Sunday, 04 January 2009
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Regarding "The Shack" and Truth vs. Doctrine
Guest posts submitted by KTAment
When I picked up The Shack, I didn't know much about it except that everyone wanted me to read it and my grandmother did not like it. In the week that followed, I enjoyed reading the book, but some parts were easier to read than others. Overall, I'm glad I read it. However, I think I know why a lot of Christians haven't enjoyed it. For better or for worse, this is a book that offends our Christian sensibilities. It challenges us to see God in a way that our Christian culture has not allowed us to do in the past. There are plenty of opportunities to be annoyed, offended, or even appalled while reading The Shack, but what I realized was that none of these opportunities were brought on by unbiblical concepts.
Rather they were provoked by concepts that challenge what we have deemed "acceptable doctrine." Of course, I know that many people will disagree with me -simply because many Christians see the Bible and their doctrine as one in the same. However, this book reminded me that what we believe and what is Truth is not always the same thing. In fact, our Christian culture has often led us down a path that leads to a very comfortable belief system that fits neatly within the confines of our church walls.
A prime example is the fact that God is portrayed as a woman at one point in the book. Many readers can not get past this part enough to understand why the author "needed" to see God in this way. I'm not saying that God is a female. However, the Bible does say that we (all of us) are created in God's image, alluding to the Truth that God's nature encompasses both male and female traits.
This does not change the fact that the God of the Bible is referred to with the use of male pronouns and that He chose to come to earth in the form of a man. No one is disputing that. But, God, in The Shack needed to reach a man who needed to see Him in a totally different light. By choosing to appear as a woman, He was no less God, no less holy.
By the time I finished reading this book, I was thinking pretty intently on the depth of my intimacy with God. Not how well I knew about Him or how effectively I had studied Him...but how close I really was to Him - and not just to my overall belief system. And I think that was the main point of the book. What we believe is not nearly as important as what the Truth really is. And who we believe God to be isn't nearly as important as the depth of relationship we actually have with Him.
As Christians, we are often comforted by our rules and doctrine. We use them as our checklist of whether or not we're doing a good job. And we use them to determine whether others' belief systems are "right." Yes, there is Truth. But we need to be willing to consider that what we believe isn't necessarily Truth. I pray that my belief in God will ultimately be based on Truth. But I can't be so convinced of my human doctrine that I rule out pursuing a relationship based on this Truth.
What did you think of The Shack? Do you think Christian doctrine/culture gets mixed up for the Truth?
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About the Author
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- From: KTAment@xanga
- About Me: a mother of 4, wife of 1 - i live my life trying to love my family and jesus the best way possible. it's not always easy, but the lessons learned are good ones.
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Comments (92)
i got this book for my mom for christmas, and she's been telling all of her christian friends all about it and to read it - there must be SOMETHING to it.
no offense
this book stinks since it sends out the wrong message
if you really want to know about the Trinity
I suggest you watch this service
It preaches on the Trinity and explains why this book stinks
http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/doctrine/trinity-god-is
I haven't read the book yet, but it comes highly recommended. I'm on hold for it at the library-I started out at #28 and am down to #6. I'll get back with you.
Eventually.I read this book several months ago so I don't clearly remember all of it. One thing that I had trouble with was the dialogue between the individual members of the Godhead. Then I recalled that Genesis records God saying, " let us make man in our image."
This book is not intended to be a theological treatise - it is a story. I personally believe that the author took liberties with doctrinal issues that I wouldn't have touched, but overall it is a good tale of one person's struggle with God and with the issue of suffering.
I wonder if Harryh read the book. I believe in the Trinity, and while the book may stretch the facets of the Trinity, it also makes them very believable. I found the book to strengthen my belief in God and the Trinity and having a close walk with Him. Too often Christians condemn or condone something based on what other christians say, rather than looking to God and seeking his guidance. I can remember when Christians weren't supposed to dance, swim genders together, when women were not supposed to wear pants, when Disney movies were evil...... how things change!
For over a year, my religious beliefs were listed on my facebook as "probably incorrect."
I am pretty comfortable thinking that God's got it right and we're all more or less wrong.
@Harryh@xanga - I second this recommendation.
http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/doctrine/trinity-god-is
I also add to it this, http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/doctrine/trinity-god-is/the-shack , it is a clip from that sermon talking specifically about "The Shack"
@Momizzle18@xanga - Well I'm not condemn anyone
but think about this
Isn't Truth = Doctrine?
doctrine is the things that you beliefs right?
so....since Truth vs Doctrine....
Are you challenging the Truth?
The premise that God needs to change himself so that he may be seen more clearly or that doctrine may be set aside for greater "truth" doesn't pass the smell test. If doctrine is not completely true than it should be rejected. Moreover, if our understanding of doctrine is flawed, that does not invalidate the truth of doctrine.
If one accepts biblical teachings than it is crystal clear that God revealed himself in a particular, singular way. The human person must undergo change in order to understand, not God.
I loved this book. My grandma loved it, too, and started passing it
around to all of her friends. I like that the author stated that after
she finished the book "[She] was thinking pretty intently on the depth of [her] intimacy with God. Not how well [she] knew about Him
or how effectively [she] had studied Him...but how close [she] really was to
Him - and not just to [her] overall belief system. And [she thought] that was
the main point of the book" - Exactly.
from what i've heard from people who've read the book... camp one says it's allegorical to the Trinitarian relationship and explains it allegorically... which renders it good for those who don't have a clear theological grasp...
which is what the other camp says about the book... it's monergism in its best form... goddess worship in its worst...
they say this because one part of the book suggests monergism because apparently Papa (a black woman representing the Father of the Trinity... allegorically) says that she exists through the Son (who's a Middle Eastern guy)... which suggests monergism or oneism which states that Jesus is Father, Son, Spirit... no separation of the personhood of each aspect of the Trinity which is what monergism is...
goddess worship at it's worst because Papa is a woman which is goddess and not masculine which Scripturally states the Father is masculine and not feminine...
according to these camps... one holds theological arguments against the book... the other is rather flaky in its recommendation for reading it...
i mean... i don't know... I haven't read the book so... I really don't know...
I wouldn't have read the book except someone gave it to me. As @quest4god said, "This book is not intended to be a theological treatise - it is a story."
So as you read it, you must keep that in mind. I liked the book and would recommend with it with reservations since there are some doctrinally iffy things.
William Young takes quite a bit of liberty (that's an understatement, some might say) with the personification of the Trinity for sure, and I know and suspect many have/would find that offensive. But what even bothered me more than that was the teaching on universal salvation, subtle, for sure, but it was there.
But putting that aside, the book came to me at a perfect time and God used it to remind me of His sovereignty over my past, present and future and to help me continue to deal with resentment and unforgiveness, to see God's loving hand in the hurts I've experienced. I also really appreciated the author's emphasis that Christianity is a life rather than a religion of legalism.
These are all things we can glean from Word of God, of course, but God used this book to impress them upon me once again.
I'm reading it right now, only about halfway through, so I can't give a complete "review", but it certainly challenges our stereotypes of Christianity. I really like the expression of the Trinity in this way, and I think that it does fully expound on the Father, Son, Holy Spirit - Three persons in one concept, rather than tearing it down. It does not bother me that our Heavenly Father, Abba, Papa, is showing himself as a woman - He even acknowledges that he is showing himself this way for a reason. I think it's a beautiful picture of God as loving, caring, taking care of and enjoying his children, nurturing them, feeding them....many attributes of God are indeed what we humans would consider "feminine." That doesn't mean he's female, or that it's "goddess worship", for heaven's sakes. From what I gather so far, one of the main points of the book is how our human understanding of God is all wrong, and that God wants Mack to know the truth about who he really is, and how God really works, and what kind of relationship He really wants with us. I think it points out that a lot of our "doctrine" - what wise men have determined is truth about God, but which varies among denominations, may very well be flawed. Only God has the Truth.
I think this book would be less shocking to Orthodox Christians than to Protestant Christians. We've stripped books out of the Bible that they have retained and have made hell a much larger part of doctrine and focus than the space given to it in the Bible probably merits. There are allusions to the femenine aspects of God in the Bible that we ignore because we have been conditioned to do so. In fact, the very word "Spirit" (as in Holy Spirit) is a feminine word both in Greek and Hebrew, and the word "Comforter" that Jesus used to describe the Holy Spirit is the same word used for "helpmeet", as used to describe the role a wife plays in relation to her husband.
All in all, anyone who might think the book is misleading would reject it altogether. Many will miss the good of it because they have been taught our cultural hangups for so long they will reject it. But I do not believe it can do anyone any harm at all. However, the potential for healing and restoration that lies between the covers of that book is limited only by the resistance of the person reading it (or those who try to come between them and the truth God has for them.).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this book!
Robyn
It definitely made me think. While I was able to get through the God revealed as female thing, but there were still plenty of things in the book that I'm still scratching my head about. The thing I kept thinking was, wasn't the author a little nervous putting words in God's mouth to explain how life works, how God thinks, etc.? I realize it's a fictional book, but even so, I would personally be a bit nervous to write some of those things. Still, it's a good book, and beautifully written. I'm hopefully going to be sitting in on a workshop with the author soon. I figure with such a controversial book, it'd at least be worth it to hear what he has to say, "straight from the horse's mouth," so to speak.
@Harryh@xanga - Truth does not equal doctrine. Every religious system has its doctrines, its teachings about truth, but conflicting religions have conflicting doctrines. There is no conflict within truth.
Critics fail to see that ANY mention or analogy of the Trinity is heretical. The apple analogy? Heresy. The water-ice-steam analogy? Heresy. The father-brother-uncle analogy? Heresy. You simply can't talk about the Trinity without being heretical. The Shack isn't attempting to be 100% doctrinally true. That's not the point. The point is to try to create a fresh look at God. The author isn't claiming "this is dead-on biblical theology." If you're going to personify the Holy Spirit and God, it's not going to be. People need to take it for what it is, rather than address it as if it were a systematic theology.
Bravo to the OP!!! I'm not Christian, but this post makes me think about my own ideas. I don't know the Truth...yet
I agree with you in the general sense. I personally don't like doctrines and rules on spirituality. I think that it can hinder the enlightenment process. Kick A$@ post!
wow, i really want to read this book now...
honestly, the character Chris Rock plays in Dogma puts it best, this problem of doctrine: we took a GREAT idea... love one another, honor and thank God for all He has done, and try to be better people... and turned it into a belief system filled with rules, exclusions, unnecessary rites and elitism. and this is why so many people end up leaving Christianity... they're only taught the doctrine and never learn how to seek God out in an individual way. and when they realize the doctrine is flawed (and it is), they conclude that God must not exist. we're to blame for their demise.
@RuthViola@xanga - Exactly! Well said.
@Harryh@xanga - Even within Christian belief systems--the Catholic Church and Protestant denominations--doctrines clash. Doctrines clash even between Protestant denominations!
So, can both doctrines be true in those cases? I would urge you to answer as to whether your indictment of the book is based upon your reading of it, and a formulation of your own opinion, or based solely upon a sermon from Mars Hill Church. You don't have to read the book if you have not and choose not to, but to state that it "stinks" and "sends the wrong message" without opening it is rather reckless.
This book is FICTION. Anyone who reads it in hopes of better understanding God needs to check themselves. As a work of fiction, any supposed teaching or illustration provided needs to be viewed as fiction. If you want to understand God, read His Word.Â
This book is another attempt for fallen man to try to bring God down to his level. God is NOT like us. The only way to make him totally comprehensible is to alter His nature and character. If you want to know God, don't look to a work of fiction in hopes of finding a god who is more relatable.
It seems to me that it's not really about understanding God better, but trying to make ourselves more like a god by attempting to put God on the same level as man.Â
Oh I would love to read this book, I plan on buying it!
I do not believe that it takes Truth to have faith in something. I agree that what you believe and choose to follow is not necessarily Truth just because you and a lot of other people believe in it.
Of course I think a lot of Christians knowing the culture and history would disagree.
@fightthetide@xanga - The Bible is fiction as well. Written by a man. Doesn't take Truth to have Faith.
I got this book for Christmas and am looking forward to reading it. Many at my church feel it has changed their lives and their relationship with God. I think sometimes we read way too much into things rather than taking it at face value as it was meant.
@tincottage - I was interested to read your comments about the similarity the word "Spirit" & "Helpmeet". I'd love to know where I can find that information. Is there a book or a website I can look up? I was googling it and couldn't find anything on it and was also wondering because "ezer kenegdo"(helpmeet) is Hebrew and "parakletos" is Greek.