborigines, who ate most of the missionaries who brought the Gospel? Even Jesus told us "I have sheep of which you  know not".  This opens the door to other pathways into the eternal presence of God.

The Bible is a compilation and record of God's interaction with mankind, through the Jewish people, and eventually through the person of Jesus. We see in the stories how salvation is extended to all peoples (Gentiles) 

The teachings we need to get along with each other, to serve God and fulfil the two greatest commandments are included in the Bible. We are to read the Bible for inspiration, not literally, for many of the writings were fiction to start with. Wise sayings and parables from over 4,000 B.C. and appear in other pre-historic writings are what make up most of Proverbs. Fantasy and drama, like Daniel and Revelation, give a message that good triumphs over evil in the end, and that despite everything evil (the Devil, Beelzebub, whatever-you-want-to-call-it-this-week) throws at us, in the end, God triumphs and reigns supreme, and we are to be with Him in His glory eternally. Depending on your particular beliefs, the Intertestamental literature gives great insight into Jewish rituals and rites, including the start of the Menorah in the Maccabees, the stories of Jesus as a child turning clay into birds, and other sorts of events (Infancy Gospel of Thomas)  Even the Pseudepigriphal  literature has some value, althought it really doesn't shed much new information that isnt already repeated in the OT or Apocrypha.

I see by your site you like to use the old Hebrew names for God, or "G-d" as you seem to like to say. Adonai, El, El Shaddai, El Elyon, Avinu, etc. Again, what is the point? Unless you are learning ancient languages, why use them? Those are merely titles. YHWH is the Tetragrammon, the true name of God as revealed in the Law, or Torah, or Tanakh, whichever you choose to use.  There is no magic in using the ancient terms. Do you really think God is so shallow that when we cry out to Him He won't hear us unless we know the magic words or name to use? God is infinitely more wise and compassionate and understanding than we can possibly comprehend.

It seems to me that those who insist on using archaic languages and terms only confuse others, that they somehow possess the "magic miracle words and terms" that will conjure up the direct connection with God. Jesus would probably be ROFL with that whole idea. When He was here on His earthly ministry, he used all sorts of terms for God. Daddy, Father, Teacher, God, etc. Those are titles, much like you respond to "Mom" or "Sis" or "daughter". Jesus teachings were not to confuse or dismay the people, but to educate and enlighten them. Seems he delighted in messing with the Pharisees, tweaking them about their silliness and piety. Please don't fall into the same trap. 

Maybe I'm unusual, but my initial reaction to seeing that set of pictures was, "Look, a bird."

@Ork58@xanga - Your my hero

Well, this is an interesting post. To all those that think that all women are repressed because they are veiled I would like to make a point. I wear a veil ... following I Corinthians 11 and I feel completely liberated in my heart because of Jesus. On the other hand those of you that are following all the fads of hair fashion are considered just as repressed if you allow this dictate your style. Their is a ditch on either side. I do not judge you for not wearing a veil and I don`t feel judged by anyone because I wear one. I believe if we have the love of Jesus in our hearts..... that shines... veiled or not.

go ahead kristen do what brings you closer to the holy. all of you naysayers are the reason why christianity puts a bad taste in my mouth. bickering and nit picking and hating. way to be like jesus

It's ridiculous to hate/fear that. I mean. Americans started out with those little head covers in the beginning to start with!

"Man looks on the outside appearance but God looks upon the heart"
No hate- no fear- just a desire to see it done for the right reasons- not by force or by ritual but out of love for God- if that's not the reason- its a waste of cloth!

And from what I've heard from the Pres. of the USA, that is their biggest concern on a Federal level.
They know that a lot of cultures that push covering, also push attitudes that are unhealthy for women.
How they are dealing with it is up for debate but that is their concern and it is a good one.

People are afraid of what they don't understand.  And Christians sadly aren't very in tune with their religion either.  There is nothing wrong with women of any faith covering out of modesty or because their religion tells them to.  Many women CHOOSE of their own will to cover their hair, face or body out of modesty.  Only immoral women and an immoral society thinks it is repressive for women to cover.  I choose to cover my hair because I want men to respect me for me and not for my body.  Covering my hair doesn't hinder me from communicating and if people can't get past a cloth on your hair or your face then they are losers in my opinion and ignorant idiots.  The Bible says to cover your hair that it is a "woman's shining glory".  The Bible also says that if a woman has long hair and doesn't cover it she should shave it all off! 

I'm not oppressed by covering my hair.  Men respect me for me and not my looks.  I don't have to dress sexy in order to get a job or get a pay raise.  My husband doesn't force me to cover. I do it of my own free will and choice and because it's a command from God Almighty.  I'm not less of a human because I cover. I choose not to interact with society of my own free will but that is how I've always been. I've never liked interacting with people.  What is wrong with wanting to cover myself and reveal myself only to my husband?  I don't have to "conform" to immorality or dress like a whore to be a free woman.  I have a voice and can voice my opinion. I'm not chained to my house and banned from being outside.  I'm in college earning a degree.  I plan on continuing my education to get my B.A. and eventually my Master degree.  I graduated high school at the top 50 of my class in June 2006.  I was Saltatorian in 11th grade.  I'm in no way "less intelligent" then a woman who doesn't cover.  I choose modesty over confirming to Western society's views of how women should look.  I'm a free woman and a free human being. 

For myself, I figure do what you want within the law. I'm all for the new French approach regarding covering the face. I like to see who is walking towards me on a lonely street.

You cant make huge presumptions of the entire western world like that!
.