Friday, 31 October 2008
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Can Christians Acknowledge Muhammad As a Prophet?
Guest submitted by irishgrrl690
My father and I both think that Muhammad was a prophet. I know that in itself isn't so strange, but my mother says that no "good" Christian would believe that Muhammad was a prophet and, much less, had the ear of God. I don't see why that's not possible and I also don't see why we can't acknowledge Islam's prophet when they acknowledge all of ours.
This is one of those ongoing debates that my dad and I have with my mom. We believe in some non-biblical, spiritual concepts like reincarnation and also that Muhammad was a pretty awesome prophet who (if nothing else) preached similar ideals to Judeo-Christianity. To mother, these two beliefs are practically blasphemy. So maybe I'm not Lutheran--although that's how I worship and live? I'm a Christian Spiritualist? I think it's ridiculous that she considers me UN-Christian even though I still believe in Christ as the Son of God. Isn't the that whole point of being called a Christian?
We still only pray to capital-g-o-d. Just because my dad and I take a more theologically open-minded approach to it doesn't make us heathens; it makes us henotheistic and I don't see why that's a problem. Early Jews and Christians were also henotheistic. You can do this (in my opinion) insofar as you also follow the rule of your religion: worship no other gods before me. Just because I acknowledge Muhammad as a prophet (the last one) doesn't mean I now worship a different God. So, can someone explain to me how this is un-Christian? Because I don't get it.
Is it possible for God to have spoken through Muhammad? Can you be a Christian and acknowledge Muhammad as a true prophet?
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Comments (169)
@m1kyo@xanga - No it is not.
1.
Islam teaches that salvation is earned by good deeds. Christianity teaches that salvation is a gift.
2.
Islam teaches that salvation is unknown, and that Allah saves whom he wills.
Christianity states that Jesus died for all, and that it is upto the person to accept that sacrifice
3.
Islam teaches that Jesus was a prophet, a precursor to Mohammad,
Christianity teaches that Christ was the son of God, God incarnante on earth, sent to die to pay for the sins of Man.
4.
Allah is merciful, only if placated by sacrifice to ignore his justice
God sacrificed his own Son to fulfill his Justice
5.
Allah tells his adherents to slay the infedels where they stand
Jesus told his disciples to shake the dust off their sandels and leave instead of creating a fuss
There are many fundamental differences between Islam and Christianity, and thus they can not be reconciled to equate each other. Let me ask you a question.
If you believe that Jesus was a prophet of Allah, and Jesus himself says that he was the Son of God...then how is it that Islam can doubt that?
@Evowookiee@xanga - You have stated the true Christian case very clearly indeed. The Lord Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. Indeed He is God the Son. As you have put the New Testament position so well, there is salvation in no one else. He came to die in our place, to take the punishment for my sin and yours. Only by acknowledging one's sins and repenting of them and by trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work of redemption on the cross of Calvary do we pass from death into life eternal!
Like so many others, I want to be friends with everyone. But someone else's loyalty to a different prophet than the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, puts an impossible roadblock preventing full fellowship between that other person and me - be he Muslim, Buddhist, or another religion. All religions are NOT equal and all right. Christ Himself stated emphatically that there is no other way than by Him to come to God the Father!
All the people on this earth are human beings, created in the image of God. But Satan has "blinded the minds" of those who do not believe the Christian Gospel. We long for them to come to know Him "Whom to know is life eternal."
There are such things as false prophets.
This is not a matter of returning the favor. If we Christians, believe that Jesus is the Son of God--and people believe otherwise, for example, that he was SIMPLY a prophet... Then that's not a favor. That's calling us liars. That's calling Jesus a liar.
@Grampa_David@xanga - Thank you very much. I stand up very much for people's right to believe what they wish, but that does not mean that I have to agree that everyone is right. It seems to be a sticking point in this post-modernist society.
The simple answer is you can NOT be considered prophetic when you are "mistaken" when you allude to speak for God.
@elgaberino@xanga - Many of your points are valid ones, I'm glad to see you've done your research!
I can see how acknowledging Mohammed as a prophet would not be conducive to some Christians beliefs.The "forced conversions" are terribly similar to what Christians did during the 11th and 12 centuries. It was a means to unite a sprawling Visigoth/Frankish "empire" under a united faith and also give strength to a failing papacy.
The "works" that you describe are key cornerstones of the Islam faith, but they are eerily similar to those followed by Christians (tithing, aiding the poor, praying in communication with God, etc) and even Lutherans (which I am) follow these as means to become closer to their god and walk a more Christian path. I think I know of the works that you reference, but could you give me examples?
@saxy_grrl@xanga - That's a good plan. It was only after reading the Qu'ran that I realized how similar the Christian and early Hebrew ideals were to Islam. It's a totally different piece of literature from the Talmud or the Bible. Good luck though! Check back and tell me what you think :)
@musterion99@xanga - What makes him a false prophet if he preached the Kingdom of God in a similar sense of distributive justice?
The reason that I don't acknowledge "prophets" after Mohammed is because I see their ideologies as a distinct separation from those before (and including) Mohammed. It's as simple as that. The disparity is not concurrent with my ideals and beliefs and so I do not see them as connected to the same God.
@LLroomtempJ@xanga - What makes him a false prophet?
@Evowookiee@xanga - I would argue that it is the same God that is being worshipped (this is what is alluded to in the Qu'ran since it incorporates the histories of Judeo-Christianity). Just because the interpretation of God is different, does not mean it is a different God. Even within the Bible there are two very different interpretations of God-- a retributive one (The Old Testament) and a more distributive one (The New Testament).
But Jesus stated that he was the Messiah, not a prophet but THE MESSIAH. So how can you regard him as a prophet if he is either A: the son of god, or B: a lunatic?
Muhammad made no such claim and his teachings are Fundamentally different from that of Christianity.
It seems to me that Mohammed did mostly the same thing. If you look at the teachings themselves, you'll find many similarities to Christianity. I don't know if you've read the Qu'ran, or even if you intend to, but many of the fundamentals are based on the distributive justice that Jesus (and, in fact, the Ten Commandments) preached. If not their titles, then their teachings are similar and joined in my ideology.
@johncadengo@xanga - I see him as a prophet of the same God, though not as divine as he proposes himself to be. Your opinions on that?
@rocknrollklown@xanga - I was going to say the exact same thing.
@irishgrrl690@xanga - I think you've answered your own question. No?
@irishgrrl690@xanga - While you are right about the differences 'per se' in the New Testament and the Old Testament, it still cannot rectify the difference between the salvaic methods of Christianity, Judiasm and Islam.
The difference of perspective you speak of is what we call the differences of the Covenants. The Abrahamic, Mosaic, covenants between God and Man (I will make your decendents as numerous as the stars in the heaven- Abraham....and then the Law) and finally the death of Jesus on the Cross (the final Covenant.) The first two were to display the inadequacies of man to save himself. He was unable to sacrifice enough, to be holy enough, or to live a 'good enough' life to be able to commune with God. In the end, it tood the final sacrifice, Jesus, to end the non-stop cycle of sin/sacrifice. Hebrews states as such, that those pre-Jesus looked forward with Faith to his sacrifice, just as we now look backward to Jesus. Its not a change in God's status...its a change in ours. Same God...different us.
But Allah is not the same God as the one that Christians worship, even if we all have our roots in judiac tradition. The lynch pin is Jesus, and Jesus' divinity.
I don't understand why people are so...pc on here. Why would I accept other "prophets" for what they supposedly where just because they may see Jesus as something a little less than what we believe he was? Its ridiculous...sorry, no. Doesn't work that way. I am not going to say otherwise to make someone feel all warm and fuzzy inside about their personal beliefs.
Mohammed was/is/never will be anything of importance to me. So I definitely don't see him as a prophet. If that offends you, sorry, I am not out on a mission to make everyone in the world happy, especially if it means watering down my beliefs.
Why is it that if someone sticks up for their beliefs, they are all of a sudden "close-minded" and "intolerant"? This PC world we live in is such bull. If you are Islamic and think Jesus was a fraud, then just say it! It goes for everyone, speak your beliefs since this is one of the few countries where we are still allowed to do so.
@irishgrrl690@xanga -
"Early Jews and Christians were also henotheistic."
A case can be made for the idea that early Judaism was henotheistic, but that case is a lot harder to make for early Christians.
Deuteronomy and Isaiah both contain passages that use the clear language of there is only one God and no others. Judaism, if it was ever henotheistic, seems to clearly embrace monothiesm at some point in time. I am not aware of any influential early christian schools of thought that were anything besides monotheistic (except well maybe for the Arian Controversy which had to do with the relationship between Jesus and God). I'd be interested to hear about some, if there were groups that existed.
@johncadengo@xanga - Since my underlying question is whether or not that stated belief makes me Unchristian... no? I don't think I'm doing another religion a "favor" because I see an innate connection between the social justice beliefs of these two religions. I guess I'm a little confused as to how I'm calling Jesus a liar.
@Big_Esh@xanga - I never meant to call people who disagree with my acknowledgement of Mohammed as close-minded. I really just want this for the purpose of discussion. I'm grappling with the question, is all. You are most CERTAINLY entitled to your beliefs!
@whataboutbahb@xanga - The montheism I believe happend after the exile. Funny enough, the demonology of the Religion followed suit. In my opinion, they replaced their beliefs in other 'gods' with Angels and demons.
@whataboutbahb@xanga - There were groups of Jews-on-their-way-to-conversion who didn't necessarily cut of their other beliefs, and there were many early Christian communities who shared the new ideals of Christ but persisted in their Hebrew traditions such as Passover. There were also later Visigoth Christians who continued to practice their pagan religions in conjunction with Christianity, and the Church even "encouraged" such practices as shared holiday purposes so that the pagans could transition (or somewhat follow) to Christianity.
The latter example was out of practicality as much as the Jewish henotheism and the early Christian henotheism was. Does that answer your question?
@Big_Esh@xanga - I so agree. I hate the whole PC thing. And let us pray that our freedom to speak our mind continues. :)
@irishgrrl690@xanga - What makes him a false prophet if he preached the Kingdom of God in a similar sense of distributive justice?
The justice of God was to lay all our sins on Jesus so that we can be forgiven through the atonement that Jesus made. Islam flat out rejects this.
Two things.
I'd like to ask the question if Mohamed said he, himself, was "divine". Obviously, if he said he was then he did so because that's what his god told him; it would be rash to say "I'm divine because I'm a prophet".
Secondly, is Islam (the religion, or gospel, which he preached) works based? (In the sense that works earn salvation and make up that gospel) Because you make the argument that the god he spoke of could be the same God in the Bible. In the Bible, New and Old Testaments, the Judizers tried to earn their salvation (ignoring that the Law was put in place to make mankind realized it is depraved), but Jesus called them hypocrites that would not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. So is Mohamed's gospel the equivalent of the "Judizers' gospel" in terms of works? Cause that's not the same god.
And that's just two of the disconnects.
@musterion99@xanga - This is not my interpretation of Christ's distributive justice. Under your interpretation, you are correct.
@metal_core1@xanga - 1. I'm not entirely certain if he called himself divine, but he did hear the angel Michael speaking to him the words of the Qu'ran
2. It is based on (as far as I have read in the Qu'ran as well as religious historical texts) the Five Pillars.
-1. There is One God, Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet.
-2. One must pray daily, five times, facing Mecca
-3. Almsgiving--charity to poor, etc
-4. Ramadan--fasting during the 9th lunar month
-5. "hajj" or pilgrimage to Mecca
In later times, a sixth pillar, jihad, was incorporated. Jihad was the internal struggled between human nature and striving to be muslim, or submissive, to Allah..
If there's a Muslim who would like to fact check this, PLEASE DO!Insofar as you believe those to be works or not... I'll let you be the judge.
@irishgrrl690@xanga - Then you are denying the atonement of Jesus on the cross. How can you say you're a Christian and deny that? Either what the bible says is true or the Koran. Which is it?
If you think Muhammed was truely a prophet. Why aren't you following him? If you think Jesus was the Son of God, why aren't you following him? If you think they were both prophets, you are following neither.
The distributive justice that I refer to is the acceptance of the marginalized, the inclusion of the rejected, the downcast and the weak. Mohammed's Qu'ran provides specific protection for widows and orphans (he married a widow and was an orphan, interestingly enough) as his pillar of almsgiving is clearly meant to distribute one's wealth as goods to those who need them--I don't think this sort of social justice would be distasteful to Jesus' very similar teachings of the presentness of the Kingdom of God. Their suggested lifestyles are very similar.
That sort of social justice is to what I am referring.
The overlapping ideas in both the Koran and the Bible are what present this conundrum to me.
@irishgrrl690@xanga - Just because the Qu'ran and the Bible speak of giving to the poor and taking care of widows and orphans and other "good works" does not mean it is OK to "believe" both and worship allah and God. You are riding the fence. You have to make a choice. Either Jesus is your Savior or He is not and if He is than you also believe that He is the only way. If you believe that you can incorporate other belief systems into what you believe about Jesus than you are not a Christian and you have already decided what side of the fence you are going to come down on.