Saturday, 10 January 2009
-
Questions about Confirmation and Marriage in the Church
Guest post submitted by stunning_dor2
I'm not confirmed. I have been baptized and had my first communion, but haven't been confirmed. Baptism was my parents' choice and communion came with going to a Catholic school. Those were easy.
Confirmation is my choice. At one point in college I was prepared to do it. I missed the informational meeting and couldn't participate.
Now, I'm questioning my faith more. Not my faith in God, but in the church and the purpose of the sacrament. Is it for the church's benefit or my own that I am confirmed? I feel that I do not need to prove to God that I have faith in him and his son, but does everyone else need to see?
My boyfriend is also Catholic. We have joked around about getting married in Vegas. He didn't know that I wasn't confirmed until a few days ago when he brought it up and I admitted to not being confirmed. He reminded me that I can't get married in the church unless I am confirmed.
Now, we are not engaged or ready to get married (in my opinion), but I could tell that if the whole Vegas thing didn't happen and we are to get married he would want it in a church.
I jokingly asked, who says I'm going to get married in a church? He simply said, "me."
Does it matter the reason at this point so long as I have faith? So long as it is not under false pretenses?
Would appreciate your feedback. Thanks!
RecommendRelated Posts
Post a Comment
- Back to revelife's Revelife Site!
- Note: your comment will appear in revelife's local time zone: GMT -05:00 (Eastern Standard - US, Canada)
About the Author
-
- From: stunning_dor2@xanga
Stats: This Week All Time Posts: 0 0 Views: 0 0 Comments: 0 0 View all posts by stunning_dor2@xanga
Comments (49)
Confirmation is a tough sacrament to understand. I was a high school freshman when I was confirmed and I admit that I don't remember much about it, nor did I understand much of what was going on.
But you being now much older that I was at my confirmation, you have a wonderful opportunity to really learn about it, pray about it, and make the decision your own. The Catechism has a section on Confirmation, and there are many good things that can teach you more about it.
Though I didn't understand too much of what was going on, I can promise you that it is a powerful sacrament. When I look back over the last 10 years of my life, I can clearly see the work of the Holy Spirit increasing in my life ever since that day. It's a very mysterious thing, but an ancient tradition.
As far as getting married in a Church, totally go for it! Absolutely, your faith matters, and marrying in the Church is a beautiful sign of that faith and faithfulness. Both of you being Catholic means that you could, if you wish, have your wedding as part of the Mass, which is (I think!) one of the most beautiful things in the world. Imagine- you and your spouse at the altar, watching as the Lord comes before you in the Eucharist and becoming one with each other in the Body and Blood of Christ even before becoming "one flesh" as husband and wife. The Mass is the Wedding Feast of the Lamb, the eternal wedding. Wouldn't you want to celebrate your beautiful day with the Bridegroom and his Bride, the Church?
I hope so.
God bless you and please, if you would like to talk more about this, come on over!
Well, to be perfectly honest I don't know much about confirmation, as I don't really know any Catholics. =\ My background only very recently involved church, beyond being baptised as a baby into a Protestant church.
Nonetheless, I'll share my thoughts on the matter. :) Take from it what you want.
From my basic understanding, confirmation is similar to what my church would consider baptism. It's a step someone, of an age that can fully understand the commitment they are making, takes to show God and those around that they wish to follow Him. Being baptised as a child is only symbolic -- when we are that young we cannot chose for ourselves our faith. The Bible speaks of willingly being baptised to wash away sins, accept the Holy Spirit, and to die and be reborn in Christ.
Now, I understand I'm talking about baptism here, rather than confirmation -- but I do think they are linked in what they are to represent. I have yet to be baptised beyond the one as a baby, but I plan to as soon as I can. Not to much for recognition of others, but because I want to because God says we should. I want to do everything I can to please Him, everything I can to experience Him and His Holy Spirit. :) I know He knows I believe in Him already, but that sort of makes the step of faith in going through the act 10 times better, because I still do it.
Kinda like marriage. In todays world couples are not required to get married to be accepted anymore. You could live happily together and have kids without taking that step. Many people do. Yet many who don't believe in marriage as being a needed spiritual step still go through with it. Why? Because they see it as an extra step of love. A way of showing to themselves, their mate, and the rest of the world, that they truely love this person and want to spend the rest of their lives with them.
Think of confirmation/baptism in the same way. Like you're marrying God, in a sense. It's a vow to Him, it's a way of giving yourself to Him. :)
As for reasoning, unless your heart is in it towards God, I don't think it is the best choice. It's kinda like saying to Him "Yeah, you know I love you and all that, but I'm only doing this so I can get married to this other guy -- not just for you". I aplogize if that came out a bit harsh, but it was the best way I could think of saying it.
Think and pray about it. Make sure you want to do it for the right reasons, and that you are ready. Study the Bible some, and make sure the vows you will be making in confirming yourself are true in your eyes. I'm doing the same in my case of baptism. :)
If your boyfriend loves ya, He'll certainly understand if you feel you aren't ready.
Confirmation is definitely for your benefit. Now, it also benefits the Church when the faithful are given the gifts of the Holy Ghost, but it also is for your own sanctification. Confirmation is not one of the "essential" Sacraments like Baptism and the Eucharist. But it is an integral part of the Christian walk and I don't see how I would be able to get along without it.
If you are having doubts, by all means, read, pray, and seek counsel from those whom you trust. I understand that you wouldn't want to go through the motions without faith. God gave us the Sacraments to lead us to salvation. They are conduits of grace, directly from Heaven to us. If we believe in our Lord's promises, we will avail ourselves of these graces as much and as often as we can. They are not there to burden us, but to help us. Confirmation is not to prove to everybody that you have faith in God. It is there to strengthen the faith that you already have, and give you the gifts that you will need to be a strong Christian. And once you do get married, these gifts will prove invaluable.
My prayers are with you. May God bless you as you search for Him!
confirmation is a cult-like practice with no actual filling of the Holy Spirit, but just a psychological belief by the person that they have received it just because a bishop touched them and said the magic words. Idk where the Catholic church thought up some of the things they do. Did they even read the real Bible when they made up all their practices?
@modnarm@xanga - It astounds me that people with the Internet at their fingertips can't do some basic research about a particular religious practice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_(Christian_sacrament)
#Scriptural_foundation
I'm a little confused as to why you couldn't get married without being Confirmed, esp when the guy you would be marrying is Catholic. If an interfaith Christian couple can get married withing the Church, there's nothing I can think of that would disqualify you.
As far as Confirmation, when I was studying for the sacrament, it was explained to me that it is the final sacrament of initiation. Your parents spoke for you and were the reason you were within the faith. Confirmation was your step into Catholic adulthood. You were baptized by the Holy Spirit and became accountable for your own faith. It's a you thing in that it's about your faith and your standing in it. It's a church thing in that we all together make the body of the church as members.
It's deffy something to think and pray about.
@modnarm@xanga - Maybe you should read the book of Acts sometime. It might help you understand where we get the teachings about Confirmation.
"For he was not as yet come upon any of them; but they were only baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Ghost." - Acts VIII:xvi
Silly Apostles - why did they think that they could just lay their hands on them and say some words and think that the Holy Ghost would be given them? Maybe you should have been there to tell them the truth.
@mentally_ill_hil@xanga - "I'm a little confused as to why you couldn't get married without being Confirmed"
Canon laws regarding Matrimony are different for Catholics and non-Catholics. Catholics are held to a higher standard before the Sacrament can be conferred licitly. For instance, in a mixed marriage done with the approval of the local ordinary, only the Catholic must be in a state of grace for the marriage.
@modnarm@xanga -
Did they even read the real Bible when they made up all their practices?For all the translation differences and reasons for it in Bible history, the denominations all have Acts and all have the story of Pentecost. If that part of ours isn't real, then yours isn't either. Food for thought.
@MysteriumFidei@xanga -
Ah! Thank you for that. Most of my family (including my parents) entered into interfaith marriages, so I'm pretty versed in that whole matter.
wow i've been misunderstood. I believe in Acts and the Bible. I don't believe in the Catechism... basically cuz its not Gods word.. its not the BIBLE. So i DO believe in the Bible where it talks about the laying on of hands and stuff. I don't believe that in a ceremonial type matter, people walk up to a bishop, whos just a man just like the rest of us except with a catechismal resume, he touches each one, the person says their line.. and bam, with no evidence whatsoever the person has now been filled with the Holy Spirit. Seems a little bit dry and ritualistic to me. I used to be Catholic and did the whole Confirmation thing and nothin happened aside from getting money from family and wearing a gown and stuff. Nothing that Acts talks about. Nothing spiritual at least.
I read Acts. and yes i'm Pentecostal and believe in the real baptism in the Holy Spirit. I'm not trying to change any1s beliefs here. You're all entitled to what you believe. I came across wrong in my previous post and didn't mean to be attacking and sound ignorant. I don't want to start a debate, i'm just stating what I believe, stating my 'opinion' if u will. I just view the actual events of Pentecost differently than Confirmation.
@modnarm@xanga - " I don't believe that in a ceremonial type
matter, people walk up to a bishop, whos just a man just like the rest
of us except with a catechismal resume"
He's not just a man like everybody else - he's a consecrated bishop, which gives him ecclesiastical authority.
"he touches each one, the person says their
line.. and bam, with no evidence whatsoever the person has now been
filled with the Holy Spirit."
The Sacrament is valid whether or not one takes advantage of the graces made available in it. A person is baptised when the water touches their head and the words are said, "I baptise thee in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost." And this Sacrament forgives us of our sins according to the Bible. The person may choose to continue in a life of sin, but that doesn't take away from the graces conferred in the Sacrament.
We can talk about the Church all day long, and I'm not interested in a debate here either about the Bible and authority and whatnot, but it is inaccurate to call the Catholic Sacraments the rituals of cultists. Christians have been practising this Sacrament for two thousand years. Maybe everybody was wrong until now, but it is inaccurate to say that it is a cult-like practise.
The Sacrament of Confirmation is like having a personal Pentacost. That makes Confirmation an awesome sacrament in its own rite.
Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote in his Summa Theologica,
"To save his soul man needs sacraments... for sin has subjected him to material things and he is unable to apply his mind directly to what is spiritual.
Sacraments therefore are means of instructing man in things spiritual, teaching and preserving him in essential truths and seemly practice."
except Christians engage with the Holy Spirit rather than practicing a sacrament. And as far as what the NT teaches.. anyone thats been saved by grace and is following Christ can do anything the disciples did.. you don't need to be some 'consecrated bishop'. What makes him greater than anyone else? is he holier? is he more special? does he get special treatment from God?
Hes a sinner just like me and u saved through the Christ's blood.. not through anything he's done. Pastors, Priests, Bishops.. and yes the beloved Pope.. are all Sinners Saved by Grace. Were all doomed to die without God's Intervention. God doesn't hold one disciple in higher esteem than another.. believes and followers of the Word being considered disciples of the Word.
I don't think Paul had a set list of requirements he had to meet when the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost. If someone is going to throw catechism stuff at me its regard just like any other religious book. God gave us the Bible... not catholicism.
@modnarm@xanga - The Sacrament of Holy Orders is totally scriptural.
We read of the deacons, how the Apostles "praying, imposed hands upon them" (Acts 6:6). In 2 Timothy 1:6 St. Paul reminds Timothy that he was made a bishop by the imposition of St. Paul's hands (cf. 1 Timothy 4:4), and Timothy is exhorted to appoint presbyters by the same rite (1 Timothy 5:22; cf. Acts 13:3; 14:22).
You can't "engage with the Holy Spirit" just by proclaiming it so. If that were the case, Jesus and all of salvation history would have been unnecessary.
Salvation takes place by the action of God. By his mercy we are allowed to participate. The Sacraments are a vital part of that participation.
@modnarm@xanga - I'm going to use a simple analogy.
Let's say that I get promoted to a position of authority at my job. People start muttering and asking why I got promoted instead of them. After all, what makes me so great that I get to be in authority? Yeah, maybe I have more experience and technical aptitude and understanding of company policy than they do, but really, we're all just human beings, right?
Ultimately, people have authority in the Church for much the same reasons that they would at their job. People know them to be experienced, have good judgment, and an understanding of how things need to be done. It doesn't mean they're perfect, just that they are qualified and willing to serve in a special way.
A Bishop has to wear a funny hat and take on more responsibility. Let's not be too hard on the guys. They've already been condemned to wearing a mitre and putting up with the shenanigans of thousands of parishioners. :)
See, I didn't even have to quote the one book that you seem to have a particular aversion towards.
Okay, call me ignorant, but I've never been "confirmed" I've been saved and baptized but not "confirmed," nor have I ever heard of it, lol, but it's all good...this system works for me, lol, :)
By the way, what is one being "confirmed" for? (Thinking I probably should not have asked) lol, :)
obviously someone that isn't a believer and isn't cleansed through Christ.. can't connect with the Holy Spirit. I'm saying that a special christian isn't needed to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. A believer can lay hands on another believer and he can be filled with the holy spirit.. anywhere and at any time the believer asks of it, by faith, by grace, according to Gods will.
as far as qualifications go.. theres not many qualifications to being saved through grace. Recognize Christ as Gods son. Recognize that you're sinful by nature. Ask for forgiveness with intentions of repenting, asking Jesus to be your Lord. and poof. thats it. Follow Christ as the disciples did. and thats what every believer is attempting to do. All of that is only possible because of God sending his son for us. So after being saved and choosing to believe.. that really groups everyone else into the same category- sinners saved by grace through faith. Stuff like marrying someone or whatever.. yea.. priests and pastors, those credentialed to do that stuff are the ones that do that stuff. But stuff involving praying to God... we're all in the same group, regardless of denomination, if we're all striving to live our lives for the same Jesus.
@modnarm@xanga - You highlighted the word "needed". And I think that was because it's a critical point in the discussion.
You want to do what's needed to be a Christian, right? So do I.
But I don't seek to eschew perfectly legitimate practices just because they aren't needed. Do I need to give my friend a hug when they need comforted? No. I could just use comforting words. But let's face it, there's nothing wrong with a good hug at the right moment. Do I need to tell my parents that I love them for them to know it? Certainly not. But it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do.
It helps when people have signs and symbols of the truth of another person's love for them. And in the same way, it helps when people have signs and symbols of the truth of God's love for them. In my view, the more signs and symbols of God's love and grace we have, the better.
The rites of the Church are such signs, and I don't feel any urge to get rid of them.
@JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga - What you're being confirmed in depends a great deal on what theological view you hold to about Confirmation. You can see a variety of Christian sects' perspectives on it here.
the overall point i'm making is nothing supernatural happens at confirmation if you would honestly really try to compare a confirmation service to what actually happened in the upper room. This is where i feel like its a tradition of the catholic church that has the right idea and good intentions about confirmation.. but is missing the mark in regards to the actually infilling of the Holy Spirit. Its a supernatural thing that when it happens.. is more than just saying 'amen' (or whatever the line is that i can't recall), and continuing following the person who was in front of u, walking back to the chair or pew or whatever.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is something that is to be sought after by Christians who desire it, through grace, faithfulness a ardent heart, and prayer. That can happen in someones bedroom, or in a service.. but those are the things that were present at Pentecost and what are present when people receive the baptism to this day. If the Holy Spirit comes upon you.. you're usually not just going through the motions as in a confirmation service. You're in a state of prayer, communicating with God and such. The Holy Spirit comes upon people in different ways. At Pentecost we see external evidence of speaking in other tongues. -Again not to get into theological debates.. but thats what happened.. and i don't think millions of christians are 'faking' tongues or blaspheming or anything when they ask for the Holy Spirit and it comes in that way.
Confirmation is what it is. I just don't agree that its the baptism of the Holy Spirit to each individual, in comparison to what went down at Pentecost. Theres more to it than laying on of hands saying a sentence and continuing on your merry way.
@Nous_Apeiron@xanga - Thanks for the link. Took me 1 minute according to my Christian beliefs to realize I don't believe in that confirmation issue, :)
I"Confirmation is a rite of initiation in many Christian Churches, normally in the form of laying on of hands and/or anointing for the purpose of bestowing the Gifts of the Holy Spirit upon them."
I do not believe that you have to have hands laid on you or be annoited by anything but God to have the gifts of the Holy Spirit bestowed on you. I believe you simply have to "desire" and pray to know your spiritual gifts which are " "given by the Holy Spirit"....8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1 Corinthians 14:1
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
But thanks for taking the time to send me the link, :) Maybe that is why I never knew about this "confirmation" issue....it simply does not pertain to me, at least in my opinion, :)
@modnarm@xanga - Any devout Catholic would agree with you that Confirmation is much more than just going through some motions and saying a few words.
You're the one who's insisting that there's a separation between the ritual and grace, not me. I'm very much of the opinion that God blesses us in all things (including sacraments, praise and worship, and daily life), regardless of whether or not we have a profound emotional experience when he's doing so, and regardless of whether or not people start speaking in tongues on the occasion.
If you want a ritual to be meaningful, practice it meaningfully. You can let yourself be aware of God's grace rather than insisting that it isn't there. You can choose to rededicate yourself to God rather than waiting for God to throw a miracle your way so you can know He's there. You're the one who gets to decide if you want saying, "Amen" to be meaningful, not anyone else. You have the power to make a ritual deep and rich or empty and lacking.
@JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga - You're quite welcome. I'm glad I was able to give you some useful information. :)
Confirmation is the sacrament in which the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit are conferred upon you. The gifts are: wisdom, counsel, understanding, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. The fruits of the Spirit are: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control.