As I noted in my blog last week,
I am a huge geek. I watch science fiction, collect comic books and have a growing collection of Dune novels. Sure, it's not growing right now, but that's only because the next book in the saga has yet to come out. When it does, the collection shall grow some more. But for now, it is what it is: all 6 original novels, all 6 prequel novels, the 2 finale novels and the new interim novel. There's the two made-for-TV miniseries, the computer game and the old compendium encyclopedia that is now impossible to find because it is, and I quote, "not a part of the Dune canon".
Last night, I finished reading the newest release,
Paul of Dune from the new Heroes of Dune interquel tetralogy (meaning that there will be four books, interwoven into the original Dune works).
As I read through this book, and the entire series as a whole, one theme that jumped out at me was the use of religion. The original book was written in such a way that the commentary on both religion and politics were apparent. In fact, I think that I got more of a religious sense, at least when it comes to who I am as a person, from the Dune novels than I did from The Bible itself. And that is quasi-dangerous. That's the same way Scientology started. There's a Jedi religion based on
Star Wars (that I would totally submit to if Star Wars hadn't poached ideas from Dune to begin with). These are just a few of the religious affirmations I got from this science fiction series.
God doesn't act for immediate benefit, but thinks long term. We can't be certain just how long term God's mindset is. Hell, we don't even know how long God's
days are. So, while we may lament as to why God doesn't intervene
now to make our lives better
today, there is no way we can say whether or not what we go through is a part of a greater, long term plan. In other words, as Paul in Dune indicated, it would be easy to give humanity what it wants... but infinitely harder to give humanity what it
needs. And what it needs is to stay on a path for the greatest benefit long term. Generations may hate it. Generations may turn away from it. But in the longer term, grander scale, we cannot comprehend the good that will come from our struggles today.
Fanatics will always be the worst side effect to religion. We saw it with Christians during the Crusades. We see it today with Islamic fanatics. We see it any time Tom Cruise goes on TV to preach Scientology
(ok, that example might be a little out there, but work with me). In that same way, Paul Muad'Dib's followers, those who treated him as the figurehead of a religion, were unwavering, uncompromising and believed in their heart of hearts that their work was good because it was ordained by "God". This fanaticism, in the book, fuelled the jihad of the planets that would not convert. And though military leaders were given specific orders, the rank and file would go against those orders, claiming it was "Muad'Dib's holy orders". Sound familiar?
God is forgiving and accepting. His subjects may not be. Take a look at everything that is going on in the world today. War in Iraq... terrorism between Israel and Palestine... bias against homosexuals and homosexuality. In my religious upbringing, I had always been taught that it was God that was forgiving. That people, if they sinned and were truly repentent upon those sins, would be forgiven and given access to Heaven. It's the people down here, with their interpretation of His words, that act as a fist of judgment against them. Likewise in Dune, particularly when the God-Emperor Leto II ruled, it was a sense that he was more interested in the generalities of keeping humanity on a Golden Path than the specifics. I believe that God acts more in generalities, judging us on whether or not we were good people, while taking the laundry list of sins and tossing it aside. At least that's my hope.
Without God, we scatter. And I use the term "scatter" specifically. After the death of Leto II the God-Emperor, humanity found itself scattering, moving away from the old Galactic Empire and going to the farthest reaches of the universe. Likewise, if there was nothing to believe in, nothing to follow, I believe we as humans would also scatter. Maybe not physically, but emotionally and mentally. How many people, upon the death of a loved one, were comforted by words "He's in a better place now"? I know I was. If there was no belief in that "better place", nor in the idea that the "better place" even exists, how many of those people would be pushed to frightening extremes? Without that finality, we leave ourselves open to dangerous possibilities, as those involved in "The Scattering" found out.
Religion, ultimately, is a human practice. I know this kind of contradicts some of my previous points, but allow me a moment to explain this. When Paul Atredies became Muad'Dib, the Fremen people of Arrakis rallied around him and made him their religion. They had worshipped sandworms before him. Every religion they followed had a tangible beginning, embellished by man and fed to the masses. How much of our current religion is similarly embellished? Ultimately, the religious order and ceremony, traditional as they may be, had a tangible beginning. It wasn't something pre-ordained in humanity. It started somewhere, meaning it could also end somewhere.
While we are individually responsible for ourselves, we are a part of a greater picture. This is more or less a follow-up to my first point. As I said up there, our struggles today fit into a much larger scale. In some cases, the ways may be the most minute of all... in others, they could be beyond our wildest expectations. Who knows what little effect we may have. Duncan Idaho didn't when he killed Leto II. He just knew is was what he was "destined" to do.
Dune has also strengthened a lot of my political and social beliefs, but those are other ideas to get into another day. For today, however, you can take a look, open up a little, to how this fictional work helped forge my religious identity.
Did any piece of literature help forge part of who you are?
True
Comments (25)
lol wow- the writings of man has forged your concept of 'religion'?
I
know you weren't looking for reprimand, nor will it do any good- but
you need to take a serious look to see if taking your 'religion' (or
doctrine) from books that are written in "human wisdom" is a really
good idea.
Is God accepting? I thought he required us to
Change our life for him and that the result of not changing was
separation from God.
Fanatics are bad (essentially)? Jesus and
his Apostles were the "fanatics" of his day- they never killed, and we
often refer to people who murder in the name of God as fanatics
(unfortunately) but if a person was to stand up and stand out for God,
they would be labeled a fanatic (most likely).
Something to think about.
Not that I know of...I have read many good books, but none that I would say would forge who I am. Well, save the Bible, that is!
I'm a Battlestar Galactica nut myself. That series is all religion and politics. But mostly religion. I think it is vastly superior to most other sci-fi stories for several reasons. I liked Dune, but they lost me after about the third book in the original story.
@deepestrecesses - Well, to be honest, the blog lost something in translation between my site and Revelife. Mainly it's the title... while it didn't really do much to particularly forge my beliefs (that was solely the bible and biblical study), what it did do was reaffirm the beliefs that I already had by taking them and putting them into a different... I guess the word would be environment.
I will definitely think about your points though. Thank you for sharing them
Very cool! I'm going to have to try that series. It's so cool how God can speak to every person through the things which interest him/her most. I don't even want to think of the number of books which have reaffirmed the things I learned in the Bible.
Pop culture is dangerous with regard to religion. Christianity is age old. In fact it's so ancient that in this modern world it has nearly been forgotten.
Frank Herbert, lampoons the idea of Messiah in his writings and with the Bene Gesserit he lampoons the Catholic Chuch and old orders like the Jesuits. The sublety of his religious typography is incidious.
About the Crusades... Remember that lands that had been Christian for centuries had fallen to the sword of Islam. The first Crusades were wars of liberation. They were attempts to restore Christianity to formerly Christian lands, not wars of mindless conquest. For the life of me I don't understand why Islam gets a free pass for nearly destorying Christianity in the Holy Land.
The Dune series shaped a lot of how I look at my faith in the sense of comprehending why Messiah HAS to also be sovereign, omniscient God, who can bring about His purposes because they are His will, not by manipulation. I think that's kind of ironic since Frank Herbert wrote in one of his own introductions that one purpose of writing the series was to "debunk the messiah myth."
I saw a lot of Christianity echoed in Harry Potter, which I know some people will find blasphemous but whatever.
In all my extensive fiction reading I've yet to find a book or series that managed to exclude God. I always learn something about Him.
I even read the first two His Dark Materials books (which I found to be lame and slow and boring, which is why I never finished the trilogy) and, despite Philip Pullman's goal of making anti-narnia, anti-God books, I found God in them.
I think it's impossible to write a fictional story and leave God out because God created everything there is, and He is in everything He made. It's impossible to write a fictional tale without someone being able to draw parallels.
@deepestrecesses - "I thought he required us to Change our life for him and that the result of not changing was separation from God."
All that's required for entrance into Heaven is to accept Christ as Savior. He works in you after that, to get you to change. You can refuse to change and still go to Heaven, it's just that people begin to wonder why you won't change if you believe Christ is your savior. We're separated from God by sin in general, which is taken away by Christ.
If you had to change to get to Heaven no one would ever make it. Even the "holiest" people you can think of never managed to totally shed their human desires and thus never fully changed.
@princess1505angel@xanga - Yes, this is true. You are very correct that any/all change within us comes from the power of God- that is the Spirit working within us.
Thank you for correcting my wording.
However, my point still stands that the very common statement that says "God is accepting" is incorrect to some degree. It is not a license to sin- or go on sinning. He is loving; but he does require our life. Part of accepting Christ also involves GIVING your life to him. You will be changed.
As for Harry Potter- I don't even want to get into that discussion right now lol. It's way to long and not applicable to this thred. I will say that I think it is a huge mistake to take doctrine from movies.
@deepestrecesses - "'God is accepting' is incorrect to some degree."
All I know is that Christ died for me while I was still a sinner, even knowing that I'd spend a period of time on the opposing team....that's pretty darned accepting in my book.
(I think I threw up in my mouth a little over the HP movies. *gag* The movies suck. I hate them. I know what you were getting at but I am too distracted by you referencing the movies. *retches*)
Ok, I'm better now: I didn't say I took doctrine from movies or books. I take doctrine from the Bible. But I hope you'd agree with me that the entire world functions on the "laws" (physical, interpersonal, etc) that God put in place. As such, it's impossible to not see God everywhere you look. It's straight from Romans 1:20. I've found random non-Christian fiction stories so much more fascinating from a Christian viewpoint than I did when I wasn't a Christian bc of this.
And don't feel guily for not trying to win me back to the anti-potter side: having grown up in a strictly no-Harry household, I've heard it all a thousand times anyway. :)
@princess1505angel@xanga - haha, I'm glad we can agree to not go into the HP issues. lol
I know that you said that you don't take your doctrine from books/movies other than the bible (and by doctrine I mean any kind of moral instruction of Truth) but in the post the author is quoted in saying "I believe that God acts more in generalities, judging us on whether or
not we were good people, while taking the laundry list of sins and
tossing it aside. At least that's my hope."
I'm sorry but this is one point with which I really disagree; it is a spreading theology that God deals in generalities- but this theology does not come from the Bible but rather from man. I know that it is the authors "hope" that God will indeed take our sins and simply toss them aside- but like you said earlier there does have to be a change that becomes evident within the Christian. That change is directly from Christ but none-the-less it does happen.
Here is my general point in all of this: the idea that we can find morality, or anything resembling the full Truth of God in human inspired works is incorrect- not only is it incorrect but it also leads to a weakened and apathetic body of Christian believers.
I would hope that you agree God requires our life from us when we "join his team"?
@deepestrecesses - Well seeing as I didn't write this entry I'm not sure why you're using his quotes like they're part of my argument, but...
I think we can find morality and the Truth of God in human works because we're made in God's image, even non-Christians. He's the one who gave us imaginations and creativity and abstract thought etc. Full Truth? No. "anything resembling full Truth"? Yes.
I think that especially for people raised in the church, it is easy to become apathetic with our faith and the Bible becomes rote and you quit paying attention. Hearing it told a different way can help you stop being apathetic: sometimes you have be taken off guard by something you read or hear in order to really listen. It's at that point that you go "Oh my goodness, wait! That's in the Bible!" and suddenly you get it.
Of course this is accounting for the vast differences in personalities and learning styles. I have always been a story girl. Give me power point and charts about IV infiltration and I'm going to fall right to sleep. On the other hand, tell me a story about when you had a patient who's IV infiltrated and I'm hanging on every word. From one story I learn the devastation of IV infiltrations, how to prevent them, what the signs and symptoms are, and why it's important to learn about them. Now, the power point would have given me that information too, only I wasn't paying attention.
I have to have stories, it's the way my brain works. Perhaps you are more analytical or scholarly, and that's great. But I don't think you should write off how other people learn. Jesus told stories too, after all, and He's writing one massively ginormous story with all of our lives.
To sum up: I don't think anything outside of God creates Truth, but anything can display it. Even talking donkeys.
And about the other thing: in making Christ your Lord, you are by definition giving Him your life. ...otherwise He isn't your Lord.
That is very true- by making him your Lord you are giving him your life. :D
Seems like the appropriate points that needed to be made have been made :D. I appreciate the discussion (even though we veered slightly off the primary post lol).
-Lord Keep you
@LoBornlite@xanga - So it was ok for "Christians" to go marauding through eastern Europe and the Middle East, raping, pillaging, burning villages because the inhabitants weren't Catholic? Sure, the Holy Land had been Christian, but it was Jewish first. I don't remember the Jews going on a Crusade to reclaim it from Christianity. I'm fairly sure the Pope and the "Christian" kings of Europe started the Crusades for political and economic reasons. One crusade even pillaged Constantinople and then went home, no Muslims, and they killed many fellow Christians simply because they wre Orthodox. The Muslims get a "pass" as you put it because they were indiscriminately slaughtered in God's name.
Awesome post! I love books and movies, tv shows that hold up a mirror to our society and our beliefs. That's why I too love Dune for how deep it is, how it makes you think about religion, politics, etc. The same goes for BSG, that's why I've loved it from the start. It is a mirror of us, told through a very entertaining sci-fi story. Stories are how we as humans pass important ideas, beliefs, thoughts, information, down through the generations. They impart wisdom in a manner we are more apt to remember. Don't knock it people, how do you think the books of the Bible were passed down before being written?
@anewbys@xanga - I don't remember the Jews going on a Crusade to reclaim it from Christianity. I'm fairly sure the Pope and the "Christian" kings of Europe started the Crusades for political and economic reasons. One crusade even pillaged Constantinople and then went
The Jews had been wiped out of the Palestine by the Romans around 70AD. The Jews returned to Palestine in 1948.
The Crusades were started as wars of liberation. Islam has been a mortal threat to the West since around 700AD. It took the Spanish 770 years to drive the Muslims out of their land. Charle Martel smashed the Muslim hords at Tours in 732AD. This saved Christian Europe.
The "for politics and economics" reasoning for nearly everything that happens is discredited leftist propaganda.
@anewbys@xanga - Stories are how we as humans pass important ideas, beliefs, thoughts, information, down through the generations.
This is how ignorant, pre-literate heathens operated. Literate, educated people build their civilizations by accumulating actual, factual material and then applying it. Beliefs and thoughts must continually be sifted for their truth value. The modern thinking taught in our universities today does not develop the intellect to do this type of operation.
There is very little truth value in pop-culture although it is very entertaining. The "mirror" you refer to is simply the view of the author. That you enjoy the author's story has no relation to truth. The actual pursuit of truth goes much deeper and is not a matter of personal taste.
@LoBornlite@xanga - Islam is not a mortal threat to Christianity, well at least it wasn't then, no more so than the Vikings and un-Christianized tribes living in Europe and moving there. I think even the Church has apologized for the levels of violence committed in the name of God, for the excesses of the Inquisition, etc. It is ok to admit that people were motivated not by religion but by personal gain during the Crusades. People are not perfect, is not that a core belief of Christianity? I really don't believe God wants his children to slaughter one another in the name of, well, whatever they say. Just as He would not condone 9/11 neither will he condone the Crusades. Islam, as a religious belief system, is only a threat if you let it be one. This doesn't mean that people within Islam don't pose a threat through their radical actions and un-loving beliefs, but such people are present in every religion. God teaches us to love our neighbors, to love our enemies more, and that is what we should do. Part of that is admitting past mistakes, not necessarily judging those who committed them, but recognizing that they were mistakes, however nobly inspired. All religions are guilty of something in their past or present, they are human institutions.
As far as storytelling goes it is still something inherent in humanity, our enjoyment of them speaks as much. You're right about storytelling being an older method but it is no less developed than writing. Writing just made it easier to remember, and remember more. Many cultures still rely on stories to convey important meaning, rules for living, etc. Look at some of the classics of Western civilization, the works of Homer for example. They were passed down for several centuries before being written, same goes for Beowulf, the Old Testament, and many more. Even the New Testament "stories" the Gospels, were passed down orally for a few decades before being written, once it was realized Jesus was not coming back soon. Please do not dismiss storytelling and oral tradition as primitive and not worthwhile, it is how we began sharing culture from generation to generation until relatively recently, 5,000 years ago or so. We do still tell stories though, what do you think fairy tales are? They are really more than just entertainment, they are folk tales, which were very important culturally until a couple centuries ago at most. What exactly is "truth value?" Is not truth relative, like most other things? Yes, there are certain truths that apply to us all, but I am not convinced everything is as clear cut as you seem to intimating.
@anewbys@xanga - Is not truth relative, like most other things?
Simple reasoning leads to the conclusion that truth cannot be relative. We live in reality. Reality has rules. The rules are the truth.
If truth were relative, the entire universe would be incoherent since there would be no fixed rules. We know that this is not the case. The universe we live in is ordered and coherent. This is because truth exists.
Since human beings are part of the ordered, coherent universe in which they live, they too, must be ordered and coherent. The order and coherence that governs the universe also governs humanity. Consequently truth exists for human beings also.
@anewbys@xanga - Islam is not a mortal threat to Christianity, well at least it wasn't then, no more so than the Vikings and un-Christianized tribes living in Europe and moving there.
Comparing Islam to the Vikings and to barbarian tribes is not only an insult to Islam but is factually incorrect. I cited Spain and France as critical points of contact between the Christian West and Islam.
The Vikings were a scourge - a deadly one. But Islam was and is worse. The Vikings, the Huns, Vandals and Goths came and went. Islam is here to stay. And it was spread by the sword during the first centuries of its existence.
The armies of Islam chipped away at the eastern Roman Empire for centuries and finally succeeded in taking Constantinople in 1453. That area became the Islamic Ottoman Empire.
Another leftist trick is to deny the facts of history and make something up to suit a particular agenda. Crushing Christianity is a major part of the leftist agenda.
@LoBornlite@xanga - How is Islam worse? Sure, they spread the faith by the sword at times, but so has Christianity. What do you call the conquest of the Americas? Spain spread Catholicism by the sword too, how is that any different? I am just saying Christianity is not some rosy, perfect, wonderful religion with a pure, snow white history. History says as much. Keep in mind too that some regions welcomed Islam, such as Egypt. Egypt was heavily persecuted while under the Byzantines because the Copts rejected the council of chalcedon. At the time they were happy for it, for the chance to be treated as relative equals. They were happy to have the Muslims come and free them from their persecution at the hands of "orthodox" christianity. Why do you feel so threatened by dealing with the sins of the church? I am not making things up here but you're probably right in that I could be more objective. I'm just trying to make the point here that Christianity, as an institution, is not innocent. No person, no religion is. That's all. I don't want to destroy Christianity, I just think it needs to recognize and remember its sins so it does not repeat them. I would ask the same of Islam too and any religion for that matter. We cannot grow as people, as adherents, if we do not.
Reality does have some rules, some truths, yes. It is true that certain physical rules govern how the universe works but these rules are sometimes bent and not so clear cut either. Physics, specifically quantum physics, is learning new things every day, making new discoveries, showing that these rules, the perceived order, is not so clear after all. That was one of the number one things I learned in physics, about relativity. It may not apply to everything, every instance of order and chaos, but I trust it makes some sense. What truths, exactly, are you getting at? I am assuming ultimately you are leading towards the truths of Christianity, which I have a hard time seeing being pointed to by how existence is structured or not. I honestly don't know how deep order and chaos goes in existence, but I find beauty in it all. I find God in it all. Please don't think I am trying to destroy anyone, I just enjoy a good debate!
@anewbys@xanga - How is Islam worse?
The Vikings, Vandals, Goths and Huns were rampagers. They came, they pillaged and then they were assimilated. The Muslims have staying power. They are like the Borg (to use a Sci-fi analogy). Resistence is futile. They assimilate what they conquer.
Regarding Spanish conquest. That the Spaniards acted like Muslims is no surprise. They had been under Muslim sword for 770 years. But again, blaming Christianity for the actions cruel conquistadors is like blaming you when I go off and rob a bank. I do it in your name and blame you. That is ridiculous.
Christians in the Americas became champions of anti-slavery and protectors of the oppressed indigenous peoples. It's exactly the opposite of the way you tell the story.
All religions were suppressed under Islam. Saying that the Copts were "happy" to see the Muslims is pure fiction.
Why do you feel so threatened by dealing with the sins of the church?
Anti-Christian propaganda and fictional accounts of history are indeed a threat. Non-truth is always a threat. I have never taken the position that the Church was without sin. But the sins to be addressed must be real, not fictional.
There is zero truth in everything you have said here. It's just the pop culture, comic book version of a very important story. As an educated Christian I am mad as hell about that and I'm not going to take it anymore (that's a quote from the movie "Network" with Faye Dunnaway).
@anewbys@xanga - Physics, specifically quantum physics, is learning new things every day, making new discoveries, showing that these rules, the perceived order, is not so clear after all.
Just because the rules of physics are not clear at present doesn't mean they will not be at some future time. In fact, all of our high technology is based on gaining an ever more clear understanding of the rules governing reality.
Denying the existence of something because it isn't clearly understood is delusional thinking. Things have their own existence and nature regardless of whether they are clearly understood.
Truth exists whether or not we understand it or believe it. That truth exists is reasonable because it is intrinsic to everything.
I seriously love the Dune series. Its commentary on politics, ecology, economy, religion, genetics, legacy and the human condition is unmatched by anything else I've ever read. Yes, it is a work of fiction, but it makes one think. Think about God, the world, etc. in new and exciting ways.
Oh, and man wrote the Bible. Lots of men, actually. God did something, people saw, people talked about it and wrote it down.
These posts have made for a very interesting read... thanks all for the comments. I found this place while I was googling what religious background F. Herbert had when I came across this. Go to know that i'm not the only one who found a heavy mythology with "Christian" tones and a touch of Taoistic Eastern religious insight.... Anyway, good read guys!