I can not speak to Warren's Christianity (but he does seem to show the fruit!), but it seems that Obama is indeed reaching across the aisle.  I'm proud of him!  Maybe my dad (one of the only democrats in my family) was right about him.... 

The gay community will tell you out of one side of their mouth that everyone has the freedom to believe and live the way they want, but when someone disagrees with them, suddenly according to them, that person should be silenced.  Sounds like the definition of a hypocrite to me.

I guess Rick Warren doesn't feel that praying at the inauguration is above his pay grade. (think Saddleback Forum...)

Seriously, there is no surprise in this. Rick Warren is a pragmatist and will do anything to stay in the limelight.

I am NOT saying he is a bad man, just one who must stay in the public's consciousness by whatever means available to him at the moment.

I do not consider him an evangelist by any stretch of the imagination. He is NOT a Billy Graham. That would be insulting to Dr. Graham.

Rick Warren means well, but the most important thing to Rick Warren is Rick Warren. That is no stretch.

Hence, no surprise with the inauguration prayer.

rick warren.....rick warren. i have mixed feelings about rick warren. one time several years ago my church at the time went through the purpose-driven church thing--so we had the 40 days of purpose and it felt like (to me, at the time, anyway) warren was imposing his idea of purpose onto other people. like: you're purposeless? let me show you the way, i've got the answers! and it really turned me off. certain days more than others. i'd have to reread the book to remember exactly which pages bothered me. and of course his "voting guides" he used to distribute at his church laying out the "most important" political issues. i deeply disagree with that rick warren.

@Allen_Oz@xanga - You're kidding, right? That's like saying a black marching band would represent the oppression faced by African Americans. That doesn't in any sense represent African American issues.

Once again (though I don't blame Revelife, the poster I'm sure did it on accident), the post fails to address the actual issue. The problem is that Warren has compared the marriage of two consenting adults to child rape and the lowest forms of criminals. Plus, the fact that he keeps pointing to the fact that his church helps with AIDS funds conveys a misunderstanding of gay people - not only gay people catch AIDS. On a world scale, a sweeping majority of AIDS victims are heterosexual.

It's not the fact he opposes gay marriage - it's the words he's used to describe which are rather offensive.

@Allen_Oz@xanga - I explicitly stated what he said which was taken offensive. There are other pastors who are opposed to gay marriage which express this belief in a more civil way. Obama could have chosen one of them. Obviously, Obama does have the last word and, if Warren stays chosen, I do hope he does his best. I would like to believe we all could act civilly. But we shall see. Just pray and hope, I guess.

@greenbird321@xanga - Which explains the treaty of Tripoli. Got it.

What values are we founded on, exactly?

@greenbird321@xanga - Wrong.  This country was not founded because of persecution.  The persecution thing was a hundred or more years before our country was founded, and was not the reason that we broke away from England.  The reason we broke off was because we felt we were being treated like second class citizens, not being represented in parliament, etc.

Shame on Rick Warren for accepting! 

I like him even less now.

I think Obama's on the level.  Why do people forget that he is a Christian too?  

@raveninohio - Great comment. That is how I feel about Warren.

April 25, 1689 – The Great Law of Pennsylvania is passed.

“Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and the end of government … therefore government itself is a venerable ordinance of God …”

May 20, 1775 – North Carolina passes the Mecklenburg County Resolutions.

“We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of a right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no other power than that of our God and the general government of Congress.”

Summer 12, 1775 – Continental Congress issues a call to all citizens to fast and pray and confess their sin that the Lord might bless the land.

“And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and to abstain from servile labor and recreation on said day.”

Summer 2-4, 1776 – Declaration of Independence written and signed.

“We hold these truths … that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights … appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world … And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence…”

As the Declaration was being signed, Samuel Adams said: “We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let his kingdom come.”

On the same day, Benjamin Franklin suggested that the national motto be: “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.”

Historian and philosopher G.K. Chesterton said of the founding of America that it is “the only nation in the world that is founded on a creed. That creed is set forth in dogmatic and even theological lucidity in the Declaration of Independence.”

September 17, 1787 – The Constitution of the United States is finished.

At least 50 out of the 55 men who framed the Constitution of the United States were professing Christians. (M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company, Plymouth Rock Foundation., 1982).

Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.

The Constitution of each of the 50 States acknowledges and calls upon the Providence of God for the blessings of freedom.

1787 – James Madison, the “architect” of the federal Constitution and fourth president:

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future .. upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

April 30, 1789 – Washington gives his First Inaugural Address.

“My fervent supplications to that Almighty Being Who rules over the universe, Who presides in the council of nations, and Whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by Himself for these essential purposes.”

March 11, 1792 – President George Washington:

“I am sure that never was a people who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency which so often manifested in the Revolution.”

December 20, 1820 – Daniel Webster, Plymouth Massachusetts:

“Let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers brought hither their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate … and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political and literary.”

July 4, 1821 – John Quincy Adams:

“The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. From the day of the Declaration … they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct.”

1833 – Noah Webster:

“The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles … This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions and government … the moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws.”

1841 – Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America):

“In the United States of America the sovereign authority is religious … there is no other country in the world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America.”

shall I continue? (source: http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0192_America_-_A_Christia.html )

About the country being founded on religious values - that does not mean the country should continue to be actively religious. Separation of church and state has also long been an important part of the American idea of government (more in theory than it practice, though, it seems), and I personally (as well as many others) would like to separate them even further. Just because something has been done a certain way in the past does not mean it should be done the same way in the future.

About the original issue..

Being a "symbol of division" is more than disagreeing with people. For instance, if someone who had preached openly racist things (such as Jeremiah Wright.. or a racist white preacher) had been chosen, nobody would have hesitated to call them divisive and condemn the choice. To the gay community and their allies, anti-gay preaching is pretty much the same thing. Now, I understand that in Christianity (and other religions too, actually), homosexuality is considered a sin. But, first of all, even this view is hurtful to gay people, since the truth is, they cannot choose their orientation and are thus discriminated against. Second, there is still the whole separation-of-church-and-state thing that means that just because religion says something is sinful doesn't mean that it should automatically be illegal, which is why we (I'm bi, which I guess puts me in the "gay community," or the LGBT community to be more inclusive) still try to convince religious people to look beyond their personal beliefs and let us have what is important to us and doesn't really affect them - marriage. It is hurtful to see people preaching that we should be denied something so important. Third, as someone has already said, there are different ways of preaching, and some are more offensive than others; Warren has been preeeetty offensive in his rhetoric.

But basically, disagreeing on something like economic policy isn't going to get someone labeled a symbol of division. Being against gay rights, however.. truly is hurtful, and homophobia is an opinion I am hard pressed to respect (as I said, I see it as similar to racism). Still, though, even on this issue it is possible to disagree in a more respectful manner than Warren has done.

It is indeed nice to see Obama reaching out to people of different political views, and Warren has done things I respect too, so I'm not going to completely condemn the choice, but calling him a symbol of division isn't all that intolerant or far-fetched either.

@sugartomyhoney@xanga - do you have an example of the gay community doing this? really, i'd enjoy it if you could support what you're saying.