Sunday, 07 December 2008
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QOTD: Infant Baptism and Churches?
Guest post submitted by Kristenmomof3

Could you attend a church that believed in infant baptism? Why or why not? Do you like a church that is strictly structured (every little detail planned point by point and you can follow in the bulletin) or one that isn't?
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Comments (59)
I am a victim of infant baptism. Let me beg you, don't do this to your children. Religion is a deeply intimate choice and having someone brand you for the rest of your life steps on that intimacy.
I do not believe in Infant Baptism. I believe the child should wait to an accountable age (in my church its 8 yrs old) before they are allowed to be babtized.
I don't believe in infant baptism. I believe that being baptized is a very personal thing, showing that you understand the decision you have made and are ready to make an outward expression of that decision. I don't think there is a specific age for that though.
I do not personally believe in infant baptism but that would not stop me from attending the church if that were the only problem I had with it. I think baptism should be a choice of the person and the person only. For me, it's purely symbolic. For most churches that believe in infant baptism it is MUCH more than a symbol, therefore, they feel they must baptise infants or else they won't be saved if they happen to pass very young.
Anyway, it wouldn't stop me from attending necessarily.
I prefer a church that does not have everything written on the bulletin. I usually don't accept the bulletin anyway. They try to hand it to me and I say "no, thank you". I prefer to be "surprised", I guess. I don't really like fill-in-the-blank sermon notes either. *Shrugs* I do like to know what the title of the sermon is though. I usually just ask a friend or someone near me that got the bulletin.
Oh, but to add on to that. I like to get the bulletin at churches I have not been to. Like, if I'm trying it out. Just to see everything that's going on and all that.
Those are two random, unrelated questions.
I do not believe in infant baptism. I do not think it is biblical.
I don't think Jesus cares.
@they_callmefaith@xanga - Your church really sets a specific age of accountability for all children? I've never heard of a church doing that. Every church I've known that teaches age of accountability has also believed that it can vary from child to child.
Is that an official position of your church, or just where it's informally fallen, where someone said, "Eight years seems like a good age."
If it's official, how did they decide on eight as opposed to seven or nine? I'm genuinely curious.
-ND
I believe in infant baptism. If infant baptism is not valid, then I am not baptized, my entire family going back at least 400 years (probably more) has not been baptized, and well over a billion Christians world-wide have not been baptized, and billions more throughout history.
While one's faith is indeed a very intimate choice, there are choices that parents can make for their children, and I think baptism is one of the most beautiful. I used to envy my Protestant friends as well as people came to know who had converted to Catholicism in their adult years and had not yet been baptized until that time.
But I have come to realize that I wasn't "branded" or cheated out of anything; when I was one month and one day old, my parents presented me in the Temple of God and made me an offering to Him, asking Our Lord to free me from the Sin of Adam, the sin that my own parents passed on to me. They asked that I be free from that so that the Way of the Lord may be prepared in my soul and I may have a lifetime to walk it. I can't imagine even twenty-five years later the graces that were planted in me that day that have only begun to sprout, those that have long been blossoming, and those that still lie dormant in my being, waiting for that particular time when God stirs it to take root.
I love my parents for having me baptized at so early an age. Left to my own devices, especially my high school and college years, I would never have chosen baptism on my own. I am so thankful that they made that decision for me, as they made many others of which I should not get upset about.
As for the other part of the question, about complicated liturgies, I love that, too. I think, though, that the Catholic Church is greatly misunderstood in this. Though the liturgy has been very "ritualized" in that there are certain things to be done and certain ways to do them, there is actually considerable "freedom" in the way of music, what prayers are used, even what occasion to recognize (ordinary time vs. the feast of a saint, for example). What I love about the Mass, among many other things (such as the Eucharist) is that vestiges of the ancient Church still remain in our celebration and, over all, very little has changed. Almost every moment (literally every moment in most of the Eastern rites) is pregnant with meaning. The prayers we pray are ancient, some of the Eucharistic Prayers dating back to around the year 200. The entire story of salvation is told at every Mass, as we start with music, prayer and then a reading from the Old Testament, a psalm is sung or spoken antiphonally (like in the early Church), an epistle is read, then an Alleluia sung as the Gospel is brought forward. We hear the Gospel proclaimed by the priest, deacon or bishop (or the pope if you are lucky!), and afterwards we hear the homily. We hear how the Gospel applies to our life, how we can take the ancient Word of God and yet live it as though it were just spoken. We then stand and profess our faith with the Nicene Creed.
We then bring the entire community's prayers before the Lord, asking for "our daily bread," offering prayers on behalf of the community as well as the prayers in our hearts. Some parishes and small communities even encourage people to speak their prayers out loud. But always, even if I were to say, "I would like to pray for so-and-so's health. We pray to the Lord." And everyone responds, "Lord, hear our prayer." Every prayer of every person becomes the Church's prayer all over the world.
Then we all kneel as we prepare to receive the Lord in the Eucharist, praying the ancient prayers, singing the same song the angels and saints sing in heaven (the Sanctus or Holy, Holy), we offer our gifts of bread and wine, just as Melchizedek and countless others since, we proclaim the mystery of our faith that Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again, we remember and witness anew the Last Supper during which Jesus established the Eucharist, we affirm all of these mysteries of faith with the Great Amen before we pray in the manner Christ taught us, the Our Father.
We then offer a sign of peace, shaking hands and embracing one another that we may enter into communion with one another in peace and joy. Then the Eucharistic bread is broken, and we remember that Christ's own body was broken for us, his blood poured out. We beg the Lamb of God to have mercy on us, and to grant us his peace. Then the priest holds up the Body and Blood of Christ and says, "This is the Lamb of God, this is he who comes to take away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to his table," to which all the faithful assembled respond, in the manner of the faithful centurion, "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." It is the only time I can think of during which the congregation uses "I" instead of "we" or another word signifying the plural.
We all then come forward to receive Jesus Christ in his entirety.
While this happens there is often music, and people return to their places to pray and be with Our Lord as He is with them and, when all is finished, there may be time for announcements, but often those are left to the bulletin. There is a final blessing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and then we are sent forth "to love and serve the Lord." "Thanks be to God!" That is our mission (the word "Mass" means "to send."), to take Christ with us into the world.
This has been going on, this exact same sacrifice (though some of the ways have changed a little throughout the many centuries) that took place at the Last Supper, throughout all the horrible persecutions, and over 300,000 times every day (and even more on Sundays).
I absolutely love it; it is my whole life and the center of it. It is my home and where I come from, because from a very early age it was where I was born. I have realized over the years that the Church is my true home, that all those years when I was "forced" to go to Church and only after going could I return home... this is backwards. We are sent from Mass into the world; when we go to Church we go home, and after going home then we are sent to the various places where we dwell, work, or otherwise sleep and keep our stuff.
Sorry for the long comment.
i don't see anything wrong with infant baptism. it seems like the most obvious way to show that you plan to raise your child as a Christian.
and i do prefer strict services. if nothing else, i'm a wannabe Catholic for that very reason.
The Bible clearly teaches that baptism is only for the saved, those who have accepted Christ as their Savior. Therefore, infant baptism is not Biblical. Baptism is an identification with Christ. You are showing others that you made a choice to follow Him. Baptism does not make you saved, but it does show others that you have made that decision. Also, baptism is by immersion to symbolize the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord.
As far as the bulletin question, I prepare our church's bulletin each week. It has a general idea of what is going on that day, for example the times of Sunday School, services, choir practices, etc., but it does not have a detailed description of everything that will go on in the service, such as all of the songs to be sung and so on. I prefer that, but there is no right or wrong way to do it.
Could you attend a church that believed in infant baptism?
I don't know... could I? I guess it would depend on whether they would let me in the door.
Why or why
not?
I probably wouldn't attend such a church, anyway. I don't understand how magical water makes you more saved.
Do you like a church that is strictly structured (every little
detail planned point by point and you can follow in the bulletin) or
one that isn't?
I don't like church, period.
@Theophilus166@xanga - that's exactly what i was thinking.
and here are my two cents: i wouldn't baptize a child as an infant, but i wouldn't not go to a church that performs infant baptisms. my old church did infant baptisms and teenage confirmations (although we were not Catholic), so it gave people a chance to confirm their personal belief in what they had been taught since infancy.
For those of you who do not believe in Infant Baptism, I beg of you to at least know WHY we do so. Prior to researching it, I thought it unbiblical, convicted by the gospel saying, "Repent and be baptized!" When I first read this I saw that repentance is necessary prior to the sacrament, thus, an infant should not be baptised. I affirm this to be TRUE! However, one should not only read the New Testament, for Jesus upholds and fulfills the Old Testament law, so we must read what it has to say and connect the two! God made a covenant with Abraham and commanded him to circumcize his children as a sign that is a COVENANT CHILD-- one who is of the people of God. In the New Testament, we read that God has said that BAPTISM shall now be the sign of the covenant, which is why all need be baptised, just as we (God's people) were circumsized prior to Jesus' incarnation. Baptism should be to YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN if you are a follower of God. If a man becomes a Christian at an old age, he is to be baptised, and if he has children-- they are to be baptized because they too are children of God!
I do not uphold the Roman Catholic belief that you MUST be baptized to go to Heaven.
I am only upset when people talk about infant baptism as being unbiblical, because they obviously have not read the Bible thoroughly. They may find a way to disagree or come up with a reason why its not valid, but please support your belief!
Genesis 17-- "Then God said to Abraham, 'As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and yoru descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.'"
(I would suggest reading this whole chapter)
Remember, we are God's people, and we cannot stray from what he says!
Acts 2:38-39 -- "Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized....The promise is for you and your children...'"
(I would also suggest reading on, as I didn't quote it all)
Galations 3:7 -- "Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham."
Gal 3:10 -- "'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
(Again, read around this for more info)
GOOD QUESTION, BTW, as this is a highly debated question!! Thanks, and God Bless and continue to seek answers as we are to love God with our heart, soul and MIND!!!
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Catholics aren't the only ones with "strict" services. Presbyterians premeditate that which should be contained in a service, and though maybe we stick with is moreso than we should (as many Christians believe services should soley be 'let by the spirit'), I think its an excellent way of being sure we are glorifying God.
To those who believe that WE can choose what we do in a church service, aka anything we do will honor God, I just want to remind you that this is true, and you should be doing everything to honor God your gifts all the time. HOWEVER, specifically, in Church service on the Lord's Day, we are to seek that which God has said to do at this specific time. It's kind of complicated, and I haven't got it all figured out yet, but remember that WE (broken, sinful people) cannot choose what goes into a service-- only God can. Which is why people have a litergy, to be sure that all God wants in the service is there. Any thoughts?
I like how the author of the post assumes/implies that local churches/denominations that teach infant baptism are also churches that are 'strictly structured'.
@sirnickdon - The individual might be Mormon. If my memory isn't failing me completely, the 'age of accountability' in the LDS church is 8.
@Theophilus166@xanga - Glad to see that I'm not the only one who realises that the two are completely unrelated.
@captain_jaq@xanga - Your comment is so incredibly wrong, hurtful, and offensive. How dare you call billions of Christians "victims" who have been "branded".
@hubbaduh@xanga - The author is clearly trying to draw a distinction between Catholic beliefs and evangelical protestant beliefs without saying so. This is typical of Revelife. I have given up on hoping that they stop publishing comments and questions that are designed to incite the type of comments like those from "captain_jaq".
@writersblock1117@xanga - The Bible does not clearly teach that. If it did, it would not the minority position among Christians throughout history. It being the minority position, the burden is on you to establish why infant baptism is unacceptable; certainly, you are not in a position to blithely declare what the Bible clearly teaches, and leave it that.
The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus rose from the dead. We do not infer it; it is taught.
You infer that baptism is only for the saved.
There is a difference.
-NDSR
@LilChristianGirlie@xanga - "I do not uphold the Roman Catholic belief that you MUST be baptized to go to Heaven."
Well, that's not the actual teaching of the Catholic Church. The Church teaches that all the Sacraments of initiation and healing affect salvation. The Church teaches that Salvation can be had through the infinite mercy of God for babies who die before baptism, for those baptized by desire or blood, and those who truly seek God outside the Church. Unlike evangelicals who believe that Catholics are not saved due to their beliefs, the Church teaches that all Christians can be saved but the Church is, essentially, the best way to do it.
@hubbaduh@xanga - actually this isn't even half of my post. I did not assume that. Though reading it here it may sound like I did. Remember Revlife does at times alter things it uses.
thank you
@scramBledmegZntoasT@xanga - Actually I wasn't :)
I did a post on my blog that they took this from. This isn't even half of the post.
In the whole post the questions make a lot more sense then they make here.
The whole post is about our church hunt and issues to look at when looking for a church and the differences between churches and where different people draw different lines.
They chopped it to smithereens
@Kristenmomof3@xanga - Sorry that they butchered your post like they did. I've heard from a few other people how Revelife has done that in such a way where what they (Revelife) posts ends up being a completely different post than the original. It's a shame when they do that. Thanks for clarifying