Guest post by Sprnatural_luver 
When I went over to my friends house to hang out, I immediately noticed how conservative her mother was, and how much stock she had in evangelical memorabilia. I mean there's nothing wrong with being a Christian and evangelical, but why am I always thought of as 'the sinner.'?
Her mother first off asked me what church I went to, and what I was interested in. I answered her politely and said, "First Presbyterian Church." I was kinda worried about how important my religion was; it's my own business. I don't talk about that stuff with most people unless it really bugs me.
So her mother began with asking me how the youth group was and inviting me to her church and all sorts of stuff. Then as we, my friend, her mom and I were working on a little project and had the news in the background. Nancy Grace brought up the subject of gay marriage. Her mom turned up the volume and brought her attention to the Strange Nancy Grace and then she said, "Those gays are just sinners and they are going straight to hell."
"Wow, you're so sure of yourself." I said.
"Excuse me?" she asked.
"Well, you're so ready to condemn those people you can't see that you're a sinner too," I replied.
We then got into a biblical debate, and she began to scream at me after I won the debate. Since then, I haven't been invited over to that friend's house, and my friend won't talk to me. This has happened to me several times in the past, beginning with me meeting them in Bible club and ending up with their parents either loving me or hating me. There have been several debates like this one on various topics: gay marriage, abortion, evolution, sex, everything.
I live my life by forgiveness and repentance, but when I begin to explain myself to these people, why do I get the stones thrown at me? I hate that we still live this philosophy of "an eye for an eye." If we keep doing that, we'll all end up blind. Besides, Jesus still loves everyone, and he wouldn't use himself as an excuse to be narrow-minded and bigoted.
Have you ever felt condemned by a friend for your religious views?
Comments (22)
I have some family that have done the same kind of thing. I have an Aunt (that I don't talk to) that has labeled me "the sinner" too because I got divorced and because I lived with my now ex-husband before we got married.
It's hard because as a Christian....we see ourselves trying to live a righteous life and there are some obvious things that the bible comes right out and says is a sin. Murder, lying, homosexuality, idolatry...etc. But I don't know a single person who doesn't lie...Christian or not. Lying isn't any better of a sin that being gay. Sin is sin.
I think the problem is that if you lie and you ask for forgiveness, it's like you are clean again but if you continue to lie you are still living a life of sin. Same with homosexuality -- continuing in it is still sin. We know that sinners will go to Hell. But there isn't really any need to be dogmatic and rude about it, you know?
People, especially Christians, don't want to hear that they are sinning. But we are humans and we all sin. The difference is when we accept it and ask for forgiveness and move on. But a lot of people are too proud to do that, which is what I would guess happened with your friend's mom.
Sorry if none of this makes sense...:)
I don't like it when anyone starts right in looking for reasons to condemn another person. we can hold onto what we believe, but we don't have to make another person feel like they are under a microscope being judged in the process.
we all sin; yes, this is very true.
Maybe part of it is your approach? Arguing with people over deeply-held beliefs is not usually the best way to make and keep friends. I'm not saying there's no time or place for debate, but sometimes it can be helpful to let someone's opinion go in order to maintain harmony. There are very few people (if any) in this world, whether Christians or non-Christians, with whom I agree on every issue. I am a very opinionated person. However, I also realize that I don't have to prove my point every time. It's ok if people disagree with me. I don't have to even state my opinion in every situation. Sometimes winning a debate means losing something more important.
James 1:19 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,
I'm definitely speaking to myself when I say that it's important to remember that my opinion isn't necessarily the most important thing. Even if someone else is acting badly, it's not my job to correct them (especially, in my opinion, if they are older than I am).
I realize that in this comment, I am sharing my opinion. Feel free to disagree
Thank you for sharing your story and making me think about this.
You are always the sinner. And so is the person telling you that you're always the sinner.
The only exception being when Jesus tells you you're a sinner. He's the only one who gets to point that out without criticism.
Should we be seeking to win arguments or show others Christ through our words and deeds?
I'm finding a contradiction here in what you've written.
First you wrote that you said:
"Well, you're so ready to condemn those people you can't see that you're a sinner too," I replied.
But then you wrote:
I live my life by forgiveness and repentance, but when I begin to explain myself to these people,...
Wondering if in your attempts to warn others not to throw stones, you aren't sometimes guilty of the very same thing?
Your friend's mom seems to lack people skills and compensates with snit fits, Too bad.
And if you won the debate what did it accomplish?
Fact is all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. That's why Jesus came and why sinners need Him. Rom. 10:9-11.
Ask for her forgiveness for your part and start over and both agree to practice Eph. 4:29.
blessings
I haven't felt condemned by a friend. Just... made to feel like I was weird.
My group of friends while I was growing up was pretty diverse. Off the top of my head, I can recall Baptists, Catholics, Sikhs, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and "Christians" (born-again evangelicals who won't call themselves anything else and therefore confuse the heck out of the rest of us). Funny thing, though... the only people who ever made me feel weird about my beliefs were the evangelicals. The other groups seemed to be much more tolerant of others' beliefs, to the point where it wasn't even an issue. I don't really remember discussing religion with my friends at all.
@Pickwick12@xanga - i feel the same way. =)
@youtome - Great
I think telling an adult that when you are a guest in her house is extremely disrespectful.
Practically condemned by a vast majority of Christians I meet just for not being Christian. The stupidity never ends I'm afraid, but I'm above them =).
Yup, been there. Off the top of my head, I remember one specific instance when someone started lecturing me about tattoos. I was wearing a t-shirt so the tattoo she was specifically talking about is the one on my left forearm. So she goes ahead and starts lecturing me about how my body's a temple until I pointed out that my tattoo says "FIREPROOF", based on Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. Not to mention, it was in the shape of a cross.
I always thought that we Christians had better things to do than judge other folks but every now and then, I meet someone who tries to prove me wrong. I'm still holding out hope though, and keeping up the faith.
Even if you disagree with what they've said, it's not always a wise choice to start into an argument and try to "win" anything.
Your best bet is to not be snotty and or act as if you're better than them for it. Especially since you're younger, older adults are going to think you're naive and disrespectful. That is just the way...and even though you think that what you said won the argument, the words you used seemed somewhat accusatory and mean. You could've just said, "God will judge." and left it at that. Or just changed the subject.
I'm not trying to be rude in telling you this. I know from experience that arguing with friends/family/strangers will not solve anything. It only gets everyone angry and not talking to each other.
There are ways to respectfully disagree and then change the subject, rather than going into a full debate and seeming arrogant and "know-it-all". Even though she may have been doing that, as well, it was not good to follow suit.
You viewed her as wrong and judgemental, and she viewed you the very same way. It got no where. It's not up to you to correct her or change her mind...Mostly for the fact that it will never work if you're using those techniques.
So count it as a lesson learned as I did at one time. I got into a debate with my friend's grandmother over whether people were born homosexual or not. (surprisingly, it was she that believed homosexuals were born into it, while I was opposing it). I was visiting her house, eating the meal she cooked, and trying to argue her away from what she believed. Of course she was probably offended and felt disrespected. She wasn't too friendly to me after that, so I stopped going over there.
You pick and choose your arguments.
The way I see it is, yes we are all sinners. The point is what do we do about our sin? Do we come to God and ask forgiveness for it and fight against it and turn away from it (repentance)? Or do we actively pursue it and try to justify it, and refuse to acknowledge our sin? <----- Even some people on the "right side" of the issue will fall into that catagory, because they have other sins that they knowingly refuse to repent of.
Still, I don't like condemning anyone in wide sweeping generalizations. I realize that most homosexuals fall into the second catagory, but to exactly who and which amongst them do, is not my business. If something is wrong I just give my opinion on it, and there are plenty of things on earth that are wrong and things that we must repent of. If we don't.... and only God truly knows who those are... if we don't then yes those people will face the punishment of God unless they turn from whatever sin it is that has a hold on them. That, is a message for all of us... not just homosexuals, thieves, liars, or "baddies" like hitler, etc.
I would have said, "I'm a sinner, too," and left it at that unless she asked me to clarify, in which case I would have explained that everyone is sinners and it's not my place (thereby implying I don't think it's her place, either) to judge one sin over another.
Unrelated, it makes me feel awkward when people I've barely met start asking what church I go to and assuming I'm in Youth Groups and whatnot. When I went off to college so many years ago, the first question a bunch of people at my home church asked me when I came back for breaks was "What campus ministry have you joined?" I didn't. I made excuses that I didn't have time because they conflicted with my class schedule (which was true the first semester), but I really didn't want to join. I didn't like the campus church.
@SwordAndSacrifice@xanga - Very good point
yes. there was a time where i was with a group of christian ppl after we had just gone ice skating, and this one guy was extremely homophobic and i got angry at him and i started to lecture him about it. you know, just because a person is gay doesn't mean that you should immediately stop talking to them cuz they are living in their sin. should we stop talking to ppl we know that are divorced because they are living in sin or friends that we have that are having premarital sex? should we not vote for any polititians because all or most politicians lie? i just think that we need to be accepting of people because it isn't my job to convince a person of his or her sin. it is the job of the Holy Spirit. yes, i can preach to them or show them the love of God through my living style and how i treat them. this is how i view it. i will continue to always stress the importance of God in my life. i am sure (or i try) to mention that jesus saves or that God is good or something like that to all of my friends. if God can accept ppl with all of their defects and idiosincracies, and God only knows that i am no where NEAR being perfect, why should i not then be able to accept ppl as they are and pray that God enlighten them, be it through my actions as a person or through the things i say, however God choses to do so. however, if they do not accept, that is goign to be their issue with God because i have done my part. plus, the bible calls us to not cast judgement. there are many things i do not agree with in life but everyone is different, and everyone has a different story in life. >_> sorry for the rant.
I feel like my Christian friends view me as not as good a person as I could be if I were Christian. I'm agnostic.
@gatorgirl54@xanga - I'm also agnostic and I know people like that too. I wouldn't call them friends because of instances where they make me feel badly about myself because I am not a member of their religion.
But I'm happy as an agnostic and so I've moved on. I hope that you will find happiness within yourself too.
All the time.
I think a simple reminder that those in the world are not dead, and it doesn't matter what is done in death may be more appropriate. In Christ we are not sinners, we are people who sin, but we are not slaves to that sin. check yourself and your motives as well as your theology, I think you come off far more abrasive than needed