Wednesday, 01 July 2009
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Are Mormons Christians?
I just graduated from a Christian high school. In that school, I had three friends who were Mormons. They considered themselves Christians, but from everything that I had been taught, Mormons are not Christians but only people who use some of the Bible sometimes. I noticed that these people were a lot nicer then a lot of the other people at my school and also seemed to be more serious in their relationship with Christ.I made friends with one of them so I started asking him what he believes in regard to Jesus and God. He told me that He believed that Jesus died on the cross to die for our sins and that God raised Him to life on the third day. He said that He has accepted Jesus as his personal saviour and believes that God raised Him from the dead.
This boggled me. I wasn't sure if I could say he was a Christian or not because he was a Mormon, but he seemed like he was right on. The only difference to the story of the cross is that he does not believe in the trinity. He believes that God the Father, the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit are three different beings and are not one.
Are Mormons Christians?
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- From: toeknee2step@xanga
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Comments (289)
I'm sorry, but I believe the answer is no. Mormons are some of the loveliest people in this country, but good morals do not save you. I believe that belief in the Trinity and in the divinity of Jesus as God's Son and equal with God (which Mormons don't believe) are intrinsic to salvation. I also believe accepting the authority of Scripture is vital.
If they were Christians...they would not be called Mormons.
...this is like asking if Catholics are Christians. I know a few people of various Christian denominations who don't believe Jesus "rose from the dead" and that he stayed dead. Does that make them any less Christian than a Mormon not believing in the trinity?
There are actually quite a few differences between what Mormons believe and what Christians believe. I actually took a class at the Mormon Institute when I was in college to learn more about whtat they believe. It really does come down to terms. For example, in Newton's physics means one thing while in Einstein's physics, it means something else. I think that Mormons might talk about things like God, the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, salvation, grace, etc., but if you really study what they believe, it seems to me that these terms don't mean the same thing to them that they do to most Christian denominations.
@Power_Ranger_Freak@xanga - exactly
From what I have studied they seem to have a lot of similarities to Christianity, but their doctrine does not exactly line up. But then again not everyone holds to all Protestant doctrine within Protestant denominations and not every Catholic believes every piece of Catholic doctrine. So who knows. A Yale Professor named Harold Bloom claims that their roots are more true to ancient gnosticsm rather then Christianity. I was pretty convinced by his argument.
@oeshpdog2@xanga - So then Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants, and Anglicans also can't possibly be Christian, amirite?
@Power_Ranger_Freak@xanga - yeah I agree. Excellent point
I would have to say no. I think Mormons have a different take on baptism. I know they baptize people who have passed away to ensure their souls go to heaven (or something like that?) and that they believe a lot in families.
I wasn't able to quite understand their beliefs though :/
I think you have to take things on a very simple approach. What is Christianity on it's simplest term. Believing/Belief in Christ? Well, from what I know about Mormonism, they have a strong belief in Christ. Wouldn't that be the defining line in Christianity? Believing in Christ?
Sure, they have different practices and other nuances within the religion itself, but their main belief is in Christ. I don't see how that would not make them at least somewhat Christian. Logically, you can't be 50% Christian. No matter what percentage of Christian you are, you're still Christian.
Did you ask him any of his other beliefs?
Just ask them the following questions:
1. How many gods are there?
2. What are their view of the Scripture in regards to authority?
Here is the thing.
A new Mormon convert would answer the following way:
1. How many gods are there?
There is just one God.
2. What are their view of the Scripture in regards to authority?
Highest authority
They give Christian answers because they don't know any better.
A good Mormon who has been properly Mormonized (i.e. temple pass, mormon underwear, baptizing for the dead, etc.) would answer the following:
1. How many gods are there?
There are three Gods, Father, Son and Spirit that form to combine one Godhead. Technically there are four Gods when you include the Father's wife.
2. What are their view of the Scripture in regards to authority?
The Bible is corrupt literature and the translations further corrupt it hence why we only read from the KJV. The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price are all God inspired.
In my immediate and personal experience (i.e. my brother is a recently converted Mormon), there is a huge disconnect in theology and doctrine between new converts and actual in-the-system Mormons.
I've had a few Mormon friends, I dated a Mormon girl (she's a terrible Mormon though), and studied Mormonism quite a bit both in high school and college.
Here's the deal: @Power_Ranger_Freak makes a good point. Also, I've known Mormons who know very very little about the theology that separates Mormons from Christians. It's key to remember that we are all wrong about some things (maybe most things) and so we cannot assume we have perfect theology. But there are facts to consider in answering this question.
1. Different Holy Texts (Christians do not support the Pearl of Great Price or the Book of Mormon just as they don't support the Qur'an)
2. Different theological views. I for one do not believe, as a Christian, that Jesus showed up in America to minister to the Native Americans or that I will be in charge of a planet one day and produce spirit babies. But that's also because I don't support exclusively Mormon literature.
3. Different history. The difference between the two historically is all found in the time after Christ. Mormonism is fairly new compared to other popular belief systems.
Are they the same? No. Does that mean all Mormons are positively not followers of Jesus Christ and seeking first his kingdom? No. Does it mean they are influenced to a degree by false teachers? Yes. Are we? Probably.
@HeartOfPandora@xanga - Have you ever thought about that? I am being sincere by asking that and not trying to be disrespectful. The Book of Acts records that these new followers of Christ or the Way were "First called Christians at Antioch." Few people like to talk about what that name means and represents, but it the name given to those new converted believers. All of these other names came after a person devised their own creed etc. For example...can anyone find the name "Lutheran" in the Bible? Or even "Catholic?" Men and women died because they were called Christian...not some of the names you see these days. History shows when all of the other names came into existence including the name "Mormon."
Mormons are Christians. They just have different Christian beliefs than others. Just like Jehovah's Witnesses. Just like Lutherans vs. Baptists vs. Methodists vs. Catholics vs. Eastern Orthodox. If you consider all of these denominations Christian, then you need to consider ALL of these denominations Christian.
@ChozSun@xanga - Great points.
@james_pinato@xanga - That is the thing, they do not believe that in the gospel of God and the all-sufficient work of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection from death.
Part of their doctrine is that they must work hard in order to achieve Godhood just as the Father, who was once man on another planet, lived a good life, was able to achieve Godhood and formed this planet.
@ChozSun@xanga - exactly. I was going to try to hit on some of the extraterrestrial type beliefs in my comment, but I don't know enough specifics to do them justice.
@james_pinato@xanga - you're right on, I think. It depends on the definition of christianity BUT TO ME Christianity in the most basic sense means that you believe in Christ. So I don't care what denomination you claim to be or not to be, if you Believe in Christ, you are a Christian.
Post: I just caught the tail end of the post:
"God the Father, the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit are three different beings and are not one."
Ah nice, "Beings" By his testimony, he just admitted to three different Gods.
Yet, the Word of God adamantly declares:
Isaiah 44:6 (ESV) Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Isaiah 46:9b (ESV) ...for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
Isaiah 45:21b (ESV) ... Was it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.
Hosea 13:4 (ESV) But I am the Lord your God from the land of Egypt; you know no God but me, and besides me there is no savior.
I mean I can beat this point down all day. I got time.
@Pickwick12@xanga - Oh my, I can go all day about extraterrestial beliefs.
It is not so much all the alien/scifi beliefs I am worried about but it is the fact they believe that they can be exalted as gods themselves if they work really hard in this life and have lots of kids.
To my understanding, Mormons believe that Jesus is only one god. They say he achieved godhood, but wasn't always God. They also think that we (humans) can do this too. I would say that denying that Jesus has always been God and affirming that humans can become gods makes for some seriously flawed theology.
I think it depends on who you ask as I am not sure there is an agreed upon definition of "Christian" among Christians. However, I find it difficult to believe that God would disqualify someone because he didn't believe a certain way about the trinity since any understanding of the trinity is technically conjecture.
For example - Let's say that a particular doctrine is correct but someone has an incorrect understanding but is a sincere follower of Christ and that has resulted in loving God and others in tangible ways and consistently - how could you say that person is not a Christian. I can't imagine God is thinking "I can't claim her as one of mine because she didn't believe correctly about the trinity - she had the other stuff right but not that - too bad"
I believe that a Christian is someone who is committed to following the way of Jesus and that there are more than one set of beliefs that fall under the category of Christian.
Take a look at my page. The main thing that we believe is that God is the Father of our Spirits. Jesus Christ is His Son and it is important to recognize how separate they are if we are to know them (See John 17:3). How are they one? They are one in purpose and unity: to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. There is an entry I wrote entitled "The Need For a Restoration" that I would encourage EVERYONE to read.
What separates us from the rest of mainstream Christianity? We are the only Church that recognizes divine authority and has the same organization that Christ set up when He was on the earth. We also reject the creeds that were written up hundreds of years after the resurrection. Why? Because they are non-biblical. We also recognize the fact that God has not stopped speaking. The need for prophets and Apostles of Jesus Christ and additional scripture is still there.
@a_single_raindrop@xanga - It's baptism for the dead by proxy. Even the Ancient Christians practiced that and Paul rebuked the Corinthians for practicing it even though they thought the resurrection wasn't true.
@Power_Ranger_Freak@xanga -
@Pickwick12@xanga
@ChozSun@xanga -
@james_pinato@xanga - A lot of non-Christians believe in Christ as a historical figure. That's not sufficient for salvation. And a person can't be somewhat Christian--it's all or none. But being a Christian requires that you believe that Christ (aka God the Son), fully divine, fully human, and without sin, died for our sins as justification for God not giving us the punishment that is the just result of sin (namely eternal separation from Him) and that we can do nothing to earn or ensure this salvation beyond our belief. If you don't believe that, you're not a Christian. And there are plenty of people who take on the Christian label without believing that, so you can't go by whether people say they are Christian or not.
But in the end, God is the only judge of who is saved. We can comment on specific beliefs, and we can define what being a Christian is (based on scripture, of course), but we can't make a determination about whether an individual is or is not a Christian if they claim to be.
Although I'm probably in the minority on this issue, I'd say 70% or more of people who profess to be Christians in all sects (Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, etc.) are not Christian. (I'd say 90% or more, but then I might get stoned, so I'll stick with the 70%+ figure). That percentage is probably higher among many groups that have beliefs in direct contradiction to the above description of what a Christian believes.
Mormons believe in Christ, and they believe that faith in Christ is required for salvation, but they believe it takes much more than that to be saved. Specifically, they believe that we are saved through Christ's atonement only if we obey the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. Faith in Christ (whatever they take that to mean) is only one of those. Faith in Christ, repentance, baptism, and laying on of hands are the first four steps of obedience, but they don't complete the job according to Mormons. You can only make a scriptural case for these beliefs if you selectively ignore significant passages of scripture.
Are Mormons Christians? Probably some of them, but I suspect that most Mormons who become Christians do so in conjunction with abandoning their church and concluding that the Book of Mormon is not scripture. Unfortunately, once you accept something outside of the Bible (whether it is a person or a book or an office) as a source of God-ordained authority that doesn't have to agree with the Bible to be correct, it's going to be very difficult to reach the truth as long as you remain subject to that alternate authority. Mormons aren't the only group to have that particular obstacle.