Thursday, 30 October 2008
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Why Bash Christianity on Christian Message Boards?
Guest post submitted by Crosseyed_Jesus_FreakTN
I was just on another website looking at a group that I belong to about waiting until you are married to have sex, which is a very deep conviction of mine. While I was looking around on the group page, however, I found a very interesting conversation that seemed really off-topic. This person had started a discussion stating that she didn't believe that God had made much of a sacrifice if one at all, when Jesus died on the cross.
This got my attention because I wanted to see where she was going to go with this. I started reading the responses to her statements and where she in turn took the conversation. By the end of the post, which was pretty current by the way, it was very apparent that this person did not believe in Christianity or the Omnipotent, Omnibenevolent God that I believe in and try to serve every day. The group page that this was taking place on was a mostly Christian group. This whole thing really got me thinking about why people would join a group like that in which they don't believe what the group stands for just so they can start an argument.
Do people really join groups like this just to bash someone's belief system? I mean, I have no problem with someone trying to get their opinion across, but this just seemed like a direct attack. She was arguing against every reply that she got. It just seemed like she was doing this just to try and argue with people that she didn't agree with whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I love a good debate and any Christian should be able to defend their faith against any and all attacks. What was very apparent about this discussion, however, is that she was asking for proof of statements even though she was just saying anything that she wanted to without proof. She was claiming that the Bible wasn't a reliable source and that anyone that used it to back up their claims were almost ignorant.
I realize that people who don't believe in God wouldn't really see the need in believing the Bible, but it is the inspired word of God. I have a deep passion for what the Bible has to tell us and how it can give a deepening relationship with God. I guess I'm writing this because this woman really got me thinking about a couple of questions that seem to pop up all too often: 1) Why do people feel that it is necessary to challenge Christians in any way that they can? 2) Why do other people expect Christians to be tolerant of every other belief in this world, yet most people that aren't Christian seem to not be tolerant of our beliefs, 3) Why is it so hard for Christians to stand up and give the same answers to a direct attack like what I saw today? (There were plenty of responses but unfortunately it seemed as if some were arguing with what other Christians were saying instead of standing united against those attacks.)
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Comments (56)
People join Christian message groups to bash on them for the same reason many Christians join groups to tell them their beliefs are wrong. It's a double edged sword.
I'm a Mormon; back in the day I was on Myspace and a member of a few groups. We'd have great discussions and always someone would coem and tell us we were wrong and try everythin in their power to get us flustered and to discount our beliefs.
I live in Utah, which is predominantely LDS. There is a preacher (who from what I can tell is not your normal Christian. A lot of his views are skewed from what I learned in my religion class about Evangelicalism... very skewed) but he comes to campus at least once a week for months, most of the time 3 or 4 times a week, to tell us we are wrong.
I believe people join Christian message boards, and any other message board, because the spirit of the devil has gotten to them. It's one thing to spread your beliefs and try and make people see the truth; it's a completely different thing to start debates and try and cause contention. The spirit of contention is of the devil.
It's the same way with Christians joining atheist groups to get their opinions out there.
With people like this, we need to not argue with them, but instead, love them and let them have their opinion. Arguing isn't going to bring them any closer to Christ.
@ThatSady_MittGurl@xanga - I agree. There are always two sides to the story. Posting ideas and sharing different perspectives is one thing, but bashing each other and trying to get people to convert is another.
I used to be one of those who joined atheist message boards to troll. Thank God I grew up and grew out of that.
I will say it is part of the human nature. People don't like to be under certain kind of authority because of the nature of individualism and selfishness. The nature of Christian value is against these two kinds of human nature, so that's why people in general will have the resistance incentive.
When the message board is open for public (without displaying real name), we do expect that certain people will leave emotional message. However, I do support to have a public message board. For Christian, the daily life is a spiritual war and it’s a way to spread God’s word. For Non-Christian, it’s a chance to brainstorm why they care about that.
: )
Because it's fun.
@Jan_Nices@xanga -
"I will say it is part of the human nature. "
I agree, but for different reasons than you provided. Cognitive dissonance shows that it is typical behavior for people to try and convince (or "convert") other people what they believe in (or to take a similar action,etc), because it reinforces that person's confidence in their own belief/their own action/etc.
"People don't like to be under certain kind of authority because of the nature of individualism and selfishness."
Individualism is a very western concept. More collectivist societies revolve around the family/group/societal structure.
And I'm not even sure in western culture it is accurate to say it is human nature to not want to be under authority (esp a higher being). It is human nature to want a purpose and to be afraid of the unknown. Belief in a higher being solves both of these.
Well, we can take comfort in the words of Jesus when He said if the world hates us, to remember it hated Him first.
People who are not Christians hate God. They might not say they do, and maybe they don't even think they do - but that's what it boils down to. If they loved Him, they would believe in what He says...everything He says! People do not want to be told what to do, how to live, or that they are not the most important. They really don't want to be told they are sinning because that means they are not in control - they'd have to admit God is and with that, they have to admit they're rebelling against the Living God.
God is so wonderful. We, no matter how much we love Him as Christians, can't always say the same about ourselves. People hate God and they hate us, too. They want a reaction, they want to make us angry, and they want to shake or disprove our faith. We have to be so careful in how we deal with them - because we are always called to be who God has called us and expects us to be. If we treat them the same way they treat us - we are not acting like believers.
We can't control their actions or words, but we can control ours! Other Christians are watching us too, and if we act in a manner that does not glorify our Lord when defending against attacks - we damage our testimony and we begin to lose credibility.
The worst way to reach an unbeliever is to act like one!
I am glad someone else has seen this pattern - I have posted blogs or comments about God and the truth of His Word - and have gotten a lot of attacks in response...sadly by some so-called Christians who don't seem to really believe the Bible. I got so many that I actually wrote a blog on my page about it called "Loving God in Spite of the World."
Christians hang in there - it's not good to be attacked, but doesn't it feel good to know we are truly His children?!
Praise God for allowing us to suffer for Him!
They're looking for answers.
@whataboutbahb@xanga - Very nicely put, especially the second half.
Human beings are social creatures, we need to be around other people or we start naming and talking to volleyballs (poor, poor Wilson...lost at sea - God rest his soul). If we're feeling particularly alone we'll come up with anything to keep ourselves sane (and thus was born Sir Wilson McBall). It's much easier to feel like we're part of something if there are others who share our beliefs, and this is where religion comes in.
@HeartOfPandora@xanga -
A good example of a case study that illustrates the effect cognitive dissonance can have in regards to when beliefs are show to be most likely false- Here.
I do not think it is needed for a belief to be false (or most likely false) for a person to seek to convert other people to their view or opinion though. I think the more invested (time wise, money wise, emotionally, etc) a person is in a belief system, whether it is true or false or really unknowable either way, the more likely they will seek out actions that can reduce possible dissonance arising (and one of these being converting others).
1) Their reasons will vary. Some have legitimate questions and the website they're visiting seems like their best option for getting decent answers. Some are smug pricks who want to feel superior. Some are somewhere in the middle.
2) Christianity (or stereotypes of it) is a lot more familiar to many Americans. It has some baggage in that respect. Unfortunately, some of their faults with Christians are perfectly understandable. Furthermore, it is exclusive in some ways. In a spiritual sense, those who in the dark don't appreciate the light shining on them. Anyway, if they were more familiar with some of the other aspects of different religions, they'd bash those too (e.g., start talking about women having to cover up in public).
3) On a forum, if someone is asking serious questions, they probably want solid answers. If someone is well-intentioned but gives a wrong answer, a later poster would be remiss to just second the earlier poster. I don't think they should lambaste them or anything, but they could perhaps tweak it some.
@jmallory@xanga - thank you for saying that ur right we have to love them into the kingdom of God yelling won't get you anywhere youy catch more flys with honey than vinger right?
I am Christian and for them to state that they see that our Father made no sacrifice for us, disturbs me. HOWEVER from a logical point of view, she is entitled to her opinion and if she titles herself as a Christian, she has not fully understood the teachings of God.As for your questions at the bottom...
1) Why do people feel that it is necessary to challenge Christians in any way that they can? -- Its not only about challenging the Christians. All religion, all countries, all people in this world feel the need to challenge each other for what they believe is right...(for them anyways)...so ask yourself...why are you feeling the necessity to challenge the ones who challenge faith?
2) Why do other people expect Christians to be tolerant of every other belief in this world, yet most people that aren't Christian seem to not be tolerant of our beliefs, -- Well....why question their belief? It sort of seems you are also expecting them to view and accept your belief...All forms of beliefs actually states that they are the only "God" in this world and whom ever shall follow the path of a religion must only see its "God."
3) Why is it so hard for Christians to stand up and give the same answers to a direct attack like what I saw today? -- You are generalizing "Christians" in this question. You can't change a persons mind just because you stand up for what you believe because either way...they'll stand up and hold their ground. Also, God teaches us to be humble. That we should forgive. Even those who are ignorant enough to not accept Him.
Perhaps they (at least subconsciously) hope that if the Christians in question respond angrily, hatefully, judgmentally, etc. they will be able to reinforce their stereotyped view of Christianity?
Or maybe they just enjoy pushing people's buttons. Trolling is the term, I believe.
In something like a defense, Christians do tend to have a lot of very visible buttons in easy reach.
@whataboutbahb@xanga -
Thanks for your input : )
Actually, I "borrow" the word "individualism" to express the nature of self-central. I think that the origin of "individualism" is more cuItural and/or political related. But the concept base is same as self-center, which means "I am everything." Also, "individualism" sounds more neutral than selfishness :P
Although the term is come from western countries, the self-central nature do apply to other countries/regions such as Asia. I can see the similar situation in other Christian message board. The only difference is the language... sometimes the "debate" is becoming irrational.
Anyway, I guess it is the best time to practice our "self-control", one of the spiritual fruits, when things gone not-so-friendly.
Some people just like making other people think. Some people just like pissing other people off.
I've been on many forums, and those are the only two motivations I've ever encountered for attacking another person's belief system.
I've heard that Christianity is the religion or belief that other religions or beliefs like to attack the most, because we have the most "radical" proclamations (Jesus being the son of God, dying for our sins and then resurrecting, etc.). And also because they sort of "fear" us (I'm not sure how to word this correctly, though, forgive me). Maybe that's why they challenge us so often.
@Jan_Nices@xanga -
Based on what I think you're trying in your second comment ("self-central") to say it might work better to say something along the lines of "human nature has a tendency for egocentrism to some degree or another."
I still disagree with the idea of attaching this view of individuality and a tendency to reject authority as part of our basic human nature. Ideas of individual freedom and the like were certainly not common topics, in the way we view the issues, thousands of years ago, or even just hundreds of years. If these concepts were a part of our human nature, surely it wouldn't have taken till the Enlightenment for these ideas to get fleshed out.
Consider psychology too. There have been case studies on how readily people follow authority. The counter-arguement to this is that following authority would be more of a learned behavior.
Edit: One last way to i'll provide that you can look at this (with a more specific emphasis if it is part of human nature to reject a supernatural/higher being authority figure): Consider history and religion. The vast majority of cultures throughout history have established religions or a set of beliefs in a higher power or powers. Speaking in terms of a supernatural authority figure, it seems like it is actually more in human nature for man to establish one and follow it, than reject one exists.
Sometimes you need to read between the lines. People who go off on the "attack mode" might be doing so because they have been hurt deeply and they use that avenue to lash out their frustration.
Often non-Christians get hurt and dissappointed by hypocritical Christians whose beliefs don't match their actions... and for this they lash out their frustration at Christianity in general.
One Word: TROLLS
People go to Christian sites to do two things: Bash Christ, and Make Christians Lose their Cool.
And really, they go to Christian Sites and post what they post for the latter, mostly. We are the only Bible that these people will ever see, and if they can make a Christian lose his or her cool, then they've proven to themselves and their ilk that Jesus Christ must not be able. After all, when a Trollish Atheist (or Atheistic Troll) comes to a Christian Site, and starts his or her thing, if the Christian gets upset, then they can retort, "Didn't Jesus say to turn the other cheek?" But all the while, the Christian is losing his or her cool, saying wretchedly hateful things in return, and showing ourselves somethign other than truly being led by Jesus Christ.
In short, we Christians need to do a better job of showing Christ's love and Christ's patience to these who come and start to bash, attack, slather, and spew hatred. After all, if they weren't seekng -- truly seeking -- in the first place, they'd never come at all.
One of Christians' jobs is to bear fruit and make disciples. Christians fight better than their best to preach Christ. One person could never see the beauty of the truths if God won't open his/her eyes; there's no other way.
Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
On the other hand, people on the outside must do their part too and that is no other than doing every possible way to go in; to continually search and never stop until he/she has found the true church where the complete and correct doctrine of Christ is preached. AND THAT IS WHERE THE BATTLES BEGIN. FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Why is a big deal? Are Christians suppose to segregate themselves? And defend yourself if you feel your beliefs are being attacked. But just remember...don't argue with a fool...because those watching won't be able to tell WHICH is the fool.
That goes for believers and non-believers alike...not all that claim Christianity are Christians..
@JandJinJapan@xanga -
"After all, if they weren't seekng -- truly seeking -- in the first place, they'd never come at all."
So I suppose in your opinion since ChrisRusso went to atheist boards he was seeking -- truly seeking -- an atheist belief?
People need to stop with these types of answers, they don't hold a place in reality.
whataboutbahb@xanga, first of all, I only have yur word for it that ChrisRusso went to an Atheistic board. Secondly, it depends on why ChrisRusso went there: Did he go to engage in meaningful discussion and spread the Gospel amongst them, or did he go there ot bash atheists, make them angry, and cause them to react in one way or another??? VERY few atheists that I've encountered are interested in meaningful discussion on Christian Boards, but instead smear, attack, assault, and basically make their presence odious to everyone on the board (usually resulting in them being banned in one way or another). And the answer I gave may not hold place in your reality, but in the real world, it does okay.