Thursday, 01 January 2009
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Curses! Foiled Again!
Guest post submitted by ChrisRusso
This DISCUSSION is rated PG-13 for probable use of strong language for exemplary purposes.
What constitutes profanity? Is it limited to the six or seven "curse words" that some segments of society still hold to be taboo? (The d-word, the h-word, the b-word, the other b-word, the s-word, the a-word and the f-bomb.) Some Christians say that even the substitution words like "crap" or "darn" are profanity because "The Lord knows what you mean," that it's intent that matters. But if that's the case, even yelling something like "Praise the Lord!" when I bang my finger in a car door would be profanity if my intent was to vent my pain and frustration.
IS it the intent to vent pain and frustration that is wrong? Or is it the word itself that is wrong? Or neither, something else?
What is it about, say, the s-word that is wrong? Why should one not say sh*t but "excrement" or "fecal matter" is okay? Why are Saxon words profanity but Latinate words okay?
What exactly does the Bible say about profanity? What constitutes a "curse"? What constitutes "corrupt communication?"
DISCUSS!
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Comments (52)
curse words are just words. its the meaning and intent behind those words that God will see. (thats my opinion)
This post is PG-13?
Anyway, the Bible says little on the subject of profanity. I'd have to go looking for the few lines that bring it up. :/
As for me, I avoid really bad words 1. to be on the safe side, and 2. because society feels that Christians shouldn't swear. If a Christian swears, it reflects poorly on Christianity. So I keep it clean for the most part.
@jaekey -
I agree
It took a while for me to figure out what the other "b-word" was. I'm still not sure if I got it right.
I think it's the intent and not the meaning. Although, I guess shouting "Sexual intercourse!" when I stub my toe wouldn't have quite as much punch as that other word...
My mom used to tell me that "crap" was a swear, and even when I started saying "frick", or even tried "shitaki mushrooms!" and various other words, she would always tell me that "the intent was there". But I used to argue that same thing---ANYTHING that you utter in that moment of pain, in an attempt to let out your pain or frustration, must be considered a swear in that logic..
last i checked, the Bible only condemns using the Lord's name in vain... pretty sure that God's name isn't any four-letter word.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - unless you count YHWH...
If it's the intent that's wrong, what is one supposed to do when say, you smash your finger in a car door?
@justagirl11 - May I suggest a different 4-letter word..."OUCH!"
Maybe the other folks are right, and the intent is what counts...I submit that while crying out in pain is appropriate for a Christian, venting anger is somewhat un-Christlike... (as I'm sliding under the table for some words that didn't-quite-come-out while I was wrestling with a picnic table today)
Christ, as always, is the standard. But grace for each other, especially in situations of duress, would be advisable.
I always figured the whole "intent" thing was what God cared about.
At some point in the world's history, seemingly ordinary words like "S---" and the f-work turned from casual words to obscenities and I have no clue why.I try not to say things with the wrong intent, but it's really hard in the moment of sudden pain. The bible does only cover using the Lord's name incorrectly... and the other b-word ends in t-a-r-d.
@ZJiff30@xanga - YHWH is just the Tetragrammaton and is short for the full name of God. it is used instead because the name if God is never supposed to be written out.
Some verses about speech/obscenities:
"Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."Ephesians 4:29
"Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice."Ephesians 4:31
"Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving."Ephesians 5:4
And i think it's all about the intent. The best think to try to do is to try to contain or "rid of" any negative emotions, or at least practice restraint to not say these words, as they do not benefit anyone or glorify God. Much easier said than done =P.
@Adrienne_Spenrath - Huh? What about these words are an affront to your god, to the point that Non-Christians are being harassed about using them?
@misuriver@xanga - Who's talking about harassing anyone?
@ChrisRusso@xanga - No one, but it is an important topic that I just wanted an answer to.
@misuriver@xanga - To be honest, I don't think I've ever even heard of anyone being harassed for cursing (in the modern day) outside of, say, a church youth group event or a religious private school. It seems a non-issue.
And considering we're having a hard time finding consensus as to why the words themselves are wrong for ourselves (Christians) to say (as opposed to the emotional outlash itself possibly being wrong), I don't see how anyone who has commented thus far was even addressing taking the issue beyond ourselves (to nonChristians).
It's not a non-issue. They have been trying to (and in some counties actually enacted) put forth laws that say swearing is illegal. A man was actually tried and convicted and had to pay a fine for it.
I know that you guys weren't talking about that, don't twist my words around. I was just wondering what you guys thought on the subject. Simple. I was being a little sarcastic, I admit. That's just my nature
i'm not a church leader and i'm not in any ministry, nor is anyone looking up to me other than my friends and family, so i don't think my swearing matters much.
i'm not bothered by my cursing (NYC traffic would drive a saint to swearing) but i don't blaspheme because i don't think that's right. in fact, i wouldn't blaspheme the name of even other people's gods because i think it's disrespectful to them....although i guess using buddha as a swear word would be helpful to some buddhists since some sects are supposed to practice severe non-attachment.
@ZJiff30@xanga - hahahaha! Nice one!
And this post bring up an important issue. It's human nature to feel emotion, both positive and negative. So, as a Christian, what do you say when you slam your finger in the car door?
I myself am trying to cut profanity out of my life (or at least my vocabulary).
Cheers,
Espere
@SeitekiChibiNeko@xanga - I wouldn't blaspheme the names of other's gods either, and it really bothers me that people who don't even believe in God will say something like "Oh my God" which, IMO, should be the start of a prayer (or like in the Jars of Clay song ;) )
When I'm at work I try very hard not to even mutter a curse because there are always children around (I work at a movie theater). But I'm very clumsy, so if I'm talking to someone while making popcorn & I burn myself I say something along the lines of, "Ouch, that was so stupid of me!" It's negative towards myself (but it IS stupid to be near a 470 degree kettle and NOT pay attention to what you're doing) but I don't think there's any "intent" there.
And what exactly is "intent?" Is it the intent on cursing, the intent on blaspheming God, or something else entirely? Because yes, my intent is on cursing, but I'm not making 'ouch' a curse. I'm saying something aloud as a cry out in pain, but instead of screaming I'm just saying a word that describes how I feel & that is appropriate to say around young children.
I think the best reason for us as Christians not to use curse words is because of using words that the world around us views as "negative" or "inflammatory" only make us seem hypocritical to them. It would be the type of thing you'd see in big headlines if Billy Graham was heard yelling "D***" because he stubbed his toe.Â
The same thing applies to using words like "queer" or "fag" (can i write that here?) instead of homosexual.Â
On the issue of "negative" emotions, Jesus showed His anger when He walked here on earth (at the temple, overturning tables), so I don't think the issue is anger, just what you do with it. God made us emotional creatures, he didn't make us happy robots.Â
I don't think cursing (outside of using God's name in vain) would be bad if the world didn't make it bad. That being said, saying those words does offend some people and it is against some people's religious or personal beliefs. Maybe someone can help me find the exact verse, but the Bible talks about how what is a sin for one person may not be a sin for another, but just because it's a sin to my friend and not to me, does not mean I should tempt my friend to participate in that activity because it IS a sin for him/her. So I avoid cursing because it is offensive to some people and could cause them to sin, even though I don't believe the act on its own is bad. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the heart behind it too, thankfully I don't have to make judgements on the heart behind actions. lol So I guess my direct answer to the question would be no I don't curse, but I don't think it could be labelled as "bad" either.Â
Someone once said during a smiliar discussion that profanity is a curse if the person you are talking to (about?) takes offense.
For me, I am from a non-christian family where profanity is an everyday thing normal thing and I try not to use it to seperate myself from that in some way. Not because I feel like I am better than them but to show them that because I follow God, I am different.
We should also consider the FTC: You could get a hefty fine if you use some of those words in public broadcast media in the U.S. So it's not just religious folks who have their knickers in a twist over this issue.
The best explanation I've heard-- which I readily admit is an extremely poor explanation-- is that these kinds of words are offensive because they are taboo, and they are taboo (of course) because they are offensive. Classic example is the word "bl**dy" in the UK: there's nothing particularly offensive about blood, but the word as an interjection is considered about as taboo as the f-bomb. (Which I believe they do allow on British TV, however.) In short, it's taboo for no other reason than it offends people, and it offends people mainly because it's so taboo. Which makes hardly any sense at all, but is the best explanation I've seen so far.
(I'm considering obscenity, not profanity-- I think it should be fairly obvious why many people would take offense when religious terms, e.g. the names of G-d and Jesus, are used as curse words. Personally, I'm vastly more offended by "J---- C-----!" than by "F--- you!" On the other hand, is "Holy Cow" really that offensive to Hindus? I never heard any complaints about Harry Caray from Chicago's Hindu community.)
ChrisRusso offers a very tantalizing possibility in contrasting Anglo-Saxon with Latinate terms-- Saxon words are characteristically short, sharp, colorful, and direct, whereas Latinate words tend to sound like obfuscations to English-speakers. Perhaps it's the sound of the words, or perhaps some reflection of ancient ethnic tensions between the coarse peasant Saxons and the more "refined" Normans. On the other hand, we'd have to ask why words like s*** and f*** are vulgar, while "muck" (which means the same as one, and sounds the same as the other, and is equally Saxon) is perfectly fine.
I give up.
Cuss words, obscenity, and profanity are defined by the culture.
How those words became the words of choice when
(a) someone gets cut off in traffic
(b) someone's team's kicker missed a game-tying field goal
(c) someone stubs their toe
I have no clue.
Although I do know I need to clean up my language.