Monday, 15 June 2009
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How Much Of What We Believe Is From The Bible?
Did you grow up believing a doctrine that you later found wasn't even in The Bible? It seems to me there is a lot of things "Christians" believe that are not scriptural. About a year ago I was getting the oil changed in my car. Like I always do, I brought up the Word with any and everyone in the room. There was a man who asked me what kind of church I attend. I replied different churches. I go to Messianic churches as well as gentile nondenominational church on Sundays. He asked me what I believed and I replied "The Bible." To me it is as simple as that. If it is in there believe it and do it, if it is not in there flee. This is the way I think and do.
This man replies to me, "I go to a nondenominational church as well." He begins to tell me about his doctrines.
"Oh, we teach the 5 doctrines of grace and this doctrine and that doctrine."
Meanwhile, I am wondering where in the scriptures can the "5 doctrines of grace" be found. Then I began to notice all the little things this guy was saying he believes that are not straight from scriptures. As well as all the little things that most "Christians" believe that cannot be found between Genesis and Revelation.
This is my philosophy: if you can add a name to it other than Bible or "this book, this chapter, this verse," then it should not be taught. There are so many heretical doctrines that are brought in and disguised with fancy titles and a single verse twisted out of context. If we use His word to govern our society, thought processes, lifestyles, and politics, this world would be blessed the way HaShem intended it to be in the days of Adam.
Do you find yourself being more influenced by traditionalism than actual scripture?
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About the Author
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- From: rabbi_cowboy@xanga
- Name: rabbi_cowboy
- About Me: I am a Christian with a firm grasp on my Jewish root. I love learning about The Word, History, Science, Chemistry and just about any other subject that relates. I love Apologetics (spoken in defence of). I wish Christians would band together and fight off the attackers of the faith, but if I be the only one it is still fine; for God does not need vast numbers to make a victory. I love studying and teaching all things much like Solomon said "I have set my mind to learn all things done under the sun......... aside from being a wise man I taught the people knowledge." I am always open for a conversation when I have the time whether it be to help teach one another or to debate, either is good with me. Debating was also the way the early church learned as well (see Acts 15:6).
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Comments (85)
"This is my philosophy: if you can add a name to it other than Bible or
"this book, this chapter, this verse," then it should not be taught."
Hmm. Problem. I take it that you don't believe in the Trinity, then?
Some of the defining beliefs of Christianity, though strongly implied in Scripture, are never explicitly spelled out in Scripture. Beliefs that we know the early church and apostles held to. And there are so many issues that the Bible doesn't touch on at all.
@ChrisRusso@xanga is right. We can not forget the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the way she leads us to truth as communities of faith.The Church of G-D out of Anderson Indiana claims "no creed but the Bible" but they/we believe in the Trinity.
I find myself to be much more influenced by scripture than tradition but I don't downplay tradition. In fact, traditions often sheds light on scripture because it allows us to see how earlier brothers and sisters of faith lived out the same scriptures.
Good book:The Early Christians; In Their Own Words by Eberhard Arnold
I'm only influenced by Scripture, my pastor only teaches God's Word, then another lady who is head of office loves to teach on our Jewish roots. Things have made more sense ever since I started paying attention to those little details. We even celebrate Passover, it's great!
if you only believe in what is in the Bible, i assume you believe everything in the Bible. you'd better not be against slavery, polygamy, etc. otherwise, your criticisms are unfounded.
On the one hand, we all ought to be accountable to the book that we say we get our ideas from. (Would you trust a person who calls himself a Muslim and says that the Qu'ran teaches that there are seven gods named Doc, Grumpy, Sleepy...) Indeed, most of the "problems" that people like to point out in the Bible can be resolved by a closer study of the words themselves, rather than what we expect or assume them to say.
On the other hand, "We only teach the Bible" is the slogan of every cult, sect, and spiritual abuser. Maybe they recognize the value of the brand name; or maybe they're just seriously misguided. Either way, we've got a problem.
And the answer is (ironically) found in the Scripture itself:
"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life" (Jesus speaking; John 5:39-40)
The Bible says, and Jesus says, that the Bible is not meant to be the center of our life or religious experience. Jesus is. Pretty simple, really. Of course Jesus does point us back to the Bible--"The Scripture cannot be broken," etc.--which is why we should believe it if we believe in Jesus. But let's keep first things first.
That's the problem with religions, too many people are praising or demonizing things that aren't even in their religious texts. Too many people are adding or removing, praising one, while condemning the other. Stick to the book, or don't. Don't start adding pages cause this is PROBABLY what jesus would have agreed with.
Can anyone tell me why we need a pope?
What went into the Bible (as we know it today) was decided upon by men. How do you know whether those men included the right stuff and excluded the wrong stuff?
I have issues with this idea, because like @ChrisRusso@xanga points out - what of the Trinity? Many of the doctrines espoused by the man you were talking to, aren't necessarily in the Bible, word for word with those particular titles (ie - total depravity) but it is most certainly a biblical belief!! There are many prinicples in the Bible as well, that guide our decision making and our beliefs. It's dangerous territory to just make a blanket statement like " only what is in the bible should be believed". ( ie again, the Trinity)
This is why I read commentaries from wise men of ages past --- the great "church fathers" as they are called. They were endowed with a special gift of understanding and interpretation - as they seek to make sense of supposed contradictions and hard teachings. I'm thankful I don't have to rely on my own understanding and interpretation! There are others to guide me.
highly simplistic
You're right, I'm learning a lot from Revelife. I'm glad I found it, actually it was recommended to me.
Yeah, I used to believe in the rapture, then I read the bible.
@designandart@xanga - Be really careful with what you learn from Revelife. A lot of the posts here are far from teaching truth. Some of the commenters on the other hand are probably worthwhile to follow.
@TheGreatBout@xanga - "We can not forget the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the way she leads us to truth as communities of faith." She? Where do you find the Holy Spirit referred to as a "she"?
This post is the exact reason why creeds and confessions are an absolute necessity! This should be a lesson to all of us. The word “Creed” comes from the Latin “creedo” which means “I believe”. A “confession” is simply a statement of what one believes. Both “creeds” and “confessions” are inherently a part of Biblical Christianity; “…if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.” The bedrock of the Christian Faith is that God reveals Himself through His Son Jesus; the record of which is inerrant and infallibly recorded in the Bible. It is not enough to simply say “I believe the Bible” because the real issue is “what do you believe the Bible teaches?” Once a person says, “the Bible teaches this…” he has created a “creed.”
Whya are they important?
1. Understanding God’s revelation in Scripture is not always an easy task (2 Peter 3:16) and not every person will arrive at the same level of understanding as every other (1 Peter 2:2). Even the Lord Jesus in His human nature had to grow in wisdom and understanding (cf. Luke 2:52).
2. When God revealed Himself in Scripture, He did so in various ways; as a series of propositions (e.g., the writings of Paul, etc.), through historical narrative (i.e., Genesis, Exodus, the Gospels, etc.), in poetry (Psalms, Job, etc.) and Wisdom literature (Proverbs, Ecclesiastes) as well as prophetic announcements (the Major and Minor Prophets).
3. Putting all that revelation together into a comprehensive understanding of the nature, attributes, purposes and plans of the infinite God is a difficult task.
4. Because God is so much greater than our mind’s ability to comprehend, we will not, in this life, have complete knowledge of Him, but we can still have true knowledge of Him. And it ought to be the desire and goal of every Christian to come to a richer, deeper and fuller understanding of the God who saved them (cf. John 17:3).
5. Not all men are willing to do the work necessary to arrive at this level of understanding (Proverbs 2:1ff). Furthermore, not all men can do this level of work. Christ gifts His church with teachers just for this purpose (Ephesians 4:11ff) and warns those who do not have the gift, not to practice the calling (James 3:1).
6. God not only recognizes and approves of creeds and confessions, but actually made some of the very earliest ones part of Scripture (cf. 2 Timothy 2:11-13, 1 Timothy 3:16).
Grace and peace!
~MIchael
Agreed.
God is the One Who we worship. His Son is the Head of the Church, which is not a building, but a family of people who obey Him. Who beside Jesus, by the authority of the Father, through the Spirit, has the authority to tell Christians what is true and how to worship? There are many doctrines that were taken from misunderstandings of scripture. And some that were just plain made up. If what you believe isn't found in the Bible, then who are you following? It isn't God. If you don't like what God has to say, and would rather follow someone else's teachings, that's your choice.
"Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My
word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our
home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me." John 14:23-24
and
"But as it is written:
“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,Nor have entered into the heart of manThe things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”1 Corinthians 2:9 (Isaiah 64:4)
@MC_Shann@xanga - I rec. this comment.
@Tom - Thanks Tom!
(Can you actually rec a comment?)
@ChrisRusso@xanga - @TheGreatBout@xanga - No I do not believe the "Trinity" because it is not in the Bible, nor is its teaching Biblical. "The Christian doctrine of the
Trinityteaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead." So any scripture proving Jesus is the actual father could not be. Isaiah 9:6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal FATHER, Prince of Peace." Acts 16:7 "and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them". Refering to the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Jesus. There are many more supporting this same pattern. John 1:1,14 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory AS OF the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." Jesus is not the "son of God" as tought by most people he is the litteral essence of the spoken voice of God. Our words create vibrations, God's create matter. Rev 19:13 "He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God." Jesus is God, the one God in every way. Rev 1:17 "When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the FIRST and the LAST," not the second but the first. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me."
@LadyLibellule@xanga - What went into the Bible (as we know it today) was decided upon by men. How do you know whether those men included the right stuff and excluded the wrong stuff?
Jesus created the Church upon the foundation of the Apostles. Jesus gave his authority to the Apostles who in turn gave Jesus' authority to successors, and so on down the line.
Pope Damasus I had St. Jerome compile the first official New Testament canon around 380AD.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - This may sound strange but I do agree with slavery and I am not against polygomy. http://barrydadof3.xanga.com/704037080/slavery/. The slavery tought in the Bible is different from the Slavery in the early America. Polygomy is never directly condemned in scripture and if you do research you will find this to be truth. The Bible condemns polygomy for "overseers, deacons and elders." But as for the rest of the people they are never condemned for it. If I were a Muslim with 5 wives and I just accepted Jesus do I have to get rid of 4? But when God created Adam he gave him 1 wife not 5.
@nicolevw@xanga - As far as me relying upon other men to interpret scripture this is HIGHLY WRONG. 1 John 2:27 "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have NO NEED FOR ANYONE TO TEACH YOU; but as His ANOINTING teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." The falacy you just mentioned is the very thing Jesus tought against. Matthew 23:8-10 "But be not ye called Rabbi(teacher) : for one is your TEACHER, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call NO MAN YOUR FATHER upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."
Ps my screen name is Rabbi but I don't let people call me that, it is just a screen name.
@Lordv16@xanga - We do not need a Pope. If Jesus is the head of the church I think he can do the job well enough by himself.
@Tom - 1 Thess 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (the word cought up is the Latin word Rapturius) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord". So rapture is in the Bible but in latin, when It takes place is for you to find in your own study but it is there.
@MC_Shann@xanga - It would be cool if we could do such a thing as rec. a comment. For now I think what I did is the closest to it. Maybe it will prove of some worth anyway.
@rabbi_cowboy@xanga - I am very much aware of where the term came from. I've also read into the history of it and the other verses people use to try to argue for the belief and I found little evidence that supports the belief. Most of the verses people use to justify this belief seem to actually go against it. I didn't make my comment to debate the rapture though, it was actually meant more as a joke.
@thus_I_fight@xanga - The love for Jesus comes first, then he will... and The Father does the rest.
@rabbi_cowboy@xanga - I just read what you posted above on the trinity and I am at a lack of words. Could you... Without just saying "the Bible" elaborate on what you believe about God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus and their relation to one another? It would appear you hold to 3 Gods or some form of modalism.
Grace and peace!
~Michael
@MC_Shann@xanga - NO not 3 but 1. Trinity teaches 3 the quote you read was of the trinity doctrine. Jesus is the one and only God that is what I said. He is the father acording to Isaiah 9:6 and the Holy Spirit acording to Acts 16:7.