Tuesday, 30 June 2009

  • Bad Questions, Part I: Can I Do X and Still Be a Christian?

    Bad Questions We All AskIt's no secret - I like questions. Questions are the starting point of a path towards truth and knowledge. Questions and doubts, if addressed properly, have the capability to buttress our faith and knowledge of the world better than pretty much anything else. Fact is that the moment you think you have all the answers, you've just claimed to be God, and as soon as you stop asking questions you've just cut yourself off at the knee: incapable of ever moving on or growing.

    That said, there are some questions that I've seen asked a great number of times, and (contrary to what our grade school teachers told us) they are bad questions. This isn't an exhaustive list of bad questions, but these came to mind while I was thinking about writing this post.

    So, while questions, in general, are good things, there are exceptions, and these are some of them along with better alternative questions to ask:

    Can I do X and still be a Christian?

    This is one I've seen on Revelife a few times. It doesn't matter what X is--drinking alcohol, sex, gambling, dancing, seeing R-rated movies, eating potato chips, drinking soda, drinking water--the answer is yes.

    Yes! You can be a Christian who smokes. You can be a Christian even if you have sex outside of marriage. Yes, you can be a Christian even if you've murdered someone. Paul writes that, "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial." So yes, just because you engage in questionable activity X does not mean you are not a Christian.

    That said, let's not forget the second clause of that sentence. "Not everything is beneficial." Just because I can do something does not necessarily mean I should do something. I am perfectly capable of going to the grocery store and stealing someone's baby out of the shopping cart. That doesn't mean it's okay for me to do that or that I should start baby-stealing. Paul is just writing that even if I stole a baby, that would not mean I am not a Christian.

    So instead of asking "Can a Christian smoke cigarettes?" ask "Would it be glorifying to God if I were to smoke cigarettes?" (see verse 31). And ask, "Would my smoking cigarettes cause my brothers and sisters in Christ to stumble?" (verse 32). If something is not glorifying to God, then it is in our best interest to not do it. Being a stumbling block to someone else is decidedly not glorifying to God.

    When asking whether or not X is glorifying to God, it's always good to turn to scripture first. The Bible has a lot of good stuff in it. However, the Bible is not (neither is it meant to be) a comprehensive rule book that says "Do this in this situation and do that in that one." There are many things (e.g. smoking cigarettes) that aren't explicitly mentioned. In that case, look for similar things that the Bible does talk about. But not matter what, be honest with yourself: does having premarital sex really--and I mean really--bring you closer to God? If it doesn't, then you probably shouldn't do it, but even if you do, that doesn't change your status as "Christian."

    Okay...there are a couple exceptions: You can't really be a Christian if you don't believe Jesus Christ died on the Cross to pay for your sins and you can't be a Christian if you deny all authority of Scripture (since that's really the only place we can really learn about the teachings of Jesus). But you can drink, smoke, do drugs, play cards, dance, and even *gasp* vote Democrat and still be a Christian.

    How often do you ask yourself, "Can I do X and still be a Christian?"

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Comments (77)

  • iStephanieMarie@xanga

    Thank you for posting this!
  • soy_esteban@xanga

    Just wanted to say that I support the idea of asking better questions.
  • crevis05@xanga

    I as all people stumble... that doesn't make me any more worthy of being a Christian.  
  • WasaiWarrior@xanga

    "Paul is just writing that even if I stole a baby, that would not mean I am not a Christian."

    While this is only a single line from your post, it highlights a confusion between two similar but distinct points that deserve clarification.  Paul's description of
    "everything is permissible" is in relation to questionable activities
    that were not sinful by Biblical standards; in the passage you quote, he makes it clear that he is not acting against his own conscience but for the sake of others.  Nowhere does he indicate that he believes eating meat is sinful, only that he will restrict himself from that activity because someone else may think it is and that he would not want to be seen as endorsing sin. In other words, he is
    saying "maybe" to drinking alcohol but "No!" to getting drunk; "maybe"
    to marriage but "No!" to extramarital sex; "maybe" to eating meat but
    "No!" to eating humans.  Here, Paul speaks of those gray/borderline zones of
    activities, but most of the rest of his letters is spent explicitly outlining what he does consider to be wrong.

    The reference you are making in saying "Can I still be a
    Christian if I killed someone?" is most certainly NOT referring to
    those gray zones.  The answer to that question is still "Yes," but because that sin can be forgiven, NOT because the believer has liberty to commit sin.  I don't
    mean to be harsh or sound overly technical, but the point is important and your view is not consistent and we wouldn't want people to walk away from this with an improper understanding of the topics involved. You are right in that most
    of the Revelife posts/debates center on gray zones where it isn't clear from scripture exactly what is classified as sinful or not... but I certainly
    don't think that murder or baby-stealing qualify as gray.
  • Pickwick12@xanga

    @WasaiWarrior@xanga - Agreed.
  • LuthienValandil@xanga

    At the same time, everytime we engage in an activity that is "not of God", we have to realize that it literally separates us from Him. God tells us clearly that we cannot serve two masters. Anything that doesn't bring glory to Him and isn't beneficial to us --as tough as it may be to grasp-- is in direct violation to His Word. And anything that goes against God, naturally, brings us into Satan's territory.

    As it's always quite a controversy, I'll bring up the above example of smoking. Though smoking is not directly mentioned in the bible, the Word tells us this in 1 Corinthians 3: 16-17:

    "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple."

    We don't have to be rocket scientists to know that smoking literally destroys our bodies. And given what God says in that verse, it's clear that whenever we do something that dishonors our bodies, it's a sin against God. Furthermore, our bodies our not even our own! So we cannot try to justify things like smoking, premarital sex, or even alcohol (drunkenness is condemned how many times by God?) because acting like owners of our bodies is next to playing God. And when it comes to politics, it's not about being Republican or Democrat. We stand for the truth. But whenever we stand for something that goes against God... well, again, we go into Satan's territory. Truly, truly, truly... we have a HUGE responsibility before God to watch ourselves.  

    Yes, everything is "permissible". This means we have free will just as much as an unchristian to make the choices we make. You can do things in direct violation of God and still have grace. But ONLY (and this is what God says, not me) when we repent, turn from our sin, and are forgiven through the blood of Christ. 

    Indeed, we are allowed to do anything, even sin. But that doesn't mean that if you're caught dead in the act that you'll just automatically be forgiven and go to heaven. Christ died for us once and lives inside of us, it's true... but for the time we're sinning, you think that He'll just stick around, pull out a Get Out of Hell free card and wait for us to repent? No. Repentance always comes first. And if there's a sin that we have never repented of or a sinful lifestyle we have not yet turned from, we are without excuse. Even if we accepted God's grace a million times in the past.


    As Christians we need to watch out so that we don't blur the line between good and evil.
  • JosephParsons@xanga

    So instead of asking "Can a Christian smoke cigarettes?" ask "Would it be glorifying to God if I were to smoke cigarettes?"


    The extraordinary Preacher and Theologean Charles Spurgeon once said, "I smoke my cigars to the glory of God."


    I agree about the 'can I do X' questions. Stupid. 'Can I sleep with the baby-sitter and dump my hag wife, and still be a Christian?' What is the point of such a question? To find out how bad you are allowed to be before Christ tosses in the towel on your salvation? How much can one get away with? Tiresome stuff.
  • Theophilus166@xanga

    @WasaiWarrior@xanga - I agree.

    The passage in question is about eating meat sacrificed to idols. Some Christians were bothered by brothers and sisters in Christ who would eat meat that had been sacrificed to an idol.  Paul is simply saying "Really, there's nothing wrong with it.  We know that these idols are nothing. However, some people are bothered by it. So while you CAN do it, it's not helpful because it creates problems within the church."

    Paul is NOT saying that we have freedom in Christ to sin. He's not saying it's permissible to steal babies, smoke crack, or kill your neighbors  He's saying we have freedom in Christ to do things that aren't sinful - however, just because they aren't inherently sinful doesn't mean that it's a good idea to do them. You have the freedom to drink alcohol - but if you're hanging out with a Christian who's a recovering alcoholic, it's not beneficial to drink around them.

    Paul is not saying that sin is "permissible." In the verses immediately before this one, he says that idolatry is wrong (and therefore NOT permissible.) The key to this passage is verse 24, "let no one seek his own good, but that of a neighbor."  

  • RoAngie467@momaroo

    This is a great post. Thanks for writing!
  • Such_Were_You@xanga

    For intent you get an A+, however, both @Theophilus166@xanga -  and @WasaiWarrior@xanga - have the right content.   So let's combine their understanding with your intent.  Let's just say I'm learning to extend grace, and that's where all that came from.


    Anywho, I always wonder why people ask that question in the first place?   If I'm so in love with this wonderful savior Jesus, because He's been so good to me, then why am I looking for how far I can get away from Him, and He still not "dump" me??   I don't know, but the last I checked people who are in love aren't looking for how far they can get from each other, and still be in love.   Maybe it's not a stupid question as much as it is a telling question??
  • JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga

    I get the jest of the post, but it always amazes me how smoking is the example used most often...YOU NEVER see someone use glutony as an example of sin, over-eating. In fact, most of the people who complain about smoking or are quick to use it as an example of sin are usually the ones participating in glutony. That always amazes me. Perhaps one day someone will be bold enough to do a post on Revelife about "glutony." Why discriminate with regards to sin? You can be that while one may not be smoking, they are raising that fork to the point of glutony.


    This, from GotQuestions.Org...Gluttony seems to be a sin that Christians like to ignore. We are often quick to label smoking and drinking as sins, but for some reason gluttony is accepted or at least tolerated. Many of the arguments used against smoking and drinking, such as health and addiction, apply equally to overeating. Many believers would not even consider having a glass of wine or smoking a cigarette but have no qualms about gorging themselves at the dinner table. This should not be!
  • proudmom87@xanga

    I don't go there. I think the real question is, "Why would I want to?"
  • Pass_the_Aura@xanga

    I've been wanting to write something like this, and now I don't have to. Thanks!

    One of my wife's theology profs says that the best sign you're preaching the genuine biblical Gospel of salvation by grace is that people start raising their eyebrows and saying "But wait, are you saying it doesn't matter if we sin?"

    When a Christian's obsession is "Is X a sin, and is a Christian allowed to do Y, and if I died before I repented of Z would I go to heaven?", then I have to conclude they don't fully understand God's grace-- their focus is, after all, on their own works! Indeed, sin (as defined in Romans 14:23) is "everything that does not come from faith." A Christian's obsession should be Jesus, who forgives our sins, takes away our sins, removes our desire to sin, frees us from the bondage of sin. Don't look at your works, good or bad-- look at Jesus!

    (It's all in Galatians, all in Galatians; bless me, what do they teach them in these schools?)
  • chalktarget@xanga

    @LuthienValandil@xanga -

    "As it's always quite a controversy, I'll bring up the above example of smoking. Though smoking is not directly mentioned in the bible, the Word tells us this in 1 Corinthians 3: 16-17:

    "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple."

    We don't have to be rocket scientists to know that smoking literally destroys our bodies. And given what God says in that verse, it's clear that whenever we do something that dishonors our bodies, it's a sin against God."


    Actually, this too is a misrepresentation of the text. The context is that temples to other gods were places where people would go to have sex with temple prostitutes. It was clear to any early Christian that prostitution would defile God's temple--who would condone that type of immoral behavior in the very presence of God? And so by extension, Paul was saying that the people who were so quick to condemn that should recognize that God is with them at all times and they should keep that in mind when judging what behaviors were and were not permissible. 

    Smoking may fit the bill of something you wouldn't want to do in God's presence, but there are plenty of permissible things in that category. The question of whether smoking is immoral is a bit different, but I don't think we can distill it into whether or not it can cause harm to the body. Virtually everything we do and everything we own and use can and does cause harm to the body. Walking out in the sun causes harm. But many of these things have benefit as well. When does the scale tip to immoral or not permissible?

    Does smoking have any benefits? Without a doubt, it does, but it also comes with considerable potential to harm. By Paul's admonition, smoking isn't something most Christians "should" be doing in most places in the world because it is perceived as bad (whatever the reality). But in the right context it could be permissible or even beneficial.

    And I hate smoking...
  • LoBornlyte@xanga

    @Pass_the_Aura@xanga -  Don't look at your works, good or bad-- look at Jesus! (It's all in Galatians, all in Galatians; bless me, what do they teach them in these schools?)


    Saint James completes the picture with "Faith without works is dead."  We need works.  Works are indespensible. It is with our works that we express our divine love.


    Don't look at your works, good or bad-- look at Jesus!  Jesus is not here.  So we cannot look at him.  What we can look at are our works, however.


    This post screams the question, "How am I to live my life?"  The answer to that question is that we are to live lives of virtue.  Virtue is excellence acheived through continued good works (habits).  So it is through our continued good works that we grow to embody excellence.
  • mikenpeg@xanga

    @JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga - Amen. I don't advocate smoking or getting drunk, but in the setting I grew up, it was all about mountains of food, and so many people had health problems because of their diet and weight. I don't think the Lord is pleased when we stuff ourselves immoderately while so many go hungry.
  • Pass_the_Aura@xanga

    @LoBornlite@xanga - James's point is about good works as the evidence of our faith to others-- "I will show you my faith by my works." That is, works are to faith as apples are to an apple tree (as Jesus put it, roughly paraphrased). Faith in Jesus saves; good works for Jesus show that a person has healthy faith in Jesus. But even unhealthy (or "dead") faith in Jesus can save-- "Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief!"

    Then there's Jesus' own take on it to consider:

    Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:28-29)

    I'm also forced to disagree with you that "Jesus is not here," since He said, "I am with you always, even unto the end of the age." And aren't we admonished to "look to Jesus" in Hebrews 12:2, just to pick one?
  • Lynnjynh9315@xanga

    That's a pretty good post.
  • deepestrecesses

    @WasaiWarrior@xanga -  Thanks!  You saved me from having to write all that out.


    There are always going to be a great many people who will manipulate and adulterate the scriptures so they can do whatever they want.


    It's pretty simple though, if you don't follow Jesus by disobeying him, then you're not a follower of Christ.  He's offered us grace to sustain us while we try to walk in His path, but the person asking "how much can I sin" is not interested in walkin in Christs path. 


    To me, it seems as though instead of asking "can I do ___", we ought to instead be praying to God, asking for forgiveness and grace so that we can better learn how to walk away from sin and desires that often lead to the above questions.

  • LoBornlyte@xanga

    @Pass_the_Aura@xanga - I'm also forced to disagree with you that "Jesus is not here," since He said, "I am with you always, even unto the end of the age."


    Because man is subject to sin his mind is not able to fathom divine things.  For this reason it was necessary for God to come physically into our world.


    When Jesus instituted the sacrament of Eucharist and established the Church he was also establishing his continued and very real physical presense on earth.  So by taking Holy Communion (the Body and Blood of Jesus) the disciple actually is in the most intimate contact with Jesus.


    However, the Jesus you are referring to is an unreal, imagined mystical belief since no living person can see God in spirit.


    Protestants reject the Church and the Eucharist and so reject the physical presence of Jesus in the world.  That leaves you making up some sort of imagined divine presense instead of taking advantage of the real thing.
  • tillseptemberends@xanga

    I really like this post and totally agree :)
     As a pretty new christian there are things that I struggle with but I know that even though I commit sin that Jesus will love me and forgive me no matter what. All Christians deal with sin no matter what it is. My view of sin is that when you sin confess it and talk to God about it . Jesus already did the forgiving at the cross so we don't need to ask for forgiveness every single time because he already did that.
       There are times that we give Satan a foothold in our lives and he tries to pull us down. We just have to remember that when Jesus died on the cross that he died for our sins and defeated Satan and his demonic angels. We are seated with Christ so he gives us the power to push Satan's foot out of the doorway.
      Also there is a belief among some Christians that you can become unsaved. Well personally I don't believe that . Maybe if you turn completely away but I guess that's debatable. I really don't know.
     Sorry if I went off topic a little bit

  • Pass_the_Aura@xanga

    @LoBornlite@xanga - Well, if this is going to become a Catholic vs. Protestant controversy then I may have to demur (Titus 3:9 and all).

    However, while we may disagree on the age-old question of Christ's physical presence in the Eucharist (I go further with this than some Protestants do, but that's my own affair), I think it does a grave disservice to Jesus to say that His spiritual presence in the world is "unreal, imagined, and mystical" because we can't see Him physically! That's materialist talk. "Spiritual" is just as real if not more so than "physical," regardless of one's denominational theology.

    - Jesus said "I am with you always," not "You will imagine I am with you always" or "I am with you whenever you take Communion." (Matthew 28:20)

    - Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, who literally indwells all believers, bringing them indescribably close to God at all times (John 16:13-15).

    - Jesus in fact said that the spiritual presence of the Holy Spirit is of more value to us than His own physical presence (John 16:7).

    - Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:35ff).

    Unreal, imagined, mystical? Not if what Jesus said is true!
  • xsteph_ox@xanga

    @JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga - Gluttony is kind of a sin though. I'm overweight and I know this, because its about excess and taking more than you need, so theres less for others. Of course thats not the reason I overeat. I know theres one about excess in the ten commandments, but I'm not sure what it is. I think also treating your body like the temple of God also encorporates this. I think smoking causes alot more damage to your body and its not something you need to do at all- food is something that everyone needs, and some people are born with bigger body frames or the genetics that will give them curves anyway, so not everyone will have the appearance of being slender, but everyone can be healthy and not eat more than they need. You raised a good point, but you can't accuse all christians of being unaware of gluttony and eating too much, because I know its something I need to stop, although its not a direct sin, just tyed in with it.
  • xsteph_ox@xanga

    @WasaiWarrior@xanga - @LuthienValandil@xanga - @Theophilus166@xanga - @Such_Were_You@xanga - Thanks for writing the things I couldn't say myself! I didn't agree with this post, but I agree it was writing with the right heart. We should avoid sin as much as possible, and stay from the grey lines, not see how close we can get to them!
  • anonymous

    yes i agree that we should always reflect upon, "does it bring glory to God?"
    but the question really isn't CAN i do it? but SHOULD i do it?

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