Guest post by Clayton King
Do you want them to fail or succeed?I had to ask this question recently to a pastor who telephoned me with some pretty strong opinions about “all these new, young pastors who don’t know anything about how to do church.” He called me because he knew I was friends with some of these young guys, and he couldn’t get ahold of them so he called me…I guess to see if he could turn me against them or get some dirt on them to affirm his ill-feelings towards them and their churches.
I am relatively young, and at 36 years old, have already been in ministry for 22 years. Many of my friends in ministry are my age and younger, while many are also more seasoned and a bit older chronologically. I love having colleagues and brothers that are both older and younger. The younger guys remind me that I need to stay fresh, hungry, and creative. The older men of God remind me that I must stay grounded, faithful, and consistent.
But as the church in America goes through a season of rapid change (and that is what is happening right now, whether you admit the obvious or not), I sense a growing chasm between these 2 age groups; the young guys that God is using and the older guys that God has and is still using.
It doesn’t have to be this way, but it will continue to be as long as older, more mature pastors keep throwing out a vibe like the one I spoke to over the phone.
Not every older pastor is this way, at least not all the ones I know. But this guy was exceptionally pompous. I asked him if the young pastor in question had ever preached heresy. Had he ever been caught in a scandal? Was the word on the street that this guy was a liar, a thief, a skirt-chaser, or a theological liberal? The answer to all of these questions was “no.”
So I asked, “Then why are you so angry at him? What has he done to you? What has he said or done that has you so torn up over him and his church?” The response proved the real motivation for the phone call. Simply put…the pastor was envious, jealous, territorial, competitive, and embarrassed.
“I am just sick of everyone around here talking about that church, and how many people they baptize and how many people get saved over there. There is no way they baptized over 1,000 people last year. Those numbers can’t be real. I have been in this town for 17 years and we can’t even get people to come to free concerts with free food, so I know they can’t be doing everything they say they are doing! Their numbers are inflated, they have to be!”
And there it was! The real issue came to the surface. The older pastor had grown tired, complacent, or lazy, or maybe he had been beaten down trying to lead a church that did not want to grow or serve or change, a church that did not want to be lead. Whatever the reason underneath the accusatory tone, it had NOTHING to do with the young pastor and EVERYTHING to do with the insecurity and jealousy of the older pastor.
My question to him was a simple one. “You have said some pretty ugly things about pastor **** and several other young pastors who are my friends. And you have not accused them of a sin nor have you heard them preach heresy or anything unbiblical. So do you want them to fail or to succeed?”
He sat silent for at least 10 seconds, and finally admitted, “Well, I don’t really know. I have never been asked that question. I guess I really don’t want them to succeed, especially pastor **** because if his church is really reaching that many people in our own backyard, then that means we’re not really doing anything at our church, and that makes us look pretty bad.”
Bingo! He admitted what I already knew. At least he heard himself say it.
Comments (28)
When confronted with what makes us uncomfortable we have a tendency to become defensive. Admitting errors isn't easy. I hope the older pastor realizes that change, though difficult to accept, is easier to implement when he remembers WHY he became a man of God to begin with. Look to Him for guidance and He shall show you the way.
I'm hoping you are able to provide encouragement to this pastor in his ministry. Pride is always a great temptation in ministry and it becomes harder and harder to keep your eyes on Jesus and remain faithful to your calling when you're not seeing visible results while the church down the street is bursting at the seems.
I do have a concern about churches that grow quickly. We need to be sure to be nurturing and discipling new converts but very often that isn't happening. The church ends up growing wide but not deep...But that's another topic for another blog...
Hello I noticed that you subscribed to me, so I thought I would drop you a comment. This isn't xanga, but it is...I'm confused..
I hope he has a change of heart. The last thing the Church needs is more division. I feel bad for him.
When we can learn to rejoice at the success of the successful and strengthen the weak, we are on our way to true success. The world understands competition but not cooperation in religion. They think our goal is to toot our own horn and put down the other guy. It's about time we showed our true colors and supported the preaching of the gospel to the saving of the lost. Rather than condemning the jealous pastors, we should do as naphtali_deer has said and reach out to help and support them also.
That is sad, but it resonates with a sentiment that is prevalent in churches today. Unfortunately.
I didn't really need to read any further past your title, lol, for this verse I saw this morning to come to mind...
Proverbs 24:17
Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
I really hate to see a preacher with that intention, but I needed the reminder that ALL fall short, even those in authoritative offices with in the church.
God's best to your church and this situation, :)
In these "last days", more and more churches... and I suppose 'Pastors' are going to fall into the catagory of the apostesy; the falling away. They are losing their first love and their focus. It affects all that they do and think.
You are quite right about the generational gap that is widening. I worry (not sure worry is the right word...) that our church is able to relate to both generations and do so without moving into entertainment. It can be a thin line sometimes between worship and entertainment. We have 3 services to try and accomplish this, and each has a different flavor. The noisy one is growing and busting! LOL...
I should have added that that 3rd service also has many, many young people accepting the call to Christ in a personal relationship each Sunday. Many more than the other two services. So it is reaching and connecting. Now the important step comes. Discipleship and growing...
@AnamcharaConcepts@xanga - "When confronted with what makes us uncomfortable we have a tendency to become defensive."
I think this not only applies to religion, but to anything really. Smokers don't like to be told they're damaging their bodies as well as the health of others, because it's too hard for them to quit. It's not impossible for them to do, but they may feel or think that they can't. No one likes to admit they're wrong; that's a natural reaction or feeling. But to face the thing we fear or don't understand takes courage, and helps us to not only gain more wisdom and experience, but understanding and empathy for others who may face the same things.
@ChristiansandMormons -
That comment does apply to anything. In this particular case, the elder pastor needs the understanding that without change his flock will continue to stagnate. None of us knows the answer to everything. We need to learn and grow daily. Instead of having those feelings of jealousy maybe he should look to embrace some of the younger pastors ways. In turn they may learn some wisdom from his many years on this earth. Cooperation and comprise between people are an essential factor to the success of any action or relationship.
a religious spirit will always get angry.
The pastor who called you is the failure.
I hope you spoke Gospel to that pastor. It sounds like he needs to be reminded of what God's grace really means for each of us.
That pastor (and probably most Christians, myself included) ought to be encouraged to read through Numbers 12 and 16....jealousy is not something God treats lightly.
The goal in life is to make things better; like paradise. If we work with people we don't neccessarily like, but are capable in helping us achieve a better way of life, we are the better person for doing so.
I don't know if that applies in this case, but it's something to remember, no matter what.
That pastor is showing the solid instincts of a businessman. Perhaps he's in the wrong line of work.
@lifesbrokenpromiseshurt@xanga - You're in Revelife which is like church except you don't have to be quiet or stick around for the boring sermons, and nobody makes you sing along with crappy "praise music."
this gap really, really hurts me.
i'm a pastor's wife, who has served alongside several of these type of pastors.
and we've been fired each time that the ministry began to suceed, over silly, personal preferences that the pastor holds.
those in the minstry really need to step back from their situations, and decide whether tearing each other apart is really worth it in the long run.
we have attempted everything possible to "make it" in these situations, but the pastor inevitably decides that they don't want to know us, don't care to....and i think this is where some of these problems stem from.
how bout some of these older pastors decide that they want to get to know some of the younger ones...rather than judging from a distance. they might find that they have a lot more in common...and can be reenergized by a fresh relationship. it could be mutally beneficial...wisdom from the established pastor, new passion from the younger.
we, as the young pastors in these situations, have attempted to reach out. and have been rebuffed, every time.
why?
I want Revelife to fail because it makes Christians look bad.
That is unfortunate. I have never encountered that situation before so I can't really personally relate- but I do understand the bitter rivalship between Churches and it has got to Stop!
I hope in your ministry you can be succesfull (as much as possible) in bringing some form of a unity based in Truth to your area.
Let's face it...no one likes change. The older generation from my church complain about the new changes like contemporary music. [My former church is VERY conservative]. It's sad...they have two different services. Contemporary and traditional.
But it seems that pastor feels threatened that the younger generation on fire for God and he just doesn't want anyone to steal his thunder. He needs to remember, we as Christians are here to edify the Kingdom of God.
@AnamcharaConcepts@xanga - I totally agree. Everyone has something to offer if we're willing to learn. We just need to give people a chance. I'm sure each of those pastors have something that would help benefit the others if they were willing to give each other a chance.
I know this isn't the main issue, but I'm disturbed by our "numbers" based ministry mindset as opposed to a repentance based ministry. We dunk'em or sprinkle'em so quick just to publish to the world that OUR ministry is successful. Yikes. Pride is the issue here and also bad doctrine. Forgive us Father, for making the winning and ministering of souls a numbers competition.
What do Philippians 2:1-5, Ephesians 4:11-16, and Titus 2 indicate should be happening in Christian churches?
We would have wonderful Christian churches even if just "the Golden Rule" was lived. I have reworded the just mentioned: "Think before I say and do things, would I want them said and done to me?"