Saturday, 15 November 2008
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Lions, Tigers, Bears...And Gay Marriage...Oh My!!
Guest post by Such_Were_You
Revelife featured my "Free At Last..." post, and as is usual for me, it stirred controversy. I'm not bothered in the least by anything my detractors had to say. I am however beginning to see some things differently.
You see I've always read my Bible, and then just expected to see the Church living out what the Bible teaches. The Bible hasn't been a book full of ideals for the 'sweet by and by,' in my life. The Bible has been tested in my life over and over again. There is no way I could have left my past sinful lifestyle without the Holy Spirit bringing the words of the Bible to life in and through me.
I believe our theology should be completely experiential...we should read the Bible and experience what it says.
It is my experience that all sin, even the worst sins, must bow before the powerful, Spirit powered, word of God. It takes time, God has never just waved His hand and changed my life. My Christian walk has been paved with "line upon line, precept upon precept..." Many times I honestly couldn't see how God could work as He did in my life. This walk toward heaven has been anything but 'a little piece of heaven.' Still I wouldn't change a thing God does, His methods, or the shroud of mystery which always surrounds His work. I do complain about God's methods, but I pray He never stops doing what He's doing.
What has been and continues to be most hurtful is how my fellow "Christians" behave toward brothers and sisters who struggle with sexual brokenness.
Look, Christians can throw anything you want at me...I've built up a tough skin. I do not know why God has worked in my life the way He has, but doesn't seem to work in the lives of my brothers and sisters who struggle against same-sex attraction, in quite the same way. I suspect that God frees some of us, so that we might be voices for the rest of His wounded people who struggle with SSA. They are sitting in your churches, and they are very afraid.
I will never forget how a pastor in my church made me feel after I told him the 'wonderful news of God's work in my life'. He said, "Don't ever tell people about your past in homosexuality." He finished with, "There is such a stigma attached to that sin, that people won't forgive....even God's people won't forgive."
I felt like I had been crushed. The hope, peace, love, and mercy of Jesus Christ was completely made null and void in that moment. The room started spinning, and I thought I would throw up as wave after wave of terror, panic, and hopelessness twisted my insides. Suddenly a volcanic magma shot up from my toes vaporizing every other feeling as it exploded into my tongue. I had to bite my lip so hard I could taste the salty iron of my own blood. My tongue was full of bitterness and accusation. HOW...HOW....HOW...HOW??? Thrummed the word over and over again in my steaming mind.
'How' was just the first word that wanted to explode from my mouth to blister and melt the man of God seated in front of me. I don't know how I held my tongue. There must have been an angel in the room keeping my lips sealed. I don't know how I rose from my chair without trembling. I don't know how I remained under control. I don't know how I got out of the room, the building, or into my car. But when the car door was shut the seal on my lips burst, and out poured flames burning the air with molten scalding shouts of rage....
HOW GOD?!?!? YOU TELL ME HOW!!!??? HOW CAN THEY BE YOUR PEOPLE AND NOT FORGIVE?!?!?!? HOW CAN THEY CALL THEMSELVE CHRISTIANS WHEN THEY DON'T FORGIVE???? ANSWER ME GOD!!! DO YOU HEAR ME GOD?????!!!!!!
The rage in my body nearly broke the steering wheel of my car.
The question still stands today: How God? How can people who call themselves Christians continue to be so unloving??
Christians aren't losing with gay marriage, gay rights, or gay anything. Christians have lost something much greater: The winsome, life changing, beautiful and powerful truth that Jesus HAS overcome the world. The Bible clearly tells us that we are not to behave toward those outside the 'family' as they treat us. We are to bless and not curse; we are to do good to those who treat us badly; we are to pray for those who call us enemy.
What I've heard most from Christians is, "Well, they started it." Let me ask you, where in the Bible is the list of acceptable excuses? God commands that we deal with our enemies differently from how they deal with us. He does it, because He has ordained that only His way, through His Son, can work. I used to say, "Gay people scare the hell out of Christians!" BUT the truth is, "Gay people scare Jesus out of Christians, and that's why they act like Hell toward gay people."
I love what Martin Luther King Jr. said:
"That old law about 'an eye for an eye' leaves everybody blind. The time is always right to do the right thing."
I've been operating under the assumption; the belief; that God's people read His word, and obey it. I have been wrong in my assumption. What so many of God's people have been doing is operating under the law of "An eye for an eye." "If gays picket, march, shout, demand, and etc. then we Christians will do the same thing!" Is it little wonder that Christians are so blind to the plight of gay people? Dr. King said something else that applies:
"A riot is at bottom the language of the unheard."
Gay people rioted in NYC during the Summer of 1969. Those riots were called the Stone Wall riots, and were the beginning of the gay rights movement. Christians may call it what ever we like, but the Stone Wall riots were the language of the unheard.
I am absolutely convinced that God wanted His Church to hear gay people. God looked down upon gay people and saw men and women suffering, oppressed, hiding in darkness, and in fear for their very lives. God wants to reach gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, and transgendered people with His mercy, love, and freedom from sin. There was, however, a huge obstacle in His way....His own people; the Church. The Church wouldn't go into the darkness where LGBT people were hiding in fear and hopelessness. So God allowed, perhaps even helped, gay people to make their voices heard. The Church can't help but hear gay people now!!!
Martin Luther King Jr. is doing such a good job I'm going to let him preach a bit more:
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
AND
"Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend."
But it is God who will have the final words:
Don’t let evil conquer you, but conquer evil by doing good. Romans 12:21 (NLT)
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Comments (77)
Beautiful - says an outwardly gay human being. *huggles*
I've got some bad news for you. You wrote out a well-reasoned, well-researched and scriptural basis for your position. You wrote it with a tone of respect to all involved, and in a spirit of prophetic correction.
Now watch the flames and abuse roll on in.
-NDSR
"I suspect that God frees some of us, so that we might be voices for the
rest of His wounded people who struggle with SSA. They are
sitting in your churches, and they are very afraid."
The thing is, I don't think that everyone who has SSA 'struggles' with it. I find no Scriptural basis to say that simply having SSA is sinful.
(I don't mean to hijack your thread, b/c I know that that wasn't the 'point' of why you wrote this, but just wanted to throw that out there; as a gay Christian, I really appreciate what you wrote
).
You have some good points. There are so many times that even Christians are judgemental toward other people, as if we are somehow better....I know this is wrong! I mean, Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven! It's only the grace of God and His forgiveness that keeps us from going down that same road that we'd condemn others for. For me, specifically, I have to work on my pride....as if I'm somehow better than other people. I know I should have compassion and forgiveness more than the judgemental thoughts that I know I have....
First of all - for someone to tell you that you should not talk about your sinful past of homosexuality after being saved by the grace of God - is totally and completely WRONG. It is true - many of God's people (and some only claim to be His people) do not forgive. That is a sin. Crying out to God is a good thing to do in a situation like that - but don't ever follow what a person tells you - follow what God says in His Word! (Not assuming you don't, just some encouraging words about the man who told you not to bring up your past.)
I went to church with a man who had been living as a homosexual. He made a public repentance in church one Sunday morning. He didn't stay at the church and I have since moved on from there as well. I don't know if he went back to that lifestyle or if he just moved to another church. However, I thought it took great courage to come forward, broken and weeping, to obey God's calling on his heart. I rejoiced with him and praised God for the work he did in this man's heart.
That said, I also know someone who is actively living a homosexual life. She somewhat claims to be a Christian, and she is proud of her lifestyle. She is not broken, she isn't sorrowful, and seems to have no struggle with her choice of lifestyle. I do not rejoice with her. She is going against what God clearly says in His Word. (By the way - brothers and sisters are those who are in Christ - not just anyone. Active homosexuals are not Christians. The Bible is very clear about people who claim to be Christians but walk in lifestyles of darkness - but that's for another blog.)
The man was no different from the woman before his repentance. If he died - he would have gone to hell. If she dies on this night, she will too. However, if homosexuals who have turned from their life of sin and have turned to Christ instead do not speak of their past, how can they ever expect to help homosexuals who are struggling, and who are broken? As with any other Christian - we all have to realize the sin of our past before we can appreciate the salvation of our present, and the promises of our future.
It is wrong to never speak of your past for fear of what others might say or not forgive. We are not here to please or have forgiveness of men - we are here to glorify God. My goodness - look at Paul! What a past he had! Homosexuality is an abomination to God (abomination means it disgusts God), but God is a longsuffering and forgiving God. He will forgive repentant homosexuals, as he forgave those of us who were not homosexuals but lived a life in rejection to Him. We as Christians are expected to forgive and rejoice with repentant sinners who come to Christ. If we don't - well - God will deal with us when we get our Romans 14:12. (Also read Jonah - who did not want the people of Nineveh saved!)
Well, I am sad that you have been treated that way. Forgiveness is not always easy to give. Have you forgiven the pastor for offending you like that? Pray for those who have personally hurt you over this issue, the pastor you talked about and whoever else. Pray that God will open their hearts and them and show them the truth about forgiveness. None of us deserved the forgiveness we have received from God... and if you think about how much you have sinned against Him, done things that are offensive and shameful to God... it will probably put into perspective the fact that you also need to forgive the pastor for offending you. These kinds of things are going to happen all throughout life. Don't let one bad experience with that pastor make your heart bitter toward others. Yes, we should be living the way God tells us to, but it's not really fair to hold it over someone's head when we are just as filthy as everyone else.
Never really had a definite opinion about this whole SSA thing. At the end of the day, it is something between an individual and God. Though I do not discount the responsibility of a fellow brother or sister to confront SSA in another person's life. But the confrontation is within the context of a relationship. Love your neighbor as yourself.
As for the public/law sphere of things, I think legislating morality is a tricky thing. I read the Lawrence v. Texas case and the reasons for the decisions are not trivial. An opinion about the role of homosexuality in our government cannot be made without reading what our justices have said and carefully considering the greater ramifications of legislating morality.
First, I just want to say that it makes me sad that your Pastor told you that. It's completely untrue to say that God's people won't forgive. I know lots of people who would rejoice with you or anyone else if they were to overcome ANY sin they have been struggling with.
I often wonder how it is that we Christians, and specifically myself, can reach out to the gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, and transgender community. I don't know, maybe someone has some suggestions?
@hubbaduh@xanga - I don't think the same sex attraction is sinful. However, the Bible is clear that acting upon it is. Just like the temptation to steal, or to lust, or to lie in themselves are not sinful. It's if you do it, or perhaps dwell upon it, that it is.
If you go to the author's site he has a lot of good posts regarding the subject.
@Tom - " However, the Bible is clear that acting upon it is"
There are actually A LOT of people who would debate you on that issue.
I will not be one of those people though
@sunshinekl@xanga - "I often wonder how it is that we Christians,
and specifically myself, can reach out to the gay, lesbian, bi-sexual,
and transgender community. I don't know, maybe someone has some
suggestions?"
I think that too often, Christians make homosexuality 'the sin to end all sins' and when reaching out to those in the lgbt community, they make it all about their orientation. Instead, I think that it's best to focus on how we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Whether or not someone is gay or straight, they still have sinned and need forgiveness for those sins. I think that when we realise that those in the lgbt community are the same as those who are not, it goes a long way.
i went to a Proposition 8 protest today, and there were several pastors, ministers, reverends, etc. from a few denominations there to remind us that God is the embodiment of love, and that in His eyes, love is never a sin. as a Christian struggling with being persecuted by fellow Christians (i'm bisexual), it moved me to tears. it was amazing to see such signs as, "Lutherans for Equality", "Who Would Jesus Hate?", and my favorite... "Proposition H8: Did You Cast A Ballot Or A Stone?" it's been a long time since i've been with other Christians and felt that kind of love and acceptance.
@hubbaduh@xanga - *hug* i love your avatar, and i'm glad to see i'm not the only one here.
@hubbaduh@xanga - I completely agree. I guess I was talking about on a more practical level. I haven't really encountered anyone who is lgbt who isn't outwardly proud of who they are and the way they live their life. So I don't even know how to talk to someone like that. I try very hard not to push my beliefs in other people's faces and I try to speak the Truth in love. Honestly I don't really have much opportunity to meet anyone anymore who is lgbt. So I guess that's why I find it difficult to know how to reach out.
@sunshinekl@xanga - Well, I think that even if they are proud of the way that they're living their life (that I'm assuming your perceive as sinful), I think that you can just bypass that part. I think that for a lot within the lgbt community, as a minority group, they feel defined by the majority based off of something that is simply a small part of their lives...and over time, they've embraced that to be a bigger and bigger part of how they define themselves.
Practically speaking, I think that we just need to love people and not treat them any differently. I tend to think that women have an easier time with that than men. It seems that heterosexual women aren't as threatened by lesbians as heterosexual men are by gay men. I think that we just need to realise that they're people too, just like us.
Just some thoughts
Bravo, that my friend was beautifully done.
I loved every word of it.
You are remarkable, I used to think differently about this sort of thing.
But while reading what you wrote I felt like a huge burden was taken off my shoulders and my spirits lifted.
And once again. - Bravo.
It is my experience that all sin, even the worst sins, must bow before the powerful, Spirit powered, word of God.
Agreed. It's too easy for us to point out the speck in the other person's eye and neglect the plank in our own.
The question still stands today: How God? How can people who call themselves Christians continue to be so unloving??
We like to make up a hierarchy of sin: with our own sin being not so bad, and we make everyone else's sin much worse...It's all about justifying our own behavior and rationalizing our own sin before God. And often the way to do that is to compare ourselves to others who we want to believe have sinned worse than us. "I'm not as as bad as so and so." "I would never do such and such." The problem is all sin is an abomination to God.
@Tom - What about Matthew 5:28: "But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart"?
@naphtali_deer@xanga - To be attracted to the same sex, or the opposite sex for that matter, doesn't mean to lust after them. Lust is a sin, I think I actually stated that in my original comment.
... Although rereading my comment, I can see where what I said could be misconstrued. What I meant was that the temptation to steal, the temptation to lust, or the temptation to lie are not in of themselves sinful, but, stealing, lusting, or lying are sinful.
@naphtali_deer@xanga - "We like to make up a hierarchy of sin: with
our own sin being not so bad, and we make everyone else's sin much
worse...It's all about justifying our own behavior and rationalizing
our own sin before God."
Bingo.
@sirnickdon - LOL, that's an interesting point
No doubt this is a controversial issue. It amazes me that out of all the sins, Christians seem to have the biggest beef with homosexuality so much to the point that we see people from Westboro baptist church spouting hate and crap, picketing funerals and what not. Oh and one of my personal favorites from the recent Prop 8: "Gay marriages ruins families!"
Personally, this is one of those issues that has baffled me for a while now because it makes me think that, "Okay, IF God's word is true, then for a Christians, grace is NOT enough to get into Heaven. No, no, no... You have to also be STRAIGHT to get into Heaven."
Which does not register in my mind correctly. It's a big oxymoron for me. Would Jesus accept a Christian homosexual who has went through his life with these feelings?? Would he welcome him at the gates of heaven??? Or would he say, "Sorry, bud, only straights in my crib."
Then what is Love, my friends? What is Love? Wasn't Love, the greatest love at least, "a man laying down his life for his friends"? Who are these "friends"? Can a homosexual be one of his "friends"?
I know I might be flamed for these rather "liberal" thinkings, but this is just me musing. I am always open to what other people have in mind, especially if they don't necessarily share the same thoughts.
Thank you, I LOVED this. I'm not gay, but I believe that those people should have the right to be gay. Looking at all the people who agree with you, I'm shocked that states still deny them the right to marry.
"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." - Matthew 14:14-15.
Quite simply, those who choose to not forgive you will have to answer to God himself, and I'm fairly certain that he is not going to be very happy with their response. I find it an incredible testimony to God's work in your life that you still speak of that pastor with respect and forgiveness.
@Tom - Thanks for clarifying.
I guess this writer missed the verses of the Bible where the Kings of Judah who were considered Godly rid the land of sodomites. To be honest, I have nto seen Christians who have picketed Gay Bars, protested in front of GLAAD, GLSEN, GLBT, or GSA offices, buildings or facilities, such as what has happened with Christians, Catholics, and Mormons as of late, especially considering the reaction of the homosexual community with regards to Proposition 8 (please see my recent article concerning Proposition 8 and the reaction here).
And how does this writer know and totally assume that the Church of Jesus Christ has done nothing with regards to reachign the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgendered community? What if I told this writer that I know of at least ten churches in the Kansas City Metro Area that have reached out and made themselves open to the GLBT community, some of them with amazing success? How often have I been lectured that my mindset against homosexuality and my posts defending the Church in this regard been labelled as "so `90s", yet this is exactly what this article upholds as far as an attitude towards the church not reaching out? As my Dad has always said, "Assuming is dangerous".
I hate that your preacher said that to you. I think our situations and experiences that happen to us are used for many reasons, 1) to tell what God has done for us, 2) to let others know they are not the first to have been in a particular situation, 3) to show that God can deliver, plus many more! I really believe this.
While I do not agree with homosexuality, I still love the people that are homosexuals. God commanded that we love, not judge!
I once heard a saying that has stayed with me from Joel Olsteen. He said people look at their lives through rose-colored glasses but want to look at other's through a microscope...How true is that?
A lot of Christians forget that we are to love with humility and compassion...That doesn't mean tell someone the life of homosexuality you are living is right and all good, but rather it does mean to love them whatever shape they are in and pray for them. God will take it from there, at least has been in my experience.
Cheryl