Tuesday, 30 June 2009

  • Bad Questions, Part I: Can I Do X and Still Be a Christian?

    Bad Questions We All AskIt's no secret - I like questions. Questions are the starting point of a path towards truth and knowledge. Questions and doubts, if addressed properly, have the capability to buttress our faith and knowledge of the world better than pretty much anything else. Fact is that the moment you think you have all the answers, you've just claimed to be God, and as soon as you stop asking questions you've just cut yourself off at the knee: incapable of ever moving on or growing.

    That said, there are some questions that I've seen asked a great number of times, and (contrary to what our grade school teachers told us) they are bad questions. This isn't an exhaustive list of bad questions, but these came to mind while I was thinking about writing this post.

    So, while questions, in general, are good things, there are exceptions, and these are some of them along with better alternative questions to ask:

    Can I do X and still be a Christian?

    This is one I've seen on Revelife a few times. It doesn't matter what X is--drinking alcohol, sex, gambling, dancing, seeing R-rated movies, eating potato chips, drinking soda, drinking water--the answer is yes.

    Yes! You can be a Christian who smokes. You can be a Christian even if you have sex outside of marriage. Yes, you can be a Christian even if you've murdered someone. Paul writes that, "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial." So yes, just because you engage in questionable activity X does not mean you are not a Christian.

    That said, let's not forget the second clause of that sentence. "Not everything is beneficial." Just because I can do something does not necessarily mean I should do something. I am perfectly capable of going to the grocery store and stealing someone's baby out of the shopping cart. That doesn't mean it's okay for me to do that or that I should start baby-stealing. Paul is just writing that even if I stole a baby, that would not mean I am not a Christian.

    So instead of asking "Can a Christian smoke cigarettes?" ask "Would it be glorifying to God if I were to smoke cigarettes?" (see verse 31). And ask, "Would my smoking cigarettes cause my brothers and sisters in Christ to stumble?" (verse 32). If something is not glorifying to God, then it is in our best interest to not do it. Being a stumbling block to someone else is decidedly not glorifying to God.

    When asking whether or not X is glorifying to God, it's always good to turn to scripture first. The Bible has a lot of good stuff in it. However, the Bible is not (neither is it meant to be) a comprehensive rule book that says "Do this in this situation and do that in that one." There are many things (e.g. smoking cigarettes) that aren't explicitly mentioned. In that case, look for similar things that the Bible does talk about. But not matter what, be honest with yourself: does having premarital sex really--and I mean really--bring you closer to God? If it doesn't, then you probably shouldn't do it, but even if you do, that doesn't change your status as "Christian."

    Okay...there are a couple exceptions: You can't really be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus Christ died on the Cross to pay for your sins and you can't be a Christian if you deny all authority of Scripture (since that's really the only place we can really learn about the teachings of Jesus). But you can drink, smoke, do drugs, play cards, dance, and even *gasp* vote Democrat and still be a Christian.

    How often do you ask yourself, "Can I do X and still be a Christian?"

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Comments (77)

  • Mangonese@xanga

    I've never asked myself if I could do x and still be Christian. I always knew I could.

    The problem is, other people seem to have a hard time grasping that idea.
  • xsteph_ox@xanga

    @tillseptemberends@xanga - First on, congratulations on joining the Christian family. You've made the most important decision of your life, and you did the right thing- to follow Jesus. As a baby Christian though, you need to be careful. Its really easy to misinterpret scripture and get the wrong idea, and it can be really hard to break away from your old lifestyle- it doesn't happen overnight, it will be hard at times and it does take a while but you will get there. I don't agree with this post because in the bible, it is clearly stated what is okay and what isn't. There are a few grey areas where it is hard to understand what is acceptable, like what is considered dressing modestly, if homosexuality is ok, or if you should celebrate christmas and easter like like santa and the easterbunny but there are some definate no's that will seperate you from God. It sounds like you have a good understanding of a few of the important issues, but I believe the author of this post was a bit confused. The truth is, you can't be a Christian if you choose to sin. You either choose to serve God or the devil, and the "fruit" of your lifestyle will show who you are really following. I'm not saying if you sin, you are automatically cast out of Gods church, but if you constantly choose to sin and don't look for repentance or understanding, than you were never really saved at all. I personally don't believe in the "once saved, always saved thing" which is hard for me, because my parents used to be really strong in their faith and now don't even go to church or pray before meals, although they still believe in God, and find it easy to water down the bible, so I'm not sure what will happen to them in the afterlife, which is really scary for me, but if you read the bible, you will see there is no happy ending for Judas, because when it really counted, he decided to follow money and the greed in his heart instead of God, and he commited the ultimate betrayal. There are many examples in the bible of people who eventually lost their relationship with God, like Solomon who God richly blessed throughout his lifetime, but in his old age ended up worshipping pagan Gods instead.


    I hope that helped, and I know you weren't really asking for my advice, but I want to make sure you aren't lead astray by someone I believe was spreading misinformation. He/she wasn't doing it purposefully, but its important to make sure what you are learning is the truth, because ignorance could be the difference between life and death in the final days of judgement, whether you will get into heaven or not, and being seperated from God is the worse punishment of all!


    I had alot of the same questions when I first became a Christian, but things become alot clearer as your faith gets stronger. Just keep reading your bible, asking questions and looking for answers, and God will take you to where you need to be. It might be a good idea to get a mentor from your church, ideally someone who is about four years older than you to take your questions to, and to join a homegroup/cell group meetings where you go over bible studies together and get a chance to talk about things that are confusing you. Older Christians in the church are a very good resource. Also as you start to read the bible, you make alot of connections between things and start to understand where God is coming from when he gives us certain commands which is great. Remember that the word is called the living bible because the holy spirit talks through it to teach us.


    Goodluck on your journey, I would love to see you grow in your faith :)
    Stephanie xox
  • LoBornlyte@xanga

    @Pass_the_Aura@xanga -  Well, if this is going to become a Catholic vs. Protestant controversy then I may have to demur (Titus 3:9 and all).


    Yes it does get down to that doesn't it.  But there is either A or B, not A and B.


    I think it does a grave disservice to Jesus to say that His spiritual presence in the world is "unreal, imagined, and mystical" because we can't see Him physically!


    It is not Christ's presence that is unreal.  It is our perception of it that is unreal.  God needed to come physically because man cannot treat with things spiritual.  What you are proposing in your comments is clearly impossible because it is beyond human capacity.  You also use Scripture to support the impossible.


    God is always close to us since he created us.  But that is not the question.  The question is how do we bring ourselves close to God.


    The answer to that question concerns correct doctrine.
  • sheepthatsblack@xanga

    @WasaiWarrior@xanga - While I would agree that Paul is in no way condoning sin, you're quoting different passages. I cited Corinthians 10, you just cited Corinthians 8. Like you, I don't mean to get technical, but these are two different trains of thought. Admittedly, full discussion of that verse should include Romans 6:1 ("What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?", NLT), but my intent of this post was not to analyze this verse so much as it was to analyze that genre of questions.

    @LoBornlite@xanga - "This post screams the question, "How
    am I to live my life?"  The answer to that question is that we are to
    live lives of virtue.  Virtue is excellence achieved through continued
    good works (habits).  So it is through our continued good works that we
    grow to embody excellence."

    Actually this post screams, "Stop Asking Bad Questions!" Originally I had three different types, but the powers that be (Revelife Editors) decided to break it up into three parts, so I can see where you got that mis-interpretation. And yes, our goal as Christians and as People should be to be Christlike...To be Perfect as God is Perfect. But experience teaches us that the harder we try and the more puritanical we are when judging ourselves the harder we fall and the quicker we undo whatever progress we may have made. Only when we surrender to God and admit that WE CANNOT be perfect, or even good, on our own will we ever start to grow.

    @Pass_the_Aura@xanga - I know this wasn't your intent, but I find that incredibly encouraging right now for several reasons...one is contained on my latest blog entry if you're interested (as is a sneak peak at parts 2 and 3 in this series). Thank you...again.

    @JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga - The reason I used smoking as an example here, and in fact as an example or metaphor for a large number of topics is because I was, until recently, a smoker myself, and it's become a "pet illustrator," if you will. That's the only reason...well...that and it does work as a good example of "gray areas." If they were still editable, I would change parts two and three to include examples of gluttony, envy, etc. just for you, but the powers that be divided this post up into three parts, none of which I can alter in any way at this point.
  • Pass_the_Aura@xanga

    @LoBornlite@xanga - OK.

    The part that sticks out to me though is this: "You also use Scripture to support the impossible." Exactly. I find that happens a lot with Scripture-- "impossible" concepts like the Virgin Birth and the Incarnation and the Trinity and so forth are clearly set out in Scripture (and by the Church as well; let's not get into that one). What this means then is that simply our understanding of "impossible" needs to be modified. To throw another Scripture out there-- "What is impossible with men is possible with God" (Luke 18:27). As followers of Jesus, we have to go with what He said-- and He should know!
  • Pass_the_Aura@xanga

    @sheepthatsblack@xanga - Some of my best ministry results are entirely oblique to my intent. It's very humbling.
  • LoBornlyte@xanga

    @Pass_the_Aura@xanga - What this means then is that simply our understanding of "impossible" needs to be modified.


    This is exactly the kind of imaginary thinking that I find so damaging to Christianity.  All of the "impossibles" that you commented on were the actions of God.  In Catholic parlance the actions of God are called mysteries.


    What is clearly impossible are those things that go beyond human capacity.  It is impossible for human beings to treat with the divine.  This is because we are subject to sin.  You used Scripture not to illucidate the nature of God, but to give to human nature that which it is not capable of.


    A tree does not walk.  A rock does not talk.  Man cannot fathom God.  Thus the need for sacraments.  Thus the need for the sacramental Church.  Thus the need for Church authority.
  • Pass_the_Aura@xanga

    @tillseptemberends@xanga - I think for a "pretty new Christian" you have a great understanding of how God's grace works (in spite of what some others seem to think...). Have you read Romans 8 or 1 John lately? You should.
  • Pass_the_Aura@xanga

    @LoBornlite@xanga - I never said man could fathom God. I said God is present with man. So did Jesus. That's one of the "actions of God" if you like-- to never leave us nor forsake us. I'm not sure what you're finding here to disagree with, because this is very clearly stated in Scripture, impossible or not.
  • sheepthatsblack@xanga

    @Theophilus166@xanga - Please see the paragraph after the baby-stealing one, "So instead of asking..."

    And also the verse I cited is two chapters and three trains of thought after the meat offered to idols.

    This post is in no way endorsing sinful behavior, it's my attempt to stop "Can a Christian Gamble?" and similar questions from being asked and asking better questions like "Does Gambling bring me closer to God," etc. Since murder does not bring one closer to God (I would assume, I don't know for sure since I've never done it), I've covered that base.
  • LoBornlyte@xanga

    @Pass_the_Aura@xanga -  I never said man could fathom God. I said God is present with man.


    But that is simply stating the obvious.  It is necessary for man to be able to reach out and touch God at will.  How is that done if man cannot fathom God?


    We are able to do it through sacraments.  Sacraments are physical signs under which man is able to reach out and touch God.  Baptism, Penance, Eucharist, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders, Annointing of the Sick are the sacraments given to us by Christ.


    And it is through our reaching out and touching God through his sacraments that we access the grace necessary for salvation and for the power to live a virtuous life.
  • WasaiWarrior@xanga

    @sheepthatsblack@xanga - ? I was only referring to chap 10, though for my own sake, I'd appreciate it if you could expand on what the two different trains of thought are between chapters 8 & 10; they seem pretty consistent to me. And, based on your other comments, I now see better what your intent was and think it's a great idea to move away from argument for the sake of argument and towards the question of "What glorifies God?"
  • Theophilus166@xanga

    @sheepthatsblack@xanga - I agree with what you said, I'm just saying that it's not quite what the text is saying. I realize you're not endorsing sinful behavior.  I'm just pointing out that when Paul says "everything is permissible" he's making a statement about the requirements of the law, not all behavior in general. 

    When deciding whether a behavior is acceptable, our first question should be: is the behavior is sinful. 

    Secondly, and this is the part I believe Paul is addressing, if it is NOT sinful, our second question should be: 'is it beneficial?"  by that I mean, "will I create division, or a stumbling block for someone else." 

    I just feel like you skipped the first question.  I realize that for the most part, it will lead us to the same place.  I.E. Murdering someone would obviously not pass the first test OR the second test.

    Your statement "Paul is just writing that even if I stole a baby, that would not mean I am not a Christian" is problematic because Paul isn't really even addressing that issue.  He's not assuring them of their salvation in this passage.  He's not really even addressing obviously sinful issues (i.e. stealing a baby), he's addressing areas of the law that believers are free from, yet it may not be entirely beneficial for them to ignore them entirely simply because it might bother other Christians.

    Again, I think you hit on a great point, and I think it's a great question to ask.  I'm just saying it's not an entirely accurate summary of what Paul was trying to communicate in that passage.
  • tillseptemberends@xanga

    @xsteph_ox@xanga -  Thanx for the advice ....Sorry I wasn't very clear in my post but actually I have been a christian close to 4 years. All I am going to say in response to your comment is that I respectfully disagree with some of the things that you are saying . I am not really wanting to get into it because I am horrible at debating ..lol. 

      Here is what I believe
      I go to a pretty conservative church (Grace Brethren) and am a bible believing christian (The bible is the inspired word of God) . I don't believe in Evolution at all and only in Creationism. I do believe that once a person is saved that they are always saved. I believe in predestination but am a bit confused about it. I believe that Christ died for our sins and that he defeated Satan. Thats just some of what I believe .


    I forgot to add that what I meant in my response  to the post is that we sometimes sin and even when we do Jesus forgives us. We just need to confess when we do. I wasn't saying that sin is good by any means ( It's Evil) but that we do , do it.  Realistically we all deal with sin no matter what it is. I try to live a godly life and it's hard because Satan and world likes the throw things in the way but I just have to remember that Jesus is with me the entire way plus I have a wonderful husband who's with me as I grow in christ. (He's been a christian since he was 4 years old )
  • tillseptemberends@xanga

    @Pass_the_Aura@xanga -  Thanx! I will totally look at those verses :) I am glad that you got what I was saying in my earlier comment...yay !
  • xsteph_ox@xanga

    @tillseptemberends@xanga - Oh ok. You've been a Christian about the same time as me :) I don't really believe in evolution either, and I think everything in the bible is inspired by God, although I'm not completely convinced by all the teachings in the books by Jesus' disciples because I think a few of them are just opinions from the time (ones about women anyway), so they can be hard to swallow. I would love to see how the bible would be written if it was brought out today, with the parables from todays world. Would it still be aimed at men? Would homosexuality still be frowned upon? Would women still be expected to stay home, cook, clean, look after the babies while their husbands went to church. Would it be okay for women to hold positions of power in the church? I don't know if any of these things would change, but I feel uneasy thinking about these things. One of my best friends is bisexual and thinks I'm very closeminded, but what the bible says is very imporant to me. I think if God was really against homosexuality there would be more written about it, and I think its kind of vague, but I don't think its a practice anyone should get involved in, but there isn't really enough in the bible to back myself up. I don't really know what kind of church I'm involved in- I'm not into the American style of church, I hear its very different to other parts of the world (even the Western world) but here people tend to be very welcoming and its not like liberals vs. conservatives- most Christians I know are against Abortion and on the fence about homosexuality. I think about half my friends believe in predestination. I don't believe in predestination, I think God knows every possible outcome and what is most likely to happen, and that there wouldn't be any point in him asking us to do things if he knew we wouldn't do them. I think some things are set in place in advance like Jesus coming back and the end times, but I think some things just happen. Satan has his own agenda too. I was gonna mention this before but I forgot to- I usually attend Penecostal or Baptist churches- I consider myself non denominational though because I think there are good and bad aspects to most churches and that its dangerous to pick and choose parts of the bible to live by- as far as I'm concerned, if its in the bible its important, so yes I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit like speaking in tongues, faith healing and prophesy but I don't think its neccessary. I believe the only way to God is through his son, as it says in the word, but I think there will be some exceptions, because God is fair, understanding and loving. I also believe water baptism is important but it won't prevent you from getting into heaven and that its important to do works to prove your faith, but not for reward, but to show God that its him you are following. I think alot of the original post was saying that it was okay to cross over into the grey area but I disagree as I said in my previous reply- you should stay as far from it as you can. I think are pretty much in agreement with each other, but we just got different things out of the topic.


    Nice chatting to you anyway, and don't worry about debating, its not a contest, I just wanted to make sure you weren't being mislead... I think you'll be okay though, you've been at this about as long as me, and your husband probably knows all this stuff too.


    Sorry for making assumptions!
  • subSacred@xanga

     I don't believe it's as simple as "can I do X and still be a Christian" but more of an issue of "does X honor God". The first approaches it as a bunch of rules and hoping that you are properly defining the fine print that comes with the rules. The latter reflects what God has intended for us all along...to experience the joys of community with Him by sharing in His passions and representing His character.

    You can do all kinds of things and still be a Christian. But if you
    are  a Christian the Holy Spirit will convict you if you are displeasing Him. If Christ abides
    within you, you will desire to do what pleases Him.You may fail to do
    so, and this may be out of disobedience, ignorance, or poor
    discipleship, but His life within you will give you the desire to honor
    Him with your life. We all must learn over time what is honoring God and what isn't, and in the mean time we will continue to do things that don't honor God. Approaching it the first way("can I do X and still be a Christian") has the risk of leaving us looking for loopholes for the sake of feeding our own fleshly lusts and desires. The latter is about bringing Glory and Honor to our Lord...regardless of consequences.

    The latter is about wanting to begin reconciling our relationship with Christ and letting Him live through us in all ways possible in this life...in hopes of drawing others closer to Him and allowing His life to be as present as possible to those around us. The first tends to focus solely on our own personal afterlives...seeing what we can get away with without going to hell...and our own immediate pleasures.

    It's one thing to drink a beer because you sincerely are convinced that it
    doesn't dishonor God in any way, its another to drink a beer because
    you figure even if its bad it's not gonna send you to hell.
  • tillseptemberends@xanga

    @xsteph_ox@xanga -  No problem :)  There are a lot of bible verses that I don't understand and get mad at but I just remember that they are Inspired by God and he knows what he's talking about:) I have wondered too that what if it was written today , would things be any different . Especially things about women . The whole cooking,cleaning ...etc I don't think those are things that wives have to do . It's not a command  in my opinion just a recommendation since we were made to be nurturers . I personally don't do any of those things really . My husband and I share all responsibilities evenly and plus I hate cooking and cleaning ...lol I'm an artist and well sometimes we have a reputation for being unorganized and messy which is totally me !..lol My husband actually is the more clean one...haha

      I go to a Grace Brethren Church but consider my self non - denominational too. I don't like when denominations bicker back and forth because of different views and opinions . Can't we just all get along ? We have a common faith in Christ , shouldn't that be enough ? It's makes me sad :(

    It's good talking to you :) It sounds like we believe in a lot of the same things which is cool. There are some differences but thats ok .Most christians are very different from each other anyways , which makes good discussions.
  • DixieD@xanga

    I see sin as a deliberate turning away from God and God's word and indulging in my own selfish desires. And being human, I have a lot of them.
    Jesus died for my sins, but that doesn't give me free rein to do whatever I want. 
    My struggle, especially over the past year, is how to turn back to God after turning away.  How do I put Him back in my heart, when I've been blaming him for so many things that happened in the past year? 

  • BroadwayBound93@xanga

    @JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga - I agree with you to a point. If someone posted a post on gluttony without dehumanizing overeaters, then I might be okay with it. I kind of wish people would stop trying to point fingers at who commits the "worst" sin. The poster didn't really sound that harsh to me. Oh well.

    Anyway, good post.
  • never_alone

    This is a great post.  I think many Christians have many questions.  I love that this post talks about how to ask the right questions to get the best answers on how to lead a Christian life.  Thanks for this post!
  • TodaysJourney@momaroo

    I don't think I agree. If you are a true christian you will not do those things that are not pleasing to the Lord, and the things mentioned are. Sure you will have a Christian who does something now and then due to difficulty with a sin.But they won't always and they will go to God in prayer and even fasting to stop the sinful habit they are involved with. When you read the scriptures you find that it says faith without works (well what are you portraying when your works are evil and perhaps makes a brother or sister stumble)


    Yes I know christians have bad habits that they must overcome, but they will not willfully sin by doing the habit over and over, yes we mess up and stumble but if you're in prayer and you fast and you ask the Lord for help and guidence this will not be something that hangs on to you for long. He said (the Lord) Go And Sin NO MORE


    God Bless
  • JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga

    @sheepthatsblack@xanga - Don't misunderstand me, :). I liked the actual post. Just a pet peeve of mine is Christians using smoking almost always as their example of a sin as such and yet never mentioning glutony, etc. It's just a pet peeve of mine I guess you could say. I liked your post, that wasn't harsh to me at all. I just wished it wasn't always the same sin of smoking listed, :)
  • JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga

    @BroadwayBound93@xanga - I agree with you as well to some degree. I didn't think the poster was harsh, I just get tired of hearing Christians give the main example of smoking as their usual "sin" in posts.


    "I kind of wish people would stop trying to point fingers at who commits the "worst" sin." You stated it very well. That is the ultimate concept on the smoking in which I usually see it posted, it's the worst. It drives me crazy when people who do not smoke especially use it as an example of sin because 9 times out of 10, those that do such are commiting some other sin no one has mentioned yet. I think oftentimes by pointing the finger at us smokers it somehow makes them feel better about themselves, sadly.


    And lastly, :), I'm just glad as the Bible says God looks on the appearance of our heart, not my lungs, lol, :)
  • ToxicAddict@xanga

    @JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga - The point of this post was not to singal handly outline smoking as the only sin. It was merely used for an example. True, gluttony is a sin - but the whole point of this post was trying to make it clear on what we should and should not do. I agree, we shouldn't submerge ourselves in it, but quite commonly enough we do. However, mentioning gluttony would not have changed the direction of this post if the intent of its use was the same.


    My opinion on this post in general though, true Christians wouldn't act like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Christian people haven't done that - or even I haven't, but it isn't the proper thing to do. As Christians, we're suppose to be role models for the non-believers.


    Christians don't need to be 'party poopers', we're allowed to have fun, but I think as Christians part of our job is to show others there are more ways of having fun besides: drinking, sex, smoking, etc. They're to be the same ways  that can bring us closer to Christ, and provide much more happiness.

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