Lately, the question of whether or not corporal punishment is a religious and parental duty has caused division among Christians, according to an
article on ABC News.Tyler Wallick, a fundamentalist Christian, says that it is out of faith and love that he spanks his children. He says that he only spanks his two sons when they are being dishonest or disrespectful. In order to support his disciplinary practices, Wallick cites Proverbs 13:24, which states: "He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly." Wallick further argues, "The bottom line is -- people who do not think it is OK to paddle their children do not believe God's word."
Wallick's beliefs that it is okay to spank children largely runs counter to the disciplinary methods that many child psychologists condone. Most parenting experts believe that while spanking has the potential to encourage violence in the mind of a child, other measures such as time-out and taking away privileges are more suitable methods to teach children that their actions are wrong.
Other Christians are strongly against spanking. The United Methodist Church issued a proclamation against all corporal punishment of children in 2004, and several Catholic dioceses have voiced their opinions against this disciplinary method.
Upon viewing an ad for a nylon whipping stick designed specifically for spanking children, Susan Lawrence, a Christian from Arlington, Mass., initiated a web-based crusade against spanking.
Lawrence, and many other Christians, believes that this debate points to much more than whether or not spanking is an acceptable punishment method. She points out that many Evangelicals are wrongly placing emphasis on the Old Testament, with its wrathful God, instead of the gentle Jesus of the New Testament.
The issue at hand here is how the Bible should be interpreted, and if all of the laws outlined in the Old Testament still apply to us today. Many modern Christians find that the Old Testament lays down various laws that are no longer relevant in today's society, and that no longer need to be obeyed.
Al Crowell, director of the San-Francisco based advocacy group Christians for Nonviolent Parenting, sheds some light on this issue.
"Why don't we also keep slaves now? Stoning our daughters who may be gotten pregnant before marriage? All that is in the Bible [Old Testament] too," Crowell said.
Do you agree or disagree with Wallick's justification of spanking children by citing the Proverbs verse? Do you think that all of the rules and regulations laid out in the Old Testament still apply to us today?
Comments (67)
As that one guy said, why not keep slaves and stone whores?
If you base your spanking on the Bible, but you ignore the other stuff, you're being a hypocrite.
I can't imagine Jesus whipping a child with a stick. (Or is that in the NT somewhere?)
"Why don't we also keep slaves now? Stoning our daughters who may be gotten pregnant before marriage? All that is in the Bible [Old Testament] too," Crowell said.
I would've said the same thing.
"Upon viewing an ad for a nylon whipping stick designed specifically for spanking children, "
LOL whaaat?
I guess sometimes these kids need some of that old fashioned Bible-discipline. Let's just feed them to the whales.
Hmmmm...I've thought about corporal punishment, but in the end, it's not really needed. Why do we have to spank our children just to prove a point? But I also admit that there are many things like time out and taking things away from children that seem a bit odd. Not only that, but parents lack follow-through and discipline. They also try to set up some reward system for doing things that they should be doing anyway, IE picking up toys and making their bed. Why do we give them an allowance for things like that? Parents simply need to be more disciplined and loving to their children. They need to teach them proper mannerisms and insure that they are doing what they should. I don't see it as being all that complicated.
Just use the technique that actually works.
Is taking away your child's desires going to work? Or is something a bit harsher required?
A spanking and denying priviliges are both techniques used in the scientific world. Shock therapy, which makes test animals fear doing a certain action, versus the reward system where mice have to get to a destination for a prize. Both work equally well in my opinion...
The gentle Jesus of the New Testament? We'll see.
I wish my diocese would voice its opinion against it. *sigh*
@aznspartan94@xanga - Umm, yeah mice and people are sort of different.
Jesus is gentle? Huh? She must have a seriously altered bible or have never read it.
Jesus who talked more about hell than anyone else in the bible? Jesus who's tongue is a two edged sword? Jesus who commanded people to pluck out their eye or cut off their hand if it causes them to sin? Jesus who came not to unite the world but to divide brother against brother? Jesus who is coming back to judge the world and cast the wicked off to eternal torment in the lake of fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?
I don't think Jesus is gentle, not by any means. He is loving and compassionate but I wouldn't mistake those for "gentle". Jesus is a Lion, and not a tame one.
I wasn't aware of the United Methodists stance against spanking. My church, a UM church, doesn't seem to be aware of it either. Or at least the parents who attend the church aren't, as a Sunday school teacher I've heard stories from the kids of how they've taken a spanking or two for their mistakes and how they all are eternally grateful to the person who influenced their parents toward that. (Okay, so they aren't yet grateful, they will be eventually though.)
@ohhh_kelsey@xanga - If you behave I don't think it would be a concern.
@Tom - Do you think the fruits of the Spirit were not present in Jesus then?
@TheGreatBout@xanga - What I am saying is contrasting the original post. I'm not saying Jesus can't be gentle, obviously the kids ran to Him because of His love for them. But, the article above refers to a Jesus who isn't willing that a child should be spanked, in stark contradiction to the Old Testament. The article also refers to God in the Old Testament is wrathful, as if to say He isn't at all loving. My point was to show that Jesus does indeed have wrath and isn't just a gentle cuddly teddy bear.
The Bible is pro-discipline. Not every kid needs spanked. I've known some kids who are far more impacted by a stern look, or taking away TV (heaven forbid), or fining them money. However, spanking is effective, when done correctly. It should not be done in anger, and it shouldn't be done for every infraction.
I was spanked growing up (for blatant rebellion and lying). I didn't turn into a snivelling doormat, I was never afraid of my parents, nor did I ever think it was okay to hit other kids or my parents. Kids are not rats, they don't learn only simple associations. Nor are most of them blooming idiots, they are able to learn the exceptions to the rules (in fact you have to in order to survive in our crazy world.).
well, the ten commandments are in the bible and most people still consider those a wise thing to obey.
"Well, I was spanked and I didn't turn out bad," is a terrible argument for spanking. Personally, I don't think corporal punishment is necessary, because while it IS a method, that does not make it appropriate, or even the most effective method. What counts as 'effective' is usually what the parents see as a first result- not the more important, and more obscure mental results. Using more gentle, non-physical guiding techniques, IF USED PROPERLY, can have a much more impacting result than whipping out a spoon and smacking somebody with it.
@LadyLibellule@xanga - Well, it wasn't a child, but...
"So he [Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area,
both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and
overturned their tables." (John 2:15)
As with all things in the Old Testament, you have to take the relevant passages in context. Commandments regarding "Stoning whores" was something ordained within a theocratic government that no longer exists, and such commandments are not binding on the Church-Age Gentile Christian. (Don't make me pull out my oft-repeated Acts 15 argument again.) Keeping slaves in the OT is something similar--these are not passages defining ethics, like the Ten Commandments and other moral commandments. These are governmental passages regarding how the nation of Israel was to be run. Those rules are basically by-laws from Israel's Constitution.
Proverbs, however, is wisdom literature. It's meant to be universally applicable advice, not specifically addressed to Israel nor being governmental laws.
My favorite Proverb on corporeal punishment is 23:13.
"Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you punish him with the rod, he will not die."
Yes and yes. There are some children that really don't need spanking; they'll get it before you lay a hand to them. However, I say don't withhold it if the child is being disrespectful or broke rules they know they shouldn't have broken. Now if you're going upside their head no matter what they do or don't do, that is child abuse. There's no need for that.
In general though, this is saying that you should not neglect to discipline your children. We are able to tell those children (especially when they get to be teenagers) that have not had real ground rules in their homes. If they did, they weren't enforced. There are very few children (VERY few) that can come out to be decent if they weren't raised properly at home.
I'm not saying that people who never spank are necessarily doing their children a disservice, but I find the arguments in this post weak.
"Spare the rod, spoil the child" is a principle, not a commandment.
The OT didn't command that people have slaves, and the NT didn't command that they didn't.
Saying the NT doesn't allow for corporal punishment is legalistic imo. I think spanking is often abused, but that doesn't warrant condemning it altogether. I believe it can be used appropriately.
I wish more people (Christians and non alike) understood that the OT law codes aren't binding on anyone other than Jews. People not recognizing that distinction betray a lack of understanding on their part imo.
i'm in favor of actual correction that's related to and proportionate to the offense. time-outs, etc. it's ridiculous to assert that spanking your kids doesn't promote violence. you are, after all, hitting them, whether with your hand or some other instrument. you are, after all, showing them that if they do something wrong, mommy and daddy are going to hit them. but it's not okay for them to hit someone--until they're all grown up and have kids of their own. no..just no. rejecting the concept of spanking and corporal punishment doesn't mean you reject discipline; in fact, it can (and should) lead to better, much more creative, more effective ways to discipline and correct your child.
@TrumvilleOrbison@xanga - I agree that just because parents don't spank their kids, it doesn't mean they don't discipline them at all. My dad has always had a mix of ways to punish me and so did my mom. But, also, spanking was always one of those ways but it doesn't mean it was used all the time or in a cruel way. I disagree with that it "promotes violence". I have never had the urge to go out and be violent toward someone. I think that we are all different human beings and we all respond differently to different actions. I guess some kids who get spanked will become violent, but the question is was it just the spanking that did it or were there other factors.
Oh, and my dad has never used Scripture as the only way to justify spanking either. I think doing anything solely because Scripture commands it is problematic. If someone cannot justify something also in their heart then they need to examine their conscience.
When spanking is done by a parent who is angry at the time, spanking is being abused.
If society still followed the scriptres as a whole it would be a better place. Yes whip your children "they shall surely not die". He who is without sin throw the first stone at the whores. Being a slave in the Bible was not anything that was forced on you. You made a vow and could not pay then you became a slave until you paid your debt and were freed. There is nothing wrong with this system. Regardless what the laws of society say now makes no difference compared to the scriptures. In the 1800s slaves were forced to be slaves and treated harshly. In Israel (scriptures) slaves were treated as part of the family and were automatically freed after 7 years or the debt was paid. People take scriptures out of context to try to prove their points. The scriptures do teach the spanking of children for discipline. It even says if you don't spank then you hate your children. The Word of God is the same yesterday today and forever.
Hebrews 12
Pr 22:6 - Show ContextTrain up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Pr 22:15 - Show ContextFoolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him
Matt 19
Mr 9:42 - Show ContextAnd13 Then
were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his
hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.
whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it
is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he
were cast into the sea.
Lets look at the world children run riot in school because there is no discipline! If we look at the world such as the shootings in school and other things! Discipline with love is something that is missing!
I agree with people also that hitting children mindlessly in an angry kind of way is almost as bad as the verse in Mark 9 42 says whoever shall offend one of these little ones it is better to be cast into a milestone in the sea! The bible has a warning to those that hurt little children!
A computer program has rules if you say in xanga disobey those rules xanga will delete your account! If you say break the rules of say the country by driving past the speed limit you will get a fine.
The problem is in our society is that people do not know that if they break rules used for there safety they will get punished!
Because they have not been taught it as children!
Discipline is needed until the age of reason comes into force when people know things are wrong and will not do it!
A story that I was once told was of a young child that knew that it did things wrong and wanted punishment so his concius could be clear! He recieved the punishement and he was more happier.
I have possibility of recieving the love of god in judgement aswell as love, as I do not want to put my hand in a plug socket or do something stupid.
Gods rules of love are set down for our good!
Quite honestly I don't give a crap what the bible does or doesn't say about spankings, or anything for that matter. If you are my kid and you are acting up, either in public or in the privacy of the home, you are going to get your ass blistered. None fo that counting or standing there and calling your name whilst you still act up bull.
There are already way too many spoiled little brats in the orld because parents refuse to punish and spank their children. Mine will not be one of them. Spankings worked for my parents and it worked for their'sm, too so far be it for me to fix something that isn't broken.
i do not believe that any parent is capable of carrying out a physically painful action without any anger whatsoever. hitting another human being is physical abuse, period. and i do not want my children to learn that responding physically is acceptable in any situation other than self-defense.