Saturday, 06 December 2008
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The Honest Truth and the Angry Reaction
This past weekend, I had the opportunity to spend some time with my boyfriend's family. During our car ride to visit friends and family, we had a long talk with his sister about Christianity (we always tend to end up talking about our faith when all of us get together.) Toward the end of the conversation, he asked his sister questions leading up to the always controversial, "So do you think you'll go to heaven?"
Of course her answer was yes.
Eventually, we got around to talking about why we believe what we do about who gets into heaven and who doesn't. She got really angry at us for saying that people who don't believe in God and Jesus Christ will not be in heaven. I think that more than anything though, she was upset at God for laying down such a rule. We tried to explain it to her, but she was so angry that she refused to talk about it any further.
I thought it was strange because she was angry that God would give us such a choice, but I have a strong feeling that she would also be upset if there was no choice and God forced us to love Him. So why is it that people are angry if you tell them the honest truth about heaven and hell, yet they don't believe in either? I think that if I didn't believe in something, and if someone told me I was going to end up there, it wouldn't bother me because I don't believe in it.
However, knowing that God is real, heaven and hell are real, and that Jesus Christ is real, I understand that it is conviction of the soul that angers people. Perhaps deep down inside, they know that there is a God, but they do not want to let go of their current lifestyles just yet.Have you ever openly talked to a non-believer about your faith? How did it go?
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Comments (104)
Working on it. Sometimes I get derision. Sometimes I get "whatever." Sometimes I get honest discussion ... sometimes I'm scared to death, and don't even open the conversation.
Honestly, I have to ask. How seriously do you take your belief that those who do not believe in God and Christ are not going to heaven?
Are aborted babies not going to heaven because they haven't had a chance to believe in Christ? What about those who came before the time of Christ? Those who have never even heard the name of Christ? Those who have apparently rejected Christ but really just reject the incredibly unChrist-like behavior of a large portion of those who claim to follow Him?
@Nous_Apeiron@xanga - finally someone points out the idiocy of this "You must believe in God to get to Heaven" crap...
Poor Ghandi - the man only did more than most even bother to in their lifetime for a nation...
Belief still merits hell. All must come to faith (a specific belief in Christs atoning work on the cross for their sins) and repentance for their sins. many people believe in God and many believe in Christ but what they see and use him for is un-biblical...
I have talked to a great host of non believers in my life. Most of the time they leave me with the statement "Wow, I have never heard that before." Despite living in this so-called Christian nation most people including the Christian have never heard the gospel before.... WOW!!!
@thirst2@xanga - Yeah, Ghandi did a lot of good stuff but he was not perfect. God will only deal with perfect Holiness and only the perfect will inherit the kingdom of Heaven. That leaves every soul that ever lived except Christ unable to get to Heaven... Unless God Himself has devised a plan to take the perfect life lived by Christ and impute it to those He wishes to save and take the imperfect lives of those same people and impute it to Christ and have Him take the punishment instead.... I'd call that good news!
Wow! I know what you mean. The Bible says this, yet no one wants to believe it. Maybe it's an ego thing. Not everyone is humble and conscious of their flawed behaviors. It's like my mother...It's hard for her to admit when she's wrong or has made a mistake. It's usually someone else's fault, or there's a good "reason" for why she did it.
As the Bible says...The road to heaven is narrow, while the road to hell is wide. It's easier to not follow God, because that would mean giving up what we want. We're all taught from a very young age that it's "our decision" or choice as to how we lead our lives. While this is true, it's not without consequence. In reality, the choices are...Follow God and get to heaven, or not and go to hell. Free choice is such a poison that humanity LOVES. Freedom to lie, steal, cheat, gossip, hate, and do evil.
But in reality, these do not equal freedom or reward for us in the end. This is a freedom that will, in the end, put our souls to fire for an eternity!
It's hard for some people to grasp or understand. They think, "A perfect God would be more forgiving and understanding" God is understanding to an extent, but he's more fair and just, than anything else. He gives us ample opportunities and time to realize that his way is the best way...But like rebellious, indignant children, many of us choose to ignore it. We don't want to be accountable or responsible. Our generation loves to live in the here and now. We're taught to love the world, this country...and God told us that this world shall pass away! We're not supposed to be trying to fit into world, because this world is full of SIN, which ultimately leads to the destruction of humanity.
To those that like to "Critique" God's way and get angry, they're not at the point of humbling themselves. And there's the possibility that they may never be! Which is sad, because some people live out their entire loves hard-headed to God's presence.
The only thing we can do is talk to them and encourage them to turn away from this world and CLING onto him, Jesus Christ. People get so angry at Christians, and God predicted that would happen. They're angry and want to think that religion, Christianity is a way of control and bigotry. It "imposes" on their view of being completely tolerant and accepting of the things that God calls sin.
Sorry I went on forever! This subject has been in my mind for a great while. There's a definite intolerance for our Creator.
I regularly share my faith with others. I would recommend that you look at the 4 spiritual laws designed by Bill Bright. At the end of the day being a christian involves a decision to not just believe that God is real, but to accept or decline Him as Lord of your life. If you accept you go to heaven. If you decline you go to hell, regardless of what you have done in your life.
Usually if you relate to people well you can talk them around to hearing your opinion by keeping conversation very respectful. I have been able to talk to muslims, buddhists and jewish people openly about God and not offend them (although I haven't converted any of them yet haha I still try). It sounds like this girl got defensive because she felt attacked.
In Matt 16:16-17 it says,"Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."
Most people who are in full-time missionary work can tell you, that at the end of the day, it's not your words that will reveal the reality of Christ, heaven and hell, but God who reveals Himself through the Holy spirit. I would pray and ask that God will reveal Himself powerfully to her.
@Nous_Apeiron@xanga - Amen.
i have loved ones who, despite being good people, are apparently going to Hell because they are not Christian. i do not consider that fair or just in any sense. it must be nice to be so convinced of something that you're willing to condemn a loved one to Hell by proxy. but i definitely don't have that. my friends and family matter more to me than anything on this planet, including my faith.
"Perhaps deep down inside, they know that there is a God, but they do not want to let go of their current lifestyles just yet."
Exactly!! I think this is why it does bother non-believers when we discuss things like this. If they truly did not believe it, it wouldn't be a big deal.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - i have loved ones who, despite being good people, are apparently going to Hell because they are not Christian.
It depends on what the definition of good is. According to your definition, they are good, but according to what God says in the bible, they and no one else is truly good. The true definition of good according to the bible is someone that has not sinned. And we have all sinned which is why the bible says that "there is none that are good." And that is why Jesus willingly chose to die for our sins.
@musterion99@xanga - but that definition is subject to faith. i'm not going to hold someone accountable to an ideal they don't recognize.
It doesn't anger me when people tell ME personally that I'm not going to heaven. I have my own personal beliefs, and they do not involve any place called hell. But it does anger me a bit sometimes when people press people like that simply because I think that people are entitled to their own beliefs, and no human has the right to say who is going where, no matter what the bible says. Just my two cents though.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - but that definition is subject to faith.
Of course it is, just as your definition is subject to what you define as good.
i'm not going to hold someone accountable to an ideal they don't recognize.
I wouldn't expect you to, but the point is that if the bible is true and we all have sinned and we reject that Jesus died for our sins, then we can't enter heaven upon what we define as good.
The person I have been the most frustrated with is my daughter's father, who, when I met him, claimed to "nearly" be a believer, but who now believes that there is nothing after this life, and that this is all there is, so he doesn't see a reason to believe in anything or to behave in a response to any gift of grace or to honor or love a God, or to behave a certain way toward other people,or even to do what is right, because "this is all there is", and he believes he should just grab as much in this life as he can, because that's it. He doesn't believe anyone should judge him, and that anyone who criticizes his actions in any way is making a "value judgment", which isn't allowed, in his mind. In other words, he'd prefer to remain selfish and do things the way he wants to, regardless of how it affects someone else.
His heart has become totally hardened, and it's impossible to even talk to him about such things anymore. For awhile, I was like the woman in Proverbs that tried to just show by example and how I lived my life, but he is so blinded that he doesn't even see a smattering of the truth.
Do we give up on such people - especially when they become hateful and intolerant toward Christians?
@musterion99@xanga - then the authors of the Bible should have done a better job of portraying such valuable information in a more objective light.
i don't blame anyone for not wanting to be Christian. there are several things wrong with the religion. it took a lot more than, "the Bible says so!" to get me interested... i don't see why i (or God, for that matter) should expect us to have an easy time accepting this.
as i said before, i have friends who are not Christian. and they were my friends long before i became Christian. by accepting the sola fide doctrine, i am agreeing that they deserve to go to Hell. and i don't think they do. i love them dearly, and there is no doubt in my mind that they will get into Heaven, with or without faith.
No one apart from Christ deserves to go to heaven. No matter how "good" someone is. The only way any of us are getting into heaven is because of what Christ did for us.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - then the authors of the Bible should have done a better job of portraying such valuable information in a more objective light.
I don't know what you mean by that. The bible is very clear that everyone has sinned and that Jesus died for our sins.
i don't see why i (or God, for that matter) should expect us to have an easy time accepting this.
It's not a matter of how easy or hard it is. That is relatively different for each person. The point is that we have the freedom to either believe the gospel or reject it. I didn't believe it upon first hearing it. In fact, I mocked it. But later on I chose to believe it.
by accepting the sola fide doctrine, i am agreeing that they deserve to go to Hell. and i don't think they do.
You're contradicting yourself unless you're saying that if you accept sola fide.
i love them dearly, and there is no doubt in my mind that they will get into Heaven, with or without faith.
Again, that is your opinion which doesn't mean it's true. If the bible is true, then they will not go to heaven.
@musterion99@xanga -
how am i contradicting myself?
but, you make a good point. i guess i'd have to say, then, that i don't believe the Bible is 100% accurate (and not just because of the sola fide doctrine). someone else on Revelife also made a good point... i cannot keep trying to harmonize my morality with that of the Bible. if i have to be put on the spot about it, i guess i'm no longer Christian.
@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - how am i contradicting myself?
I'm not sure if you were which is why I italicized certain words you said in that comment which seemed to be contradictory and then I said unless you meant if you accept sola fide.
if i have to be put on the spot about it, i guess i'm no longer Christian.
As a Christian, I'm sorry to hear that. But if that's how you feel, then it's your decision.
I use to be a non-believer and I remember me and my boyfriend [about six months ago] were talking but I never really liked to because I just didn't believe and didn't really care. None the less he never really knew what I was thinking in the area.
But as we drew closer and I started going to church with my cousin more and thinking about it. I realized that it is real, and that I wanted to be part of it. I was then saved and now me and my boyfriend talk about it all the time. I explained how I use to be, and now we are just as happy as can be.
What works for one, may not works for the other. And one have to at least show that they are trying to put their feet into other people's shoes.
Also, sometimes it takes "steps" to talk about some matters, such as religion and faith.....to prepare or 'warm up exercise' the listener's mind.
I think it's understandable that she is mad.
As a non believer who has also studied the Bible, I can't honestly say that you were accurate in your assumptions that people who aren't in the Christian faith won't go to Heaven.
If you took the time to actually know your God you'd understand how forgiving he supposedly is, and that just because you're a non believer it doesn't mean you aren't worthy of going into Heaven. There are some horrible Christians who do horrible things in the name of Christianity. I kind of doubt non believers who are good people want to be grouped with those kind of people. The whole getting into Heaven thing isn't just black and white, and its kind of insulting that you decided to put it that way. So for that I think she should have been angry.
Also, why does it always end up in a discussion about religion? Have you tried to not let it go that way? Its usually insulting when someone of a particular faith can't help but lead their conversation that way; you should be more respectful.
I know that what I'm going to write is going to anger alot of people here, but please know that my intent is not to provoke you or cause any arguments. I'm feeling convicted to speak the Truth as taught in God's Holy Word. (and I believe that my freedom of speech allows for this!)
I've spoken to many non believers before about faith with varying degrees of success. I do try to steer clear of the heaven and hell thing - not because I'm afraid of their reaction or that they'll be mad at me - but because I don't think that should be the premise of understanding the Creator God - and of understanding sin and salvation. It should start with Jesus - who He was and why He came and how He is the Way to God the Father. The Holy Spirit also has to touch that persons heart in order for there to be an acceptance of the Word of God. I think though, that in the case of family or friends who are rejecting God, that constant prayer asking God to touch their lives with His presence is a good start.
I'm always dismayed at how many people on revelife cannot accept the doctrines of heaven and hell. People - it's Biblical. If you hold the Word of God as Truth - then you can't deny it. If you hold the Word of God as Truth then you have to take ALL of it - not just some of it. And Jesus Himself spoke ALOT about our eternal destiny. The Word of God is VERY clear about who will be in heaven and who won't. HOWEVER, if the Bible is NOT your Truth - if you don't think it's the infallible Word of God that has authority - well, then, you simply won't believe it.
For those who say they are Christians but don't believe in a hell - or even believe that every "good" person will go to heaven .......what is the point in being a Christian then? Why pray? Why go to church? why try to live a good life as a Christian? If all I had to do was be good in the eyes of the world, then why confess Jesus as Lord? Why call myself a Christian - ie Christ follower - and put up with persecution that comes with the territory? seems kinda useless then.
I know - not just think, but know beyond a shadow of a doubt (thank God for faith) that the doctrine of hell and heaven is true. I also know that the only people rejoicing in Heaven are those who accept Jesus as Lord and repent of their sins. Hell is for those who reject Christ. As for babies, the Bible is not clear on that, so let's not go there. But the Bible is clear about the rest. I believe that there will be ALOT of surprised people on Judgment Day who thought they were going to heaven because of their good deeds and Christ will say "I don't know you". (narrow is the path that leads to Life and few find it, and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many find it) My heart sinks for all those people - because the truth is right there. No one will have any excuse - and nothing but the blood of Christ will be good enough. I'm sorry if you disagree with me - but that's okay. One day the Truth will be known by all mankind.
@Celtic_haven@xanga - I appreciate what you wrote,.
@musterion99@xanga - I also wanted you to know that I thought you did a great job defending the Truth.
I used to be the girl you were talking to. I'd get extremely offended and upset when people said anyone who wasn't a Christian would go to hell, even though I didn't believe in hell at the time. But you're right about people not wanting to hear the truth, and often times I think that it's because they aren't being told about it in a loving way. I mean, when you see people on the streets shouting and passing pamphlets, it's easy to be turned off by them because their approach is so impersonal.
In my experience, having meaningful, and open-minded discussions about the topic is the best way to go. It's not our jobs to do the condemning and the judging, but to speak the truth in love, and I think a lot of people tend to forget that sometimes.
"Perhaps deep down inside, they know that there is a God, but they do not want to let go of their current lifestyles just yet."
I think there might be somewhat of a misinterpretation of motives of non-believers and why they aren't christians. For many, I think, "lifestyle" choices play a very small role in deterring them. Comparing the lifestyle of the average american christian and the average non-believer, the differences are not, in my opinion, substantially different.
@sarahzthoughts@xanga - "But you're right about people not wanting to hear the truth, and often times I think that it's because they aren't being told about it in a loving way."
AMEN! You hit the nail on the head, girl, :) Some people have a problem with the truth. If someone tells you they do not believe in God and then you tell them they are going to hell if they don't, they often feel that you are condemning them, looking down on them as if you are better than them. There always has to be a certain level of humility and compassion present when discussing salvation, :)