I imagine many of you have heard of Rick Warren, Pastor of the Saddleback mega-Church and author of
Purpose Driven Life. What do you make of his
flip-flop on Proposition 8?
Here's the gist, if you've not read or heard about it:
Monday night on CNN's Larry King Live, Pastor Rick Warren apologized for his support of Prop. 8, California's voter-approved marriage protection amendment, saying he has "never been and never will be" an "anti-gay or anti-gay marriage activist."
"During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going," Warren told the CNN audience on Monday. "The week before the -- the vote, somebody in my church said, 'Pastor Rick, what -- what do you think about this?' And I sent a note to my own members that said, I actually believe that marriage is -- really should be defined, that that definition should be -- say between a man and a woman."
And yet, just a few weeks before the election, Warren said the following to his church:
"The election's coming just in a couple of weeks, and I hope you're praying about your vote. One of the propositions, of course, that I want to mention is Proposition 8, which is the proposition that had to be instituted because the courts threw out the will of the people. And a court of four guys actually voted to change a definition of marriage that has been going for 5,000 years. Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear."
What puzzles me is why such a conservative voice would waffle? The Gay community isn't going to embrace him for it and the conservative Christian community is going to be far more irritated with apologies than if he held the hard line.
Could it be that Rick Warren is evolving from a pastor to a politician?
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Comments (38)
He is just picking his battles. Yes marriage is between a man and a woman. But no that issues is not his mission in life. As he said, he is not an anti gay marriage activist. But as he also said, he dos not support homosexual marriage.
i have always been wary of Rick Warren and am surprised you think he is conservative. He totally lost my respect at the inauguration when he 'prayed' how all the angels in heaven were rejoicing on that day...that is malarkey. I don't care who is president the angels do not rejoice at who man sets up in government over the people. Anyway.
What's the difference between a politician and a pastor?
It's possible... but it seems that way with many pastors now.
Rick Warren is a wimp. He wrote one really great book, but it's gone to his head and he thinks he is the Apostle Paul. He needs to get him a T shirt that says, "Ichabod." It would be most fitting these days.
this is so saddening
i think that its mature of him to change his position in a respectful manner. maybe he is realizing that its not our place to define what other people should do in their lives. its only God's place to judge us and tell us how we should be living. not prop 8.
so maybe he has seen the light.
@quiet_strength - Agreed
God describes homosexuals in the bible as those who have been given to their own debased mind.
"It is the traditional, historic, universal definition of marriage: one
man and one woman, for life. And every culture for 5,000 years, and
every religion for 5,000 years, has said the definition of marriage is
between one man and a woman."
"We should not let two percent of the population determine to change a
definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture
and every single religion for 5,000 years."
What's Pastor Rick been smoking? His own Bible offers plenty of instances where marriage was not between "one man and a woman"!
I don't know if he's evolving from a pastor to a politician (I thought Christians didn't believe in evolution anyway!). I think he's just rather ignorant.
@LadyLibellule@xanga - and as for a certain someone, I think God sums it up in James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways
kudos for him.
@denisethornton919 - Scripture has no place in politics, it never has and it never will. God calls all CHRISTIANS to follow the law and be accountable to other Christians. He doesn't EVER tell Christians to judge non-Christians are hold them accountable to God's standards--in fact, quite the opposite. God tells us he doesn't like divorce--yet he let Moses write divorce certificates despite this.
The lesson? Hold accountable those in your church, don't hold accountable those outside of the church. If we want America to be moral its going to take the GOSPEL, not a law.
Also, the fact that Christians think that same-sex marriage being legalized is an assault on their own marriages is ridiculous. Legal marriage and marriage in God's eyes are NOT the same thing.
So long as churches are not required to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies all is well. If legislation requiring churches to perform gay marriages is ever passes I will personally fight it as hard as I possibly can, but that is an entirely separate issue from gay marriage in general.
@joelstud76@xanga - Joel tolerance is acceptance and I for one will never accept this
I'm a pastor, and I don't support Prop 8.
That said, I'm not against it, either. I just think that the law won't affect the hearts of gays and lesbians. Whether they're allowed to get married or not, they're still in sin. My efforts will go towards preaching the gospel so that the Holy Spirit will change their hearts. The Kingdom of God gains nothing by forcing people to change their behavior due to the law. Only the Holy Spirit can bring real change.
@DPG777@xanga -
How is this scriptural? I remember Moses allowing divorces despite God's objection to them. Why do we enforce the law when we are supposed to share the Gospel? The law is not the Gospel and the Gospel is not the law. Instead, sanctification comes from acceptance of the Gospel and submission to the law comes from sanctification. Expecting submission to God's law without acceptance of the Gospel is fruitless (or, as Matthew puts it in chapter 7, like "throwing pearls before swine.")
Where does Christ say that tolerance is acceptance? Where does Christ command us to hold our neighbors accountable to the law? He doesn't--he only says to love them. Love them, share with them the Gospel, and should they come to believe, THEN hold them accountable as brothers in Christ.
@Theophilus166@xanga -
I respect your opinion a TON and pray that God will be behind you and soften the hearts of those that hear you speak.
@joelstud76@xanga - What kind of world would be formed by allowing such deviancy ,
Whether we allow sin or not it will happen. You sin. I sin. Everybody sins. Trying to hide sin behind a law does no good. Any man/woman who does not proclaim Christ as his savior is in defiance to God--that man/woman could be straight or gay, could be a murderer or a gentle kindergarten teacher--either way, if you do not profess faith you are in defiance to God. If we're going to legalize against defiance to God's will, lets ban all religions except for Christianity.
Oh wait. Human law means nothing, the Gospel has infinitely more power.
@Theophilus166@xanga - I stand with you , but were you aware of the gay left that seeks to make preachers accountable for hate speech for preaching against homosexuality. These people must be stopped , and the majority can no longer remain silent
@DPG777@xanga- Those are two completely different issues.
Also, I'm not one for trying to use political clout to advance the Kingdom, either. I'm not opposed to political involvement, but when we try to rally all the Christians together to vote for something in order to advance the Kingdom of God, I wonder if we really understand how the Kingdom of God is built.
@Theophilus166@xanga - There is nothing wrong with taking an active role in government, if anything more Christians need to get involved and be heard, preaching inside four walls is good and honorable, but my church is in the valley of the dead, we are to walk amongst them and bring life
@DPG777@xanga -
And you bring life through laws? I find that hard to believe. Bringing faith into politics does nothing but breed hostility towards Christians. That's all well and good if bringing Christianity into politics was Scriptural, but I don't think it is.
More Christians should be heard, but it should be in bars and brothels and at shelters--not in courtrooms.