From "our" hands?  We're the church, and we're absolutely in no position to be killing society's criminals. 

But does the state hold the authority from God to execute its citizens for egregious crimes?  I am undecided, but I lean toward no.  The only blatantly applicable scripture is Romans 13, which tells us that God appoints the magistrate, who does not bear the sword in vain, but is appointed to restrain evil-doers. 

(Old Testament passages certainly can't apply, as (1) God is not the sovereign of any nation now as he was of Levitical Israel, and (2) we don't permit states to execute children for disrespecting their parents.)

Some infer that the Rom. 13 sword refers to execution of criminals, but I don't think anyone can make a good case for that.  I'd be open to hearing arguments, though.

-NDSR

Yes, I believe the state has the God-given authority to execute murderers, even though it saddens me.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Just curious... would you care to elaborate?

Amen to jmallory's comment!!! Don't get me wrong, I believe in consequences for your actions, but I think as well as that if a person has time to reflect on what they did every day of their life for the next MANY years, they might actually come to be truly remorseful for what they did and hopefully find God admist the situation. Besides we tell people not to kill yet we kill them for killing someone. What kind of a theory is that?

I guess I'm an eternal optimist, but I believe people truly can repent and be sorry for what they did. Isn't that how it works with us and God.?Sin to my knowledge is not in "degrees." I always say as long as someone is breathing, they can still find God.

This is something I struggle with, too, however, because it's obviously more EASILY said what we think we would do versus what we would really do if we walked in those shoes, say if someone killed one of our children, our family, but I always pray and hope that should I ever walk down that path, God would grant me the forgiveness needed to heal and forgive the person.

One of the most touching stories I ever read had to do with a woman whose child was killed by a man. She said while she would never understand why it came to that, she forgave Him, and while she wanted him to face the consequences, she did not want him killed. I was like WOW...truly a Christian heart, forgiving.

You know, as well, when the BTK, the notorious serial killer was finally caught, I asked the question, how many could go up to that man and hug him with a Christian heart after knowing all he did. I believe a TRUE Christian heart could, but because his murders were SO henious, not many Christians said they could. The KEY is NOT letting them avoid their consequences, but the key IS looking past their flesh to see that God loves him just as any of us regardless of his "sin."

But again, it's obviously much easier said and desired to feel the Christian way. We can speculate all we want until we have walked that path, but I do sincerely believe that God repays. I have learned, at least in my experiences, He can do a much better job than me in the revenge department. I just hope if I ever have to walk that road, God gives me the forgiving heart required to not be angry and live bitter, but to rather SOMEHOW find it in my heart to forgive. My husband, on the other hand, feels totally opposite. He says he wouldn't wait on the judicial system to handle it. He's NOT as forgiving, lol!

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Could it be argued that execution could very well be a hate crime too? After all, it is saying that someone is less than what they really are so we are killing them off. It is pretty much saying that they are also not created in the very image of God. Should there be a punishment? Yes, but there is no justice in an eye for an eye. It was simply a rule for boundaries. Christ came and taught us a new way. Love and Justice.
The Hebrew word for Justice is Mishpat. It has a two-fold meaning- Punishment for evil (what westerners tend to think of when we think of justice) and total healing and restoration. God loves Justice- but only when it is practiced correctly. If there is no healing in justice, there is no justice at all. Execution heals no one, however, to give the person a chance at life can totally change his ways. There is a chance for forgiveness and we all know that forgiveness brings healing. Mishpat.

@jmallory@xanga - If you really believe that a mass murderer or a child molester is created in the image of God, then you have a very twisted outlook on Christianity.

@m1kyo@xanga - Are you saying that only Christians who have it all together are created in the image of God? If that is what you are saying, then you have a twisted outlook on Christianity. For Doctors are for the sick. Not the healthy. Likewise, Jesus came for the sinners, not the ones who "have it all together"- as if there was a person. Yes- I say they are all created in God's image like Jesus saw that the prostitutes, tax collectors, thieves and murderers (Saul of Tarsus) were created in the image of God.

@Pickwick12@xanga - Where do you get the idea that God grants nation-states that authority? 

I just finished Jean Lassere's War and the Gospel, which had a chapter devoted to the death penalty.  Lassere argues that while God ordains the nations and their leaders, and uses them for his purposes, that they are still held to moral standards, and that life is only God's to take. 

With that fresh in my mind, I can't think of any solid biblical justification for the idea, even one I disagree with.

Help me out.

-NDSR

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - "but they are less than what they really are because of a choice they made.  no one is born to be a murderer.  it is a learned behavior."

I find that comment a little distrubing. No sin is greater than another other than the one unforgivable sin. None are beyond the grace of God, and no one is less than the image of God, no matter the mistake they made (yes- even an intentional sin). People aren't born to be murderers or rapists, but they are born into sin, which means, you could be just as likely to kill someone as anyone else- yet I would hope you would still want your chance at life regardless of what sin you may have committed.

"whether they are made in the image of God is irrelevant.  executions are carried out by the state, not the church.  if Christianity had control of the judicial system, most things that are legal now would definitely not be legal.  but it would be based on a religion that not everyone follows.  and i'm not going to support the legislation of faith."

Yes, executions are carried out by the state and not the church. My point is, the church should not support the death penalty. It is ok for the church to have an opinion. We have many after all. I am not saying we should try to ban executions- just simply not support them. That is quite alright.

"so who determines when it's correct?  according to God, burning down whole cities is a justifiable punishment for rape and violence... Jezebel is eaten by dogs simply for being pagan (now THAT'S a hate crime)..."

You can determine the correctness simply by how Jesus reacted to the death penalty and violence in general. Words like "Let he who has not yet sinned cast the first stone. (Weird how Jesus was without sin, yet he did not throw a stone.)", "Blessed are the peacemakers", "If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.", "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing.", "Blessed are the merciful", and many many others speak to me and convict me of the evil thinking of redemptive violence. If you read sirnickdon's you will see that we shouldn't look to the old testament for an excuse to use redemptive violence. After all, we don't execute people who don't obey their parents as the old testament says. But the bible shows what we should do- forgive them and love them. Yes they should be in prison, but people change.

The idea is the death penalty is against Jesus' teachings. If we claim to follow Christ, then we need to take his anti-redemptive violence stance as well as everything else he taught.

@sirnickdon - Of course, which is why I agree that Christians who support the death penalty have a skewed view on Christianity. Which in turn is why I don't believe that the argument that we should treat people who do such horrendous things as if they were in light with God is valid.

The immediate reasoning for someone wishing the death penalty is usually out of revenge but luckily enough the state is (or should be) handling it with non biased partisons to weed out the people who are naturally vengeful. There are many who believe that certain offenders should have the death penalty without having experienced the offenses themselves.

@JUSTAVAPORHERE@xanga - I'm aware of what you're saying. The opinion you just gave is practically straight from the Bible, however that is not my opinion. In my opinion I believe that since this society is not all Christian that the Bible's determination of the degrees of misconduct should not be valid. If all the "sins" were judged the same way, then society would surely collapse.

So, I agree to disagree. =)

@m1kyo@xanga - It's all good, :)! As a Christian, I just believe the Bible's rules take precedence, but as you said not all of society is Christians! Just glad I have to give account for myself, :)

But no harm in agreeing to disagree, :) Thanks for your thoughts, :)

Anytime, :)