Tuesday, 16 June 2009

  • mewithoutYou: Using 'Allah' to Praise God


    For the last several days my ears have been involved in a love affair with the latest mewithoutYou album It's All Crazy! It's All False! It's All A Dream! It's Alright!

    Here is a trailer for the whole album:


    There are several lyrically stunning pieces in this masterpiece. I wanted to share the final song with you. It's titled "Allah, Allah, Allah." If you would like to listen to the song as you read the lyrics click here.

    In everywhere we look (x6) Allah, Allah, Allah In everywhere we look
    In everyone we meet (x6) Allah, Allah, Allah In everyone we meet.
    In every blade of grass (x6) Allah, Allah, Allah 
    In every blade of grass It doesn't matter what you done It doesn't matter what you done
    What effect is without a cause? It doesn't matter what you done
    Now lay your faithless head down In necessities cotton hand
    There's a love that never changes No matter what you done
    If your old man did you wrong (x3) Well maybe his old man did him wrong
    If you care to sing forgiveness songs Come down and join our band
    We'll cut you like sword And sing forgiveness songs
    Everywhere we look (x5) It's all crazy It's all false It's all a dream It's alright Everywhere we look

    This song is simply beautiful. It gives a simplistic glimpse into the way we follow Jesus Christ and worship G-D. It reminds us that Hashem has more than one name. This group of insightful musicians has always amazed me with their artist talent, their faithfulness to the Christian scriptures, and their willingness to try new things both musically and socially.

    Are you offended at Christians using the name Allah to praise G-D?

Comments (219)

  • Mangonese@xanga

    Nope. God is God, no matter what His name.

  • Lisa_x09@xanga

    I thought Allah and God were the same omnipotent deity, only named differently specific to their followers' culture.

  • ChrisRusso@xanga

    Arabic Christians use "Allah" to refer to the Christian God.  All it means is "The One."

    Should we be offended by people using "God" to refer to God?  After all, "god" is from a root that means something like "one who can be invoked," and is not his name.

  • Roadkill_Spatula@xanga

    @ChrisRusso@xanga - Arabic Christians use "Allah" to refer to the Christian God.  All it means is "The One." I was curious about this.

    I used to have a book that documented a couple of hundred instances of "tongues" that were human languages that the speaker couldn't have known but were overheard by people who did speak those languages. One story was from a missionary to an African country, who was trying to figure out what to call Jesus in that country, because the Jesus described in the Q'ran doesn't match the Jesus of the Bible. In a prayer meeting in Texas, he heard the person next to him praising God in Arabic or an African language (I can't remember), using the Arabic name for Jesus. So he figured that if that name was good enough for the Holy Spirit, it was good enough for him and his colleagues to use in their missionary work.

  • eskeemo_kisses@xanga

    Maybe I'm the only one, but that make feel weird and not in a good way.

  • gabrielpeter@xanga

    I'd kinda like to know the deeper Christian history into this kind of thinking.  I don't think Paul visited Greece and equated the Christian God with Greek gods and goddesses.  If Allah is a false god -- which it is -- why are we giving Elohim his name?

  • Theophilus166@xanga

    I think that using "Allah" to describe the God of scripture is a mistake in our culture.  The band needs to realize that while it may be acceptable in middle eastern or Muslim countries, the use of the term "Allah" in our culture is strictly a Muslim term.   In the minds of the vast majority of Americans, "Allah" is the name for the God of Islam.  While you can appeal to the technical meaning of the term, in linguistics, the definition of a word is determined by popular usage.   If you say "I worship Allah," 99.9% of Americans would assume you're speaking of the God of Islam.

    If I start walking around referring to children born out of wedlock as "bastards," I'm technically correct in the use of the term.  However, in our culture, the word implies something different than the technical meaning.  If I'm going to be culturally sensitive, I have to understand that and avoid using the word even if I'm technically correct in my usage.

    While I don't think it's inherently wrong to use the term to refer to the Judeo-Christian God, I think it's an extremely poor choice of words in our culture. You have to understand the culture you're in, and the connotations of the words you use.

  • WasaiWarrior@xanga

    If, by Allah, they are seeking to invoke a sentiment of unity with the Islamic faith, then the use is inappropriate, both by Christian and Islamic standards.  Theologically, the Allah of the Koran and the God of the Bible are incompatible since the emphasis in the Bible is on Christ as the son/incarnation of God, which is considered blasphemous by Islamic theology.  From a Christian perspective one can argue that Allah is an image/reflection of the true deity of the Christian scriptures, but to say that they are equivalent is simply incorrect by both standards and does an injustice to both.

  • scrambledmegzntoast@hardestlevel

    @ChrisRusso@xanga - The "Christian" God? Isn't it the same God, as far as the Abrahamic religions are concerned?

  • Pass_the_Aura@xanga

    Points to consider.

    - It's not an Arabic song. It's in English. According to Wikipedia (which I know isn't always reliable, but at least reflects popular understanding): "Some Muslims leave the name 'Allāh' untranslated in English. Sometimes this comes from a zeal for the Arabic text of the Qur'an and sometimes with a more or less conscious implication that the Jewish and Christian concept of God is not completely true in its details. Conversely, the usage of the term Allah by English speaking non-Muslims in reference to the God in Islam, Marshall G. S. Hodgson says, can imply that Muslims are worshiping a mythical god named 'Allah' rather than God, the creator. This usage is therefore appropriate, Hodgson says, only for those who are prepared to accept its theological implications." (source, emphasis mine) Are we prepared to accept the theological implications of referring to God by this name in English?

    - What indication is there in the text, or anywhere else, that the "god" addressed here is unequivocally the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and nobody else? Again from Wikipedia: "Arab Christians today use terms such as Allāh al-ʼAb ( الله الأب, "God the Father") to distinguish their usage from Muslim usage." (I hope I don't need to remind any Christians here of the First Commandment.) How is the "Allah" in this song distinguished from the Muslim "Allah," or for that matter Zeus, Odin, or Vishnu?

    - I know (personally) people from ethnically Muslim countries who write music in Arabic styles and languages to teach the Gospel. That's fantastic. However, their songs are specifically about the Gospel, the God of the Bible (the Injil if you like), and this man named JESUS. This album doesn't appear to make any mention at all of the founder of Christianity. Heck, I'd settle for a decent worship song to "Isa Massih" right about now. Contextualization is fine, but only if in the context you're giving the actual message.

    - The lyrics given are no more theologically specific, and incomparably less well-written, than George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" (which starts out with "Hallelujah" and ends up with "Hare Krishna"). For that matter, what are they going on about? "In every blade of grass It doesn't matter what you done"? That's borderline inane.

    - My problem is not with somebody using the word "Allah," it's with them marketing it to us as a specifically Christian song. I see no evidence of that and some to the contrary.

    - Now that we've seen this, how long will it be until we see (and see defended) a Christian label release "Zeus, Zeus, Zeus"?

    I've been talking for years about the death of Christian music. Now I've seen it. We now have a Christian song by a Christian band that not only doesn't mention Jesus Christ, it explicitly leaves wide open the question of which god it's talking about at all. Nunc dimittis servum tuum, Domine, in furore.

  • crystal_air@xanga

    Christ, All-Mighty God, Jesus, Allah, Yeshua, Great Spirit, I AM, whatever you choose to call Him, I think He loves it when we acknowledge Him. If I were to share my testimony with a Muslim, I think I would use the name Allah or Allah al-Ab as Pass_the_Aura said, and I don't see a problem with it. It's all about the state of your heart.

  • sierrraa@xanga

    1. Aaron Weiss is my ideal man, so I'm probably a bit bias.
    2. I see no problem with this. "Allah" means "G-d" in Arabic, like many others have pointed out. No freaks out when English speakers call Jesus "Yeshua" (or maybe they do.. just not in my circle of acquaintances) Also, Aaron's mom is Muslim, which is probably the reason he uses a lot of Arabic in his music. Regardless of what words he's using, his lyrics are absolutely beautiful.

    @Pass_the_Aura@xanga - I don't think mwY ever claims to be a "Christian" band (which, if you think about it, it's pretty silly to use Christian as an adjective. Do you call Christian plumbers or get your Christian gas for your Christian Hummer from Christian gas stations?). What's more, who cares of "Christian" music dies? We'd all be better off in the long run without cheap imitations of much better "secular" music out there. Also, I wasn't aware that "Christian" bands had to mention Jesus in every single song they have. Someone should probably go tell Relient K or half of the big time "Christian" rock bands about that.

  • ChrisRusso@xanga

    @scrambledmegzntoast@hardestlevel - Allegedly yes.  But God as described by Islam is markedly different from God as described by Christianity.  God-in-Islam is not a trinity, for one example.

  • shanella@xanga

    the reason i would  feel odd listening to this is while "Allah" is the word for the name of the Islamic god, the association of the word is not the "Christian" God. 

    I dunno .. just my $.02 I agree with what @Pass_the_Aura@xanga is saying, why not have a song that talks about Zeus or Vishnu, afterall those are the name of god in those religions ...

  • sierrraa@xanga

    @shanella@xanga - But those are not the name of the G-d of Abraham the way Allah is. There's a difference. 

  • shanella@xanga

    @sierrraa@xanga - then they should have no problem using Yahweh I suppose ... it all comes down to the fact that the God if Islam is not the God of Christianity even though they share a similar history.

    Question for all you versed out there, isn't Illah the word for God in arabic? Isn't Allah just a referring to "the god?" and doesn't the islamic prayer end with "there is no other god than god?" (Illah than Allah)??

    I really doubt they are referring to God the Father in that case.

  • Theophilus166@xanga

    @crystal_air@xanga - While God can see our heart, other people can't.  When we're relating with God, I think the state of our heart is all that matters.  However, when I'm preaching the gospel to someone, they can't see the state of my heart.  If I forget to mention that Jesus died for them, and that He is the only name by which men can be saved, they have not heard the gospel.  Words carry meaning.  If I tell someone that Allah loves them and that Muhammad died for them, no matter how sincere I am, I'm not preaching the gospel.

    You also said... "If I were to share my testimony with a Muslim, I think I would use the name Allah or Allah al-Ab...." Maybe it would be wise to do so.  However, this is an American band playing to a mostly American audience.  In different cultures, words carry different meanings, and we have to be wise enough to know the difference.

    @sierrraa@xanga - There's a huge difference between not mentioning Jesus in a song, and talking about something that could be considered the worship of a foreign God. I'm not saying that's what's happening here (I think it's a well-intended mistake), but they are two very different issues.  

    In addition, I think you missed the point that Pass_the_Aura@xanga was trying to make. He wasn't saying you should always sing about Jesus.  He was saying that if you're going to make a reference to the Christian God as "Allah," especially in our pluralistic culture, you better make it darn clear that you're talking about Jesus and the God depicted in Christian scriptures. The song certainly doesn't do that.

  • deepestrecesses

    @Theophilus166@xanga - Very well stated. 


    I do wish people (including myself for sure) would begin to use God's "Real" name-- but there are very few teachings of His real name to the point that if I were challenged to list off His "real" names I could probably only list 3 or 4-- and with using His name correctly, we would also have to learn to use them appropriately.


    All that to say, culturally speaking, I am uncomfortable, but not really offended.  I just wouldn't use it.

  • sierrraa@xanga

    @shanella@xanga - Like I stated before, mewithoutYou isn't a "Christian" band and two of the members' mother is Muslim, so it's no big deal for them to use Arabic words in their music. Yahweh isn't G-d's name, either. It's just how we think it might be spelled/pronounced. mewithoutYou's fanbase is generally made up of people who don't care what word he uses for G-d's name. They're certainly not a band for the general CCM types.

    Also, Illah means simply "god," while Allah is a combination of the words Al [the] and illah [god], so it means "The God."

    I don't see why it's such a big deal, honestly. Don't we often take things that people use for bad to use for good? There's really no issue here. It's just a word.

  • sierrraa@xanga

    @Theophilus166@xanga - I'm pretty sure they never meant this to be a song sung in churches or anything. Since they don't bill themselves as a "christian" band, why would it matter what word they use? Like I said in another response, those who have been and are fans of mewithoutYou know Who Aaron is referring to. I like that he uses Arabic in a lot of their songs. It's a very beautiful language. 

  • crystal_air@xanga

    @Theophilus166@xanga - Good points. However I would never tell anyone that Muhammad died for them and, in witnessing to a Muslim, would not bring the prophet up on my own as I do not believe he is crucial or even neccesary to their salvation. I am proud of the band for ignoring the stereotypical meanings and thoughts that the western world has slapped on certain words and symbols.

  • super_cruz@xanga

    I've never really understood why people try so hard to disassociate the God of Islam from Christianity from Judaism. When's the last time a Christian tried to claim that the God of Judaism was mythical? The speeches of Muhammad demand that the followers of Islam respect the other two monotheisms (Christianity and Islam). Islam treats Jesus as the greatest of God's prophets (though they consider the foundational concept of Christianity--the divinity of Christ--to be blasphemous). The lay over between the faiths are so numerous that to make the claim that "Allah" is mythical is to claim that "Yahweh" is mythical is to make the claim that "Jehovah" is mythical, etc...

    Historically, Muhammad studied both Christianity and Judaism while he was on his trade routes. To argue in the way some of the people here are arguing shows a profound level of ignorance. Even if you are to use references--from authors who more than obviously have an ulterior motive--to try and give authority to your opinions, the absence of historical locality apparent in those quotes will inevitably undermine your argument.

    Most importantly, these kinds of linguistic arguments are completely vain from a divine perspective. Languages were imposed upon mankind due to our own mistakes. I imagine that language is entirely moot to God who hears not our words but our "heart."

    That said, get off your self-righteous high horses and start using that heart of yours to love and not divide.

  • Theophilus166@xanga

    @sierrraa@xanga - It doesn't matter whether this is a band or an individual.  the question is, should a follower of Christ refer to God as "Allah"?  The question is about every Christian, regardless of whether they stand in front of a microphone or not. My contention is that in our culture, the answer is no, because of the general understanding of the term by the vast majority of people in our culture. 

    A few years ago, I sat on a plane next to a devout Jew.  We started talking about the war and eventually about Jesus.  One time I referred to Him as "Christ" and the guy became very uncomfortable and asked me not to call Him that.   While I firmly believe Jesus is the Christ, I realized that the term carries very different meanings in different cultures.  In America, "Christ" is nothing more than a last name for Jesus.  To a Jew, it's basically blasphemy.  That's not to say I won't say that I believe Jesus is the Christ, but I came to realize that when I talk to Jews, I often need to be careful about when I refer to Jesus as Christ.  If I start off with the claim, the conversation won't go very far.  This is just an illustration to show how important that we understand the implications of a word in the context we use it. Calling Jesus "Christ" means very little to most Americans.  To Jews, it's a major claim.

  • zipperears@xanga

    I think Aaron probably meant to stir up some controversy and get people thinking - who is God? Who is Allah? This is probably the kind of discussion he hoped people would have, and he probably hoped that some of those people would realize that if God is everywhere, in everything, than different people, with different understandings of Him, can worship him together, even if the theology differs. I for one am ready to accept its theological implications knowing that God's thoughts are higher than mine, yours, or anyone else's.

    To say that Allah is or isn't our God is to say we do or do not possess Him. Neither of which, and both of which, are true.

    If you avoid the name "Allah" for its implications that He wears a turban, you should also avoid the name "God" for its implications that He hates gays.

  • Theophilus166@xanga

    @super_cruz@xanga - First of all, I find it interesting that you give us the 'divine perspective' on this issue.  Really?  You have that perspective? Then you tell us to get off our self-righteous high-horses?  This from the guy who says he's giving us the divine perspective? 

    Then you say that anyone who disagrees with you is biased, and any source they quote is obviously from someone with an ulterior motive.  How in the world can you brush away every dissenting view with a single claim of bias?

    Secondly, the bible teaches that the testimony of God is that He gives us eternal life through His Son, Jesus.  If you do not believe this testimony, the bible says that you are a liar, and God is not in you (I John 5:7-12) 

    That's why it's important to separate Christianity from ANY faith that rejects the idea that Jesus is the only Son of God, and that it is only through Jesus can we be saved.  The bible simply leaves no room for fellowship between those who believe that Jesus died and rose again for their sins, and those who believe Jesus was merely a prophet who was not crucified for our sins and was not raised from the dead.

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