Wednesday, 01 April 2009
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If Time Travel Were Possible, How Does It Fit into Christianity?
If Christianity were true, can we time-travel? I'm inclined to doubt it. If I want to edit old videotapes of me as a baby, I'd have to still have them available, saved in some vault or closet. The idea that we can go back and edit time suggests to me that there is some very old film of the universe preserved in some metaphysical vault than can be accessed.
For the Christian, that vault is the mind of God, and I don't think God likes us enough to let us edit his memory. But isn't this analogy too simplistic? Time is hard to understand because it is simple and basic; it is woven into the seams of this universe.
It seems, at any rate, that time-travel rubs wrongly on some worldviews more than on others. Materialism, which holds that everything that exists is reducible to this physcal universe (call it world A), would certainly be threatened if the dimensions of this universe can be traversed. Time-travel suspends something greater than a natural law. Even if all we discover after we've crossed time is a universe (call it world B) .000001 identical to ours, the point is that we have discovered something that cannot be scientifically perceptible from this universe, world A.
What do you think about time-travel – is it possible? And is it inconsistent with some worldviews?
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Comments (51)
I'm not Christian and time travel is still inconsistent with my worldview. To me, it implies that all realities have to exist simultaneously and completely removes the concept of duration.
If it was possible, we would be able to show everyone who is right, and who is wrong.
It depends on how you view time. Does killing your grandfather as a child make you cease to exist, or does it simply spawn a new timeline where you don't exist (leaving the one where you do exist still intact)?
I'd be more worried about religious zealots using time travel to further their causes. Like bringing Jesus into the 21st century just so they can say, "See? He does exist!" Poor Jesus would think he was going insane...
Then again, a lot of people who are that zealous don't believe in science, so they'd think a time machine was a tool of Satan, put on earth to trick us into doing something sinful.
Time is an illusion.
yes, time is only an illusion.
@QuantumStorm@xanga - win. you can't time travel because time doesn't exist. time is the measurement we put on things. it exists just as much as an inch exists, or a mile. we believe in time because we age, and so does everything around us. but this is not evidence for time; this is evidence of a natural order of things. it makes life much easier to understand and eternity in general if you stop believing in time.
If we understand "eternal" as meaning "outside of time" rather than "time going on forever..."
Then God is outside of time. Thus, God sees all of time from Creation to its final Unmaking as one single continuous moment. From a God's-eye perspective, the future has already begun and the past is still ongoing--that God has no concept of hours and days "passing" as humans do.
So let's run with this theory, and say that Timelessness is a quality of the Eternal--specifically God.
We as humans are temporal beings, not yet eternal. Paul says that one day, when we are resurrected, we will have "celestial" bodies, incorruptible--and perhaps then we will share in God's quality of Timelessness. (Of course "one day" "yet" "then" all being human time-concepts that may or may not actually apply.)
But as we are now, I think that time-travel is beyond us simply because in order to move through time we would have to, for a moment, leave the timestream--in essence, to transcend time--which is currently a quality not given to finite humanity. When we are transfigured, perhaps then it will be possible for us.
In short: I believe time travel is possible, but not for humans. I believe time travel is possible--and even part of the nature of--God.
See, God--who is intrinsically timeless, atemporal--allowed himself to be incarnated as a temporal human. For thirty-some-odd years he experienced hours, weeks, minutes, just as any human does. But see, if he started out timeless and then left his state of timelessness to enter time, he simultaneously still would have been present in timelessness--because to once be present and then be not-present would be a function of the time that God does not experience. Jesus, in leaving heaven, didn't leave behind a vacancy--God was still on the throne.
If I'm not bordering on heresy, that might go towards explaining how God and Jesus, though the same person, could speak to one another and how one could know things the other didn't. It's almost like in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure where Bill and Ted see themselves-from-one-day-in-the-future--same dudes, but with different experiences.
Then, when Jesus ascended and returned to a state of timelessness, you have two disctinct personas of the same person--the one who experience time, experienced incarnation-as-a-human, experienced pain and death and temptation--and one who had not, who (in a sense) had never left.
There's more. If a once-temporal God re-enters atemporality, yet with all the experiences of his time as a human, then those experiences would exist all throughout the timestream. That is, that Jesus would be able to assist with Creation millenia before he himself was born, or to physically appear to people with the same body he had ascended with. Remember when it says that Enoch "walked with God"? Did Enoch walk with God-the-father-wearing-a-temporary-body, or did Jesus walk with him? If Joshua had gone up to the "Captain of the LORD's Army" and checked his hands, would he have seen nail-prints from nails that hadn't even been forged yet?
Think about it. If you believe in pre-incarnate "Theophany," does that not make Jesus a chrononaut?
A few final points: in the Old Testament, there's a passage where God stops the sun from moving. Where Israel needed more time before nightfall to win a battle, so Joshua prayed, and the sun didn't move for a whole day. We moderns of course scoff at such legends, saying that if the Earth had really stopped rotating, it would have been a disaster.
Perhaps a localized temporal disturbance (what our Dungeons and Dragons friends would call a Time Stop) occured instead? Perhaps time continued to pass for the rest of the world while in this one valley the sun still shone--or perhaps the entire battle took place in between ticks of a clock? If God truly is atemporal and thus can control Time, it wouldn't be a stretch.
...
We humans are four-dimensional creatures: we exist in height, width, depth, and time. It stands to reason that God is a fifth-dimensional (or more!) creature. If that's the case, he would be able to step in and out of time as easily as you or I can step on or off a dance floor. He would be able to leave the timestream whereever he wanted and re-enter at any place he wanted. And that, from our perspective, would appear like time-travel.
But I don't think we humans, unaided, will be able to do such a thing, at least not until we are resurrected.
@LadyLibellule@xanga - I don't believe in science. I think this computer I'm typing on only exists to make me do something sinful.
Crap, it just did! Stupid infernal heathen machine! *smash* *smash*
Oh boy. I don't think there are alternate dimensions, so I don't think there is time travel (because that would result in alternate dimensions -- well.. harry potter vs. back to the future time travel theories i guess.. but moving on...). Like it was said up there ^^^, God is outside the dimension of time, of course. But here, as we are now on Earth, I don't see any reason to believe in alternate dimensions or time travel. Especially when looking at scripture.
Just to mess with everyone's concepts, we are all time travelers already. In the time it's taken you to read this sentence, you've traveled from one point in time to another without even thinking about it.
And anyone who wants to can alter what happens in time: by making a simple decision in the present, you'll change what happens in the future.
But more seriously. If I'm remembering the theory of relativity correctly, time is not a universal constant-- thus the faster someone travels, the slower they experience time compared to someone stationery. Alternately, if someone were to travel faster than the speed of light, they would go backwards in time as a matter of course. (It's been a while since I studied that, so I'm open to correction from any physics majors who may be hanging around here.)
You would theoretically accomplish something similar if you encountered the event horizon of a black hole-- the closer you got to it, the faster you'd observe time passing, until you went completely in, when you would start to see time reversing. (At least, so I once read in a book on cosmology. Don't ask me for the equations.)
I don't think these ideas do much for my faith either way, but they're sure fun to think about.
C. S. Lewis has an(other!!!) interesting point though: Why do we all seem to regard the passage of time as something remarkable-- "Look how much he's grown! Has it been that long? Was that only last week?"-- if we are really creatures who belong exclusively to a world where being in time is as natural as being in air?
@LadyLibellule@xanga - I'd be worried about atheistic time-travellers who'd go back to put locks on Jesus' tomb. @QuantumStorm@xanga - @yet_still_learning@xanga - Why is it an illusion?
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - Time is ultimately a human construct used to describe sequences or causality (kinda like asking yourself, "Why are protons positive?")
Food for thought - http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/in-no-time
It's like the theory of parallel universes. The universe was once as small as an electron which moves so fast it could be in two places at once...meaning there could be parallel universes where different periods of time exist...say milestones in the history of the universe.
moving a person to a parallel universe is not possible, only small particles could travel through wormholes (assuming parallel universes exist). you don't know where you would end up, either. you could end up on a different planet or lightyears away from earth. you could end up inside a planet and die immediately. you wouldn't know exactly which period of the universe you would end up in in earths history if you land on earth. the earth was once toxic to modern life (no oxygen). so it would be very risky and there would be a 1 in a trillion chance of landing where you would want to go.
@LadyLibellule@xanga - i'm a Christian, but i believe in science. people who don't believe in science are ignorant.
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - but the rock was heavy and jesus can do anything. plus, if they were athiests and didn't believe in God, wouldn't seeing Jesus actually make them believe?
@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - very interesting. i remember having a discussion about that in geophysical science (that class asked lots of questions). It's deffinately fun to think about, but it hurts my brain :D. Going in a black hole must be similar to time travel, then!
@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - i agree. it doesn't change my faith, but fun to think on.
@QuantumStorm@xanga - I think I understand what you mean. Time is a construct, as language is a construct. But certainly language represents something, and when I mean going back in time, I really mean "Can one change something that happened in the past?" Whether time is relative or not is somewhat related but not to the point; it's the question of "Can we manipulate time?
I enjoyed the read. It sort of left me puzzled and hungry for a cookie. It seems then that time is in the same quandry as consciousness and the validity of mathematics are in.
@danielle_thexdino@xanga - You're right; they may believe in Jesus; I was thinking specifically of the person who doesn't want God to exist and would rather silence him (as the authorities according to the Gospels desired).
@ChrisRusso@xanga - I liked especially your point about God stopping time for a day. that was an interesting way of looking at it; perhaps God did have the battle proceed between two ticks of a second!
But much of what you said will require multiple readings for me to grasp it.
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - "I'd be worried about atheistic time-travellers who'd go back to put locks on Jesus' tomb."
So what? Isn't teleportation through rock one of Jesus' powers?
@LadyLibellule@xanga - Point taken. In your example, it's not worry about Jesus; Jesus exists or doesn't whatever we say; and in mine it's the same. I'm worried about those particular atheists who'd go back to put locks on Jesus' tomb, partly for the futility of locking the tomb, and partly that they won't have their citizen passes for the Roman guard.
@nyclegodesi24@xanga - the romans already tried to put a lock on that tomb and failed ;)
@squanto_07@xanga - really? haha i didn't know that.
the stone they put in front of it was the equivilant of a lock. they were trying to lock Jesus in and keep his disciples out. it was an immovable door, but Jesus, or his angel(it never really says which) moved it easily.
@QuantumStorm@xanga - @yet_still_learning@xanga - @harmonyminusmelody@xanga -
If time is an illusion why does time slow down to a crawl as a traveler approaches the speed of light?
This effect was predicted by Einstein and later proved by modern technology.