Saturday, 31 January 2009
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Authority Vs. Power
Guest post by crevis05
Throughout history, people have always tried to gain power over others. This is why we have government, and wars, and such. Max Weber defines power as the ability to coerce or to impose your will on others. This is a huge problem with the Church. Because their is such a large amount of conservative Christians in the U.S., they hunger for power, so they try to impose their will on others. This is why their was such an outrage when the California Supreme Court struck down the ban on gay marriage, and why their is such an upheaval over abortion.These are strictly power moves, to try and get people to follow Christianity whether they believe or not. The good news though, their is another way. As with all things Christendom, their is a better way.
Jesus didn't use such meaningless and petty power moves. Jesus didn't hunger for power. He was tempted to rule the entire world, but he knew power is useless in The Kingdom. Jesus lived with authority. Weber says authority is the legitimate right in the eyes of others to expect that proposals will be embraced and followed. Jesus had authority, that is why he could tell people to "Sin no more."
Here in lies the question: How do you make the jump from power to authority? It's much simpler than one would assume, and it is something Jesus tells us to do.
I'm going to share a story from a book I'm reading titled Red Letter Christians, by Tony Campolo. This entire post, actually, was inspired by this book.
In the Dominican Republic, their was a doctor named Elias Santana. He was a promising young doctor and he could have become very rich by using his gifts, instead, he lived a sacrificial life. He spent some time earning big fees from the rich. When he was finished, he would buy medical supplies, go to the slums, and give free medical help to the poor. When he was finished, he would preach the gospel.
One day, Juan Perez was in attendance. Juan is an atheist leader of the Young Communist Association at the Autonoma University of the Dominican Republic and a prominent member of the Socialist Party. He was asked what he thought about Elias preaching. His response was Elias earned the right to be heard.
Bingo! This is how we are supposed to live, and this is how we gain the authority needed to preach the gospel. Elias didn't do anything fancy, He didn't put on a big spectacle of the gospel. He lived a life of sacrifice, just as Jesus did. Sacrificial living is the answer. Through sacrifice, authority is established.
Who would you listen to, given the chance? Someone who goes out of their way for you, and has your best interest in heart, or someone who only wants you to follow them for their own pride.
So, in order to preach the Gospel to all the nations, like Jesus commanded in the great commission, we must first be a servant to all the nations. Actions speak louder than words. If we as Christians, were to sacrifice everything for the world on a daily basis, the world would be better off.
How have you sacrificed something for a non-believer, whether it be your time, money, house, or anything? Did it make a difference in that persons life? Were they changed by your sacrifice?
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Comments (35)
The Church has a difficult roll to play. It must help people, but must tell them about God, too. Christian missionaries can not simply be replaced by secular helpers who do not spread the gospel. We need more than physical help, and no one other that the Church can fill this need.
I don't know that I have sacrificed anything, but I have and will pray for a non-believer. You ask if we were to sacrifice "everything" for the world, though. Does that include our faith? What do you mean by "everything"?
On another note, I will say it before someone else does less generously. There is a difference between "their" and "there". I wouldn't say anything if it was just one occurrence, but it was three times, and the editors should have caught it.
I sacrificed my Mirage Dragon to bring out Jinzo... but it didn't help my opponent much...
On another note, I think time is the most useful thing to sacrifice. Money, and a lot of other important things - they're next on the list, too.
There is a good point behind a lot of this, but your understanding (or at least presentation) of what authority is is misguided and lacking. Perhaps the word you're looking for is credibility.
It seems that the main thing you're trying to convey is that we can't coerce people into believing; rather, we have to prove our message to them through our actions. That opens up the audience who can then decide whether or not to jump on board.
That has very little to do with authority. Authority is the right to call the shots. Government is a legitimate form (though it is full of fail, it still largely accomplishes God's purpose for it). Parents have legitimate authority. Elders in a church are the legitimate authorities (well, some are illegitimate, but that's beside the point).
"Bingo! This is how we are supposed to live, and this is how we gain the authority needed to preach the gospel.
...campolo... why am i not surprised?
preaching the gospel is not something earned meritoriously!
campolo, like many others, believes in a social gospel, not the gospel of christ. "jesus died to save sinners" -- how is that message in any way rendered null by the economic bracket in which we live?! sin is sin is sin... you don't become less sinful by being poor. the rich are sinful, the poor are sinful. that is clear in the bible. grace knows no boundaries, and abounds to the chiefest of sinners.
the message that we are regenerated by the spirit of god and justified by the blood of christ through faith in no way requires the precondition of forcefully destituting ourselves of every blessing that the father chooses to bestow on whom he will for reasons of his own.
the message that we are regenerated by the spirit of god and justified by the blood of christ through faith in no way requires the precondition of works.
@monobeam@xanga - good words.
@oordzofrur@xanga - I was under the impression Jesus wanted his followers to live simple, humble lives, devoted in service to the Father. I think believers are called to do more than just preach the Gospel and believe.
This is a huge problem with the Church. Because their is such a large amount of conservative Christians in the U.S., they hunger for power, so they try to impose their will on others.
Huh? This doesn't describe me at all, despite being a conservative Christian and a member of the church (ecclesia in Greek). The church is supposed to act as salt and light. If we don't try to preserve traditional values, then the upcoming generations will get confused and not understand the meaning of life. They will only follow their own lusts. Why should government be allowed to pervert the truth and go unchallenged?
As far as sacrifice, I live with a few unbelievers (who are also my family). I'm doing my best to stay positive and show them there's no reason to be anxious about the future. However, I haven't seen results yet. There's also the matter where I don't pray for them as consistently as I could. Maybe that's part of the problem?
@stuartandabby@xanga - I don't really see how what you said is going against what crevis_05 said in this post. The point was if you are in a place of authority, you can choose to exercize your authority by the right of your title or by power... and power is bad...
@oordzofrur@xanga - Any time I hear something against Tony Campolo, none of the arguments stand. Have you ever read any of his stuff? Maybe you should because it actually makes sense and ALL OF IT is biblical. Also, maybe one does become less sinful if he decides to give all his money to the poor and live a life of simplicity. Not less sinful in the sense that they are have gotten rid of sin itself, but gotten rid of a sin. And to be clear, the gospel of Christ is a social gospel. If you don't believe me, reread it.
Also, remember James. Faith without works is dead. If you aren't doing good works, you don't have faith. That faith makes you want to do good things. If you aren't doing good things, you may as well not be a Christian... because the idea of being a Christian is to be Christ-like... and that takes works. Now it isn't the works that gets you saved. It's Christ alone... but you still need to show that christ is in you. The only way you can do that is through works. Read James.
@anewbys@xanga - agreed
@computerguyw@xanga - I'll answer that question. It's because it's the government. Not Christianity. It's a worldly system. And if the government perverts the truth, it won't go unchallenged. There will still be Christans that are agianst the principles. And I'm convinved that any kind of government can't possibly practice all of what is "Christian" anyway. Again, the government is a seperate function.
And I also agree- We need to do a lot more praying. We tend to underestimate the power of prayer.
@jmallory@xanga - true, i haven't read an entire work of campolo's, but if his followers give an accurate representation of his viewpoints, then i don't see a reason to. i won't be persuaded by the man's garbage. for instance: your insistence that richness is in itself a sin ('gotten rid of a sin"): completely false.
however, you do say some things rightly: faith that does not produce good works is, essentially, not true faith. however, my anger with the "social gospel" movement is not that they do good works -- good works are fine and biblically necessary, by the grace of god. but when they make that the central tenet, the core of christianity -- that's completely missing the mark.
see what the person said above? you have to do good works in order to earn the right to preach! that's absolutely wrong, and that's central to what makes their version of the gospel the "social gospel"--where doing these works becomes paramount, and using words to warn people of their sin and preach the glory of christ has become secondary.
which, of course, is completely backwards.
@oordzofrur@xanga - First of all, I am not a follower of Tony Campolo. I am a follower of Christ... as is he. Secondly, I didn't say being rich is a sin. I said you could get rid of a sin by becoming poor (remember that if you don't act on your spiritual convictions, you are sinning). Anyway, a life of simplicity is good. That is the life that Christ represented- and to be Christlike, we are required to give up everything to follow him. That is biblical.
Also this "social gospel" is no different than the gospel of Christ. And if you actually read Tony Campolo's work, you will see that he doesn't make the social problems his first priority. His first priority is to Love God. His second is loving his neighbors. Then it is social justice... and you can't deny that there are over 2,000 verses in the bible telling it's readers to care for the poor. That sounds like a HUGE priority to me. Anyway, social work is Campolo's gifting by God himself. Naturally, this would be important to him. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. This is why you actually need to read his books. You have the wrong image of him... some how...
Anyway, it what you said isn't backwards... We are only called to tell people about Christ. We are not told to force them to believe in him... and why would a non-believer care about sin? They don't believe in it the way Christians do. So to warn them of their sin seems pretty asinine to me. Now once someone becomes a Christian, we need to warn them of sin. And remember this too, preaching is a gift. We aren't all required to preach. We are only required to tell people about Jesus. Likewise, caring for the poor is a gift too... and nobody makes this their #1 priority. And if they do, it isn't biblical. It is a secondary priority. Campolo totally doesn't make it his #1 priority, but he certainly cares about social justice- as should you. Remember this too: Not caring for the poor and unfortunate IS a sin.
Anyway, a lot of conservative christians hate campolo because his views are a little left... that is why people don't like him... and I'm guessing that is why you don't like him either. but he has some right winged beliefs too... and there is NOTHING wrong with that at all! And you obviously know nothing about him... so you probably shouldn't bash another believer the way you are. He is acting on his conviction and THIS IS GOOD!
Why do we separate "the chuch" from us? We, as believers in Jesus Christ, ARE the church! In essence, if "the church" is failing, we all should assume our part in that responsiblity as Daniel did when he prayed, "forgive us" for our sins, even though Daniel had not sinned! He didn't distance himself or point the finger at what others were doing wrong. He identified with the problem and became a part of the solution!
So, if we are ALL following hard after Jesus, obeying the Word of God, filled with the Spirit of God then we will represent His love, His grace and His servanthood to everyone we meet....believer and unbeliever alike. Authority is something that was won for us when Jesus was resurrected from the dead. He said, "I have given you all power and authority...." It's part of the deal with salvation. The trick is, most believers don't understand that we have been given the place of authority, which makes us ambassadors for Jesus Christ, which is why we will do ever greater miracles than He did! Now THAT's an amazing thought!
People are drawn to Jesus living through us because we walk as His reflection. That means, we walk so closely with the Father that we will know what we are to do in EACH situation we face because He knows the heart of the people we meet! The needs are as vast and different as we are! Sometimes we need to be bold. Sometimes we need to be gentle. Sometimes we need to say it like it is. Sometimes we need to earn trust. The Spirit knows and if we are yielded to Him, having developed a relationshp to hear His Voice, He will guide us in each individual life we touch.
Our power and authority is often directed at holding up our hands to the "principalaties and powers of darkness" that blind the eyes and hearts of people to the Truth of Jesus Christ and telling satan and his workers, "NO MORE!" It is not directed at people. People are NEVER our battle! NEVER!!!!!! If we can grasp that most unbelievers have been seriously wounded by life and are held captive, we would walk in the authority that we have been given to proclaim liberty to the captives and see the prisoners set free! The battle is over their souls, not them as people! When we are willing to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters by giving what the Spirit says they need and not leaning on our own understanding, the world will be drawn to that sacrifical and unconditional love and fall into His arms.
I treat nonbelievers the same way I treat believers. We're all human.
@jmallory@xanga - if you can't pick out what's wrong with this one -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uasjRvevFFo -- then you might be a heretic alongside campolo. the central theme of jesus was not his concern for the poor. it was the glory of his father (john 17). the central mission of jesus was not to set up the kingdom of god on earth. it was to proclaim that it has come and was ushered in by himself alone, coming as the true king over all.
also, seriously? 2,000 verses that talk about the poor, and so it's the most important theme of the bible? helping the POOR is what he thinks the most important theme of the entire freaking bible is? how screwed up is this guy? it's like he's never even heard of the word "covenant".
yeah, those were his own words. that he spoke. in person. in that video.
once again, i repeat: the notion that we must earn a right to forthtell the gospel through good works and helping the poor is a completely false belief.
sorry, but when you said "to warn them [heathens] of their sin seems pretty asinine to me. Now once someone becomes a Christian, we need to warn them of sin." that's pretty much a blatant denial of the command to preach to the ungodly and the godly. both need to hear the gospel! and yet you're calling it asinine. why is that?
@oordzofrur@xanga - He didn't say anything heretical at all. I didn't hear it anyway. Campolo also did not say that Jesus' central theme was his concern for the poor but to bring us the kingdom of God- as scripture says, the kingdom of God is at hand. Everything that Jesus taught was centered on the Kingdom of God- bringing the kingdom to earth. Everything he did was bringing the kingdom of God to earth. That is why we need to be Christ-like. To bring the kingdom of God to earth.
And No one said serving the needy is the most important part of the bible.... but it IS important. You can't deny that and your lack of compassion for the poor worries me.- By the way, ushering in the New Covenant was bringing the kingdom of heaven to earth... so yes... Campolo has heard of the word, "covenant."
Also, no one said anything about earning the right to preach. Campolo was talking about earning authority... which is something that is earned as opposed to power. I will quote something fromCampolo's book, "Red Letter Christians":
"...power entails the ability to coerce or to impose your will on others. Conversely, authority is having the legitimate right in the eyes of others to expect that proposals will be embraced and followed. If you are followed because others have no choice, you have power. If you are followed because others believe you have a legitimate claim to their allegiance, you have authority." And guess what... there is nothing untrue about this statement. He is absolutely right. That is why he was talking about earning authority. Surely, you wouldn't want a baby Christian teaching the bible. Why? They don't know enough. They don't have authority. So there is nothing wrong when he said that about earning the authority to preach. It's common sense. Again, maybe if you read his book, you would understand instead of jumping to false assumptions of something you know nothing about. Read his work. He has a lot of good to say!
You are right when you say the nonbelievers and the believers need to know about the gospel... and what I said is not a denial of preaching to the godly and ungodly. There is a difference in telling people about Jesus and telling them they are sinners! That is no way to get people to become Christians at all! Why? They don't understand sin like we do... so they don't care about it. Make sense? It would be like telling a nonbeliever that they have to practice communion. You can tell them to, but what does that mean to them? Nothing... to them it is just bread and wine. Telling a nonbelieve about sin does nothing unless they are really interested. To them, itis just another word. And how do we get them interested on the topic of sin? Tell them about Jesus. Say what he did. That is what Christians are called to do, my friend.
I would also like to direct you to the comment a couple comments above yours by underhisbanner.
Again, Tony Campolo is NOT a heretic. Maybe you shoul just read his books and not take him out of context. To deny social justice for those in poverty would make a person a heretic.. not telling people about it... otherwise, Jesus would have been a heretic... 100x over.
@jmallory@xanga - Me (or Elias Santana, or anyone) sharing the gospel with a non-Christian requires no authority OR power (as in coercion, anyway).
If I have authority over someone, they do what I say or they suffer the consequences. That's what authority is about. Why we would need that to preach the gospel, I do not know.
@stuartandabby@xanga - Exactly.... coercion is the key word there.... which is the difference between power and authority.-This is what crevis05 was saying. Here is the quote from Campolo's book:
"...power entails the ability to coerce or to impose your will on others. Conversely, authority is having the legitimate right in the eyes of others to expect that proposals will be embraced and followed. If you are followed because others have no choice, you have power. If you are followed because others believe you have a legitimate claim to their allegiance, you have authority."
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Jesus said that ALL power and ALL authority were given to Him by His Father.....and yet He was the greatest servant of all! He was focused on people; their redemption, their understanding of Who He was so that they could be free. He demonstrated great compassion towards their suffering time and time again. He stood against injustice yet He never organized a movement, He did not rise up to overtake a governmental system and never used His power to coerce anyone. He won the world by laying down His life.
The power and authority we have been given is to fight FOR one another, not against each other! That doesn't mean that we don't take stands against sin but it does mean that we always keep in mind WHO our enemy is! It isn't the people, it is the prince of this world. We can stand against darkness while holding out our hand to the lost, in whatever way the Spirit leads us to serve them.
Also, I agree with the many comments about prayer! Prayer is where the REAL battles are fought and won before we ever see the reality of it in the physical! THAT's where our authority is crucial! Thanks everyone for the great posts!
@jmallory@xanga - Then I would take issue with Campolo's definition of authority. Using Campolo's definitions:
-Jesus cast out demons, not by authority but by power.
-When every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus is Lord, it won't be because Jesus has absolute authority, but because he has power.
-When people obey the government, it isn't because they fear being punished but because the citizens believe that the government has a legitimate claim to their allegiance.
Campolo is creating a false dichotomy between the two (each of the examples involve both authority and power imo; authority without power is impotent). It doesn't mean his point is valid (which is what I was concurring with in the OP), but he is misusing the word authority. Jesus has authority AND power. People who don't recognize the former will experience the negative side of the latter.
And for the love of Pete, can we delete that post with all those links in it?
@stuartandabby@xanga - Campolo got his definitions and differentiations of power and authority from a well known sociologist named Max Weber. But all those things you mentioned, Jesus did on authority- not power... because God is a force to be reckoned with.
-Demons fear God and know they have no authority over him- so they tremble at his name
-When Christ comes again, he won't force people on their knees. People will see him in all his glory and want to worship him- that is authority.
- As far as government goes, again, you are using authority according to Campolo's and Weber's definition.
Now God does have power. But God in the flesh practiced authority. He could have used power... and Satan tempted him with that (Matt. 4:8-9). Evidence of him using his authority can be seen when you became a Christian. God didn't force you into it. You recognized something you wanted to be like. Something you know deserves your attention and allegiance.
It would be good to read Campolo's book, "The Power Delusion". Also his book "Red Letter Christians" is good too. I'm sure he can clarify it better than I can.
Um, actually, God has both power and authority. And in a way, power is not that different from authority. In fact, authority comes from power. Without power, there is no authority.
@jmallory@xanga - This is from your quote of Campolo earlier: "If you are followed because others have
no choice, you have power. If you are followed because others believe
you have a legitimate claim to their allegiance, you have authority."
And you're saying that Jesus cast out demons via his authority, not power? Jesus gave the demons a choice?
I'll stick with conventional definitions of authority and power. Redefining the words and saying Jesus used authority instead of authority and power provides no new insight and just repackages the obvious (Jesus didn't twist people's arms to make them believe; such actions would have been counterproductive).
How about leaving people the Hell alone? =D
There's a thought. =)
@jmallory@xanga - "They don't understand sin like we do... so they don't care about it."
I think it would be wiser for you to say that non believers do not SEE certain acts the way you do, and that they can have the same values and morals and care just as much as you do without being Christian. Despite how exhausting it may be, at least make an attempt at being politically correct. =)
Because their is such a large amount of conservative Christians in the U.S., they hunger for power, so they try to impose their will on others. This is why their was such an outrage when the California Supreme Court struck down the ban on gay marriage, and why their is such an upheaval over abortion.
According to your argument here, it was inappropriate for Christians to be involved in abolition, the civil rights movement, the development of child labor laws, or any other reform.