Wednesday, 10 June 2009
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Church Invites Members to Bring Unloaded Guns to Service
Not too long ago, there was a feature post about whether or not guns should be allowed in worship services. Here's a news article that takes it one step further: Gun Loving PastorA Kentucky pastor is inviting his flock to bring guns to church to celebrate the Fourth of July and the Second Amendment.
New Bethel Church is welcoming "responsible handgun owners" to wear their firearms inside the church June 27, a Saturday. An ad says there will be a handgun raffle, patriotic music and information on gun safety.
"We're just going to celebrate the upcoming theme of the birth of our nation," said pastor Ken Pagano. "And we're not ashamed to say that there was a strong belief in God and firearms — without that this country wouldn't be here."
The article goes with usual discussion about the constitution and God and our country. There will be a security check at the door, and guns will be required to be unloaded. Also, they say the event was planned months before Dr. George Tiller was murdered and bringing a canned good for a friend is encouraged.
Here's the part that I want to focus on:
He said the point was not to mix worship with guns, though he may reference some passages from the Bible.
"Firearms can be evil and they can be useful," he said. "We're just trying to promote responsible gun ownership and gun safety."
Even IF one feels bringing weapons into a worship service is okay, how can one set up an event such as this, reference passages from the Bible, and still say the point is not to mix worship and guns?
So, let's pretend someone in your church brings up this idea.
Would your church support "Bring-an-unloaded-gun-to-church Sunday?"
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Comments (78)
No. Guns are a creation of man made for the purpose of violating the 5th Commandment. They don't mesh with Scripture.
Now, Revelifers, attack!!!!!! I am convinced that most American Christians are more offended by gun "heresy" than they are by actual heresy.
No. I go to church to worship my Savior, not to make a political statement. At church we should set aside the world, not parade it. I do not own a gun, but I am grateful for my legal right to have one if I choose. I believe that right was also inspired by God.
@scrambledmegzntoast@hardestlevel - Not necessarily. The 5th commandment is against murder, not killing. If you need to defend your family or hunt, there is no problem.
I think this is not a wise idea because with those who are "responsible" you also find those who are not responsible. And the 4th of July is not about guns. This would be fine for a club meeting, but not a worship service.
I agree with @lomal@xanga - this church is making an obvious political statement. When churches begin pushing political ideas onto society, we Christians need not be surprised or offended when society takes the liberty of pushing back. This kind of display is not helping us to retain our religious freedoms, it's crippling them.
Church and state needs to be separate. The Fourth of July is the celebration of an earthly kingdom, (not saying celebrating it is wrong; just not in a church setting) God's house should be set apart as a celebration of a kingdom not of this world. If Jesus thought turning His house into a marketplace was worthy of a riot, then I wonder what He would think of having a Independence Day gun rally within its doors.
Just my opinion.
I think it's stupid. I'm all for owning guns and conceal and carry permits, but this is just ridiculous. (Of course, I have problems when churches try to mix God and American pride so that's part of it.)
I'm more concerned with "worship and a raffle!" than "worship and a gun."
@mikenpeg@xanga - The Fourth of July is the celebration of an earthly kingdom, (not saying celebrating it is wrong; just not in a church setting) God's house should be set apart as a celebration of a kingdom not of this world. Exactly!
Uh, that's kinda dumb. I'm all for guns but seriously?
I can see soooo much wrong with this idea! Guns at church??? It is a BAD idea on alot of levels. For one the pastor is assuming that all the attendees are good and honest and not carrying a bullet or two in their pocket.........it would be nice if all us 'Christians' were honest and good but ===face it we arent! I would definately not let my child go to that particular service....and Im sure I would not be there either. Arent we suppose to be about our Fathers buisness? This is one of the craziest stunts Ive heard of ........ we wouldnt have National bring your gun to school day or work day or whatever! Jesus is probably up there wondering what in the world is this 'church' thinking??
Sunday service is about worship and studying God's word. If they really need to do this odd gun thing it should be schedualed as it's own event on a weekday.
Oooo! Next can we have cowboy hat day to celibrate our western herotage?... and, uh, how .... God ... protedcted the cowboys!
@scrambledmegzntoast@hardestlevel - wow, ummm.... if guns kill people, then pencils misspell words , cars make people drive drunk, and spoons made rosie o'donnell fat
if people want to bring guns to any church service i don't see any problem with it, however, i would agree that the church is making a political scene. drawing attention to itself, and i don't believe it is the wisest course of action.
@withallyourheart - why stop there, i'm sure we could come up with 52 themes, one for every week of the year. i mean, why just celebrate America's independence?
@KnowingHimm@xanga - I thought when you began your response with "wow, ummm" that something brilliant was to follow. Imagine my disappointment when it was just some NRA talking points.
@realungabunga@xanga - The early church would very much disagree with you that it's acceptable to kill in self-defense.
"And we're not ashamed to say that there was a strong belief in God and firearms — without that this country wouldn't be here."
Exactly. How could we have killed all the Indians if we didn't have firearms?
@Theophilus166@xanga - With smallpox and syphilis, silly.
Seriously, though, I think he was referring to the Rev War with the "country wouldn't be here" comment.
@ChrisRusso@xanga - yeah, I figured that was the reference. Of course, we like to think about the times we used our weapons in self-defense, and forget about the times we use them to kill people who inconvenience us.
@scrambledmegzntoast@hardestlevel - your point was that the primary purpose of a gun is to commit murder, which is beyond me how you can believe that. people don't need guns to commit murder. before guns there were bows and arrows? was the purpose of bows and arrows to violate the "5th" commandment? (i do take it your Catholic, which is why it's in quotations, i consider it to be the 6th commandment.)
This is absolutely ridiculous. The sole purpose of a firearm is that of a weapon: to injure. What does it say about a church when it rallies around such an icon? Is it because firearms can be used to defend justice? There are better, more appropriate symbols than that.
@Theophilus166@xanga - Killing would have happened with other weapons. The problem was with the heart of the person, not the tool used.
@realungabunga@xanga - right. But I'm saying that followers of Christ should never kill, even in self-defense.
absolutely not a good idea. The idea of going to Church is to praise God's name and to worship Him. Let us free our mind of useless things about going to Church...
It's hard to miss the irony in this post. Thanks Humblewalk. You always make me smile.
"Bring your gun! Celebrate America! Firearms and G-D are the mother of the United States! (Oh... and if you can, bring a canned food)."
I can't see my congregation EVER supporting an event such as this. We like art more than guns.
A gun is a tool, it will not pick itself up and fire itself. Like any other tools, it can be used properly or improperly. I can use a screwdriver to turn a screw or stab you, the screwdriver doesn't know the difference.
The NRA is not the anti-christ, quit looking for opportunities to bash them.
Sadly, politics are, always have been, and always will be a part of church. Less so now in this country and in this era than ever in the past. We have more freedom of religion here than nearly any other society in recorded human existence.
Separation of church and state does not equate segregation of church and state. That is a standard liberal left wing talking point. If you are so offended by the inclusion of "God" in government, then send me all your money, since it has "In God We Trust" printed on it, and that obviously offends you.
The sole purpose of a firearm is NOT to kill. There are many people who own and use firearms who have never shot a living creature, even for food. Ask the marksmen who shoot in the Olympics, or the collector/investor who has millions invested in a fine collection. Shooting sports and Marksmanship develop hand-eye co-ordination, muscle control, breathing control, etc. Ask any sport shooter.
The church promoting this has the right idea in promoting our national heritage, patriotism, etc, but this, unfortunately, is way too hot a political issue to focus on. Simply not a good idea. The liberal media and gun haters in this country will have a field day with this, destroying any attempt to see the good in their reasoning. They will twist it beyond recognition. And that is the truly sad part.
Many churches in smaller and rural areas sponsor Hunter's breakfasts, skeet clubs, mens groups that get together for reloading parties, etc. and nothing is thought of it. As gun ownership and hunting become ever more politically incorrect, even these harmless fellowship events are more infrequent. Another example of do-gooder liberalism chipping away at the fabric of our society. (You don't know what's good for you, I know whats good for you, and we'll do it my way...)
Conservative gun owners and 2nd Amendment supporters need to stay diligent and quietly determined to protect and defend our heritage, not allow history to be re-written, and stand firm against the tree-hugging gun haters that enjoy their rights and freedoms, purchased for them with the blood of our servicement and women, who carry and use guns!
Christians have traditionally rallied around the Cross not some sort of weapon. Similarly, the Bible does not advocate rallying around any weapon other than faith.
Regarding the 4th of July, the Declaration of Independence states that our basic unalienable rights come from the Creator. Consequently, celebrating the Creator and his gifts would be a most appropriate way of spending Independence day.
A church sponsored gun rally celebrating the 4th of July is problematic to say the least.
@Theophilus166@xanga - Dont agree with that at all..........just because you are a follower of Christ you still have the right to defend yourself or your family. If someone faced me with a gun and was going to kill my child...........Oh Yes! this mama would kill to defend her child. Just my opinion of course..........seems to be alot of back and forth here.........I would defend my child and I think God would be OK with that.
Well, if a church is going to advocate gun-use, I'd prefer they "promote responsible gun ownership and gun safety" as is mentioned in this post. Let's be honest- whether you like them or not, guns are here for good. Now that they are here, I'd prefer the people using them to actually know how to use them. As such, this promotion is little different than that of an "alright kids, if you're going to use fireworks- let's at least learn how to do it without killing ourselves- now shall we?"
I'm not a big fan of getting my foot-blown off by some uneducated idiot with a firearm. Gun safety education is a little under-appreciated.