At the risk of being attacked here - it comes down to whether or not you believe in the biblical truth of election and reprobation.  I believe Scripture teaches that God has chosen for Himself a certain number of "elect" people whom He sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for.  These people God brings to faith through the work of the Holy Spirit.  They will repent and live for Him - doing good works in His Name, precisely because they have been set free from sin and bondage to it.   The gift of salvation is FREE - it is not based on ANY good work you do either before you receive Christ as your Saviour or after you receive Christ as your Saviour.  If it was dependent on ME persevering till the end, I'd be doomed.    For all man has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  The danger with believing you can lose your salvation, is that in order to keep it, you must do good works!  And then salvation becomes work based, not grace based.  Once you have received Christ, confessed your sins and confessed His Name - TRULY - then you are saved.  You ARE justified before God through Christ.   A true believer won't fall away because Christ won't let "one of His go".   Yes, a true believer can and will stumble and fall, but never far enough that God can't reach him.     I am thankful for these truths because I can live in the assurance that if I die today in a car accident, even with sin unconfessed from today's activities - known or not known - I KNOW that Jesus died for me and that I am His.  Praise God from whom all blessings flow!

(yes, I'm a Calvinist.  In order to truly understand the sciptures that speak of assurance of salvation, as well as the verses spoken of above by those who do believe you can lose your salvation - I have read and studied many theologians who subscribe to TULIP .......... if you want to try and understand where I get myfull assurance from,  read about that)

I've always thought, "What can wash away the blood of Jesus?"

Salvation is not about not sinning because the Bible clearly states that even Christians sin. Salvation is about BELIEVING. You can't "unbelieve" so how could you lose your salvation?

I wouldn't want to live wondering as if one day I was going to lose something I'd been promised even if that kept me in line, so to speak. We should strive not to sin against our Holy Father because we know of His great love for us, not because we're trying to live up to some unattainable standard.

salvation is a convenant relationship.  We have to be taking part in the covenant for us to be a part of that covenant that God is always extending towards us.

@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - Actually and contextually Jesus is saying prove your love by your obedience.  It was Jesus who went on to say (paraphrasing of course) that many would come to Him and say Lord, Lord, have I not cast out demons in your name and done many wondrous works and He will say to them Depart from me, ye who work iniquity for I never knew you (Matthew 7:22-23).  All of these, including the scriptures you referred to show that our love is shown by our submission to and obedience to the will of God.  It is when we have submitted to His will that we can have the hope of Heaven and the forgiveness of sins.  And it is when we are submitting to His will that we then walk in the light and have forgiveness, even after we have obeyed the Gospel.

@Traci_Ladd@xanga - Even the devils "believe and tremble."  It takes more than just a belief to come into contact with the blood of Christ.  And to remain in contact with the blood...we have to remain in Christ.  God will never forsake us...but we can forsake him.  To say we can't is omitting the passages referring to such.

@oeshpdog2@xanga - In the context of John 13-17, Jesus is saying (among similar things) "Abide in me... I am the vine, you are the branches... Apart from me, you can do nothing.... I no longer call you servants, but friends."  How you get "prove your love by obeying" from that context, I'm honestly not sure.  That's not what He said.

This is also how Paul argues throughout Galatians and Colossians: We are saved by faith, not works-- consequently the Christian life is based on faith, not works.  "As you received Christ Jesus the Lord [i.e. by faith], so walk in Him."  (Col. 2:6)

As for the rest-- well of course if someone never trusts Him in the first place, they won't be saved at the end!

Taken from equipthesaints.com

Matthew 24:45-51, Jesus speaks of a person that was the servant of a particular Master, who began to say to himself, “my Master delays in His coming”, and backslides. Jesus says that “his Master” will come back, cut him in two, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites.

In Mark 4:16-17, but more specifically in Luke 8:13 Jesus speaks about the heart that is the shallow ground, believing and receiving the Word of God for a season, who “believe for awhile and… fall away.”

In John 15:6, Jesus warns that “if anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered, and they gather them into the fire and they are burned”.

Romans 11:22 describes both the “goodness and the severity of God”, in the context that those who do not continue in belief will be “cut off” as unbelieving Israel was.

In Colossians 1:22,23 Paul speaks about believers who will be presented holy before the Father “if you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard…”

In Hebrews 3:14, the author writes about how we will be saved in JC if we hold fast our confidence until the end.

In Hebrews 6:4-6, the author writes about those that had “been enlightened, tasted the Heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the age to come” and yet “fall away”. In that passage I see the best description of salvation given in the entire Bible, and yet also a description of one that hardens his heart and walks away from Jesus altogether.

James 5:19-20 talks about a brother who wanders from the truth, and says that if he is turned back his soul has been spared from death. This speaks of the possibility of being renewed again to repentance, but also the reality that if he does not, his soul would perish (see Ezekiel 18, especially verses 4 and 21-28).

In 2 Peter 2:20, Peter writes about believers who had “escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” but are “again entangled in them and overcome”, and how “the latter end is worse for them than the beginning”.

Jude 12 describes those that are “twice dead”. That speaks about those that were dead, were made alive in Christ, and then became dead again.

In Revelation 3:14-22, John writes of those who had been believers, but who had grown lukewarm, and how Jesus warns “I will vomit you out of My mouth”.

I hope that you’re not asking this question for yourself. If you are, and you’re worried about whether you’ve lost your salvation, you probably haven’t. Jesus said that there is only one sin that can’t be forgiven, and that’s the rejection of the drawing work of His Holy Spirit. If you’re feeling remorseful over sin, and wanting to be united with Jesus, nothing can keep you apart from Him and His saving grace.

If you’re asking this question because you’re observing the life of someone else, always remember that it’s not our place to judge another person – nor could we possibly. Only God knows where a person is really at with Him. All we can do is pray, love them, and let God do the judging. His judgments are perfect, right, and true, according to the secrets of a person’s heart.

@oeshpdog2@xanga - Since this exchange began when you asked me to provide scriptural justification for my assertions, I suppose I could issue you the same challenge.  But I'll save you the time, since I know the context of John 13-17 very well, and there is nothing in it remotely like what you're saying.  "You prove your love?  You remain by doing?"  What kind of grace is that? 

In this passage, Jesus plainly says, "Apart from me, you can do nothing."  (John 15:5)  What nonsense that would be if we had to do something apart from Jesus in order to keep from being apart from Jesus!  If however it is as Jesus says, that He is responsible for our ability to do good works, then our salvation and sanctification cannot possibly depend on our good works-- we haven't got any of our own! This fits perfectly with James 2:14-- true faith results in Christ doing good works through us as we abide in Him.  The works are the result, not the cause, of abiding in Christ. (It really does all fit when you see it in context! )

Of course we do still sin and need to be forgiven, but that only demonstrates that we are still God's works in progress. Just because I might lose my hold on Jesus, it does not follow that Jesus might lose His hold on me!

I encourage you to study the book of Galatians sometime, as Paul wrote it to discuss a very similar teaching to the one you're putting forth.  He says, "...if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." (Gal. 2:21) In other words, if I could "remain by doing" enough works to "prove my love" to God on my own, then what's the deal with God needing to send Jesus to save me by grace?  Paul rightly presents salvation as the work of God, which we receive through the Holy Spirit only by "hearing with faith" (Gal. 3:2).  Then he asks a splendid rhetorical question, which I put to you: "Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:3)

@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - I wanted to comment that you are doing a beautiful job of defending justification and sanctification.

I find it quite simple actually.  Jesus Christ saves us by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.   There is no other way we can attain eternal life.   We can't DO anything - not even "abiding" in Jesus on our own.  The only reason - let me repeat this - the only reason ANY Christian can abide in Jesus is because the holy Spirit - sent by the Father - CAUSES us to abide in Him. The only reason ANY Christian can actually prove their love to Christ - is through the sanctifying work of Jesus and the Spirit.     Our works - good or not - have absolutely NOTHING to do with our salvation - therefore have absolutely NOTHING to do with our assurance of heaven.    Our good works are only a RESULT of the faith Christ has given, and because we are grateful for the saving grace, we want (through the Spirit)to live a life of obedience for Him because of what He did on the Cross.   Again, our good works - obedience etc - is a FRUIT of the saving faith Jesus gives us.    There ain't NOTHING we can do that will stand before God on the final day of judgment, because even our best works - our best obedience will NEVER BE GOOD ENOUGH.  There's no one on earth who can stand before Jesus Christ our Judge and say "thanks Lord for dying on the cross for me - and just so you know, I remained true to you by living obediently.  What I did - is it good enough to get into heaven?"    The ONLY thing that is good enough to get anyone into heaven is the blood of the sacrifical lamb ......... and yes, our works DO matter because it does show whether or not we actually trusted in Jesus Christ - genuine faith that is.   But only Christ can judge that (rewards in heaven etc) - and those good works will not be the thing that makes you justified enough - righteous enough - to see heaven.

At this point in my life, I believe that yes, you can. God will NEVER leave you or let go of you, but you can choose to leave him. 

@TheBereanLife - I always lke it when someone quotes scripture to support their statement.

If your question was directed to me?, then no, I was not asking for myself. The question was meant to stimulate discussion, which I am glad to say it is!

You know what I've never understood?

I've never understood how forcefully some people want to prove that the children whom God loves and for whom He sent His Son to die to atone for their sins--that these children are not actually secure in their salvation and God will, in fact, be willing and content to let them slip out of His hands and let them go to Hell without stopping them at all.

You know that proving that we can choose to forfeit our salvation is the same thing as proving that our free will is greater than God's love?

If God says He will never lose any of us, but we're allowed to walk out on Him and leave Him, what does that say about God's ability to fulfill His own promises or to even love with any real power?

@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - I always enjoy a good debate with the other side ignores scriptures given and then simply replies with other scripture taken completely out of context.  Paul's letters to Galatia were addressing two groups of Christians within the churches throughout Galatia; converted Jews and Gentiles.  There were Jews who were still teaching adherence to the "law."  The "law" being referred to throughout the letter was the Old Law or the Old Testament.  They wanted the new converted Gentile Christians to still adhere to certain aspects of the old law.  Paul was instilling in these new Christians that there were freed from the old law which could never save someone from their sins.  It was in this same letter that Paul addressed the fruits of the spirit if you recall.  Those fruits are produced in Christians after their obedience to the Gospel.  It contrasts that with the works of the flesh and then, again if you recall, Paul made sure that these Christians knew that if they sow to the flesh, they will reap accordingly.  In fact...maybe you should go back and read the whole letter and not just pick out verses out of context and use them to support something not supported by the Word of God.  If you read all of chapter 6, you cannot deny the truth taught in verses 1-9.  In fact...verse 9 tells us that we can give up.  Give up on what???  Why would Paul, through inspiration, warn Christians time and time again about not giving up and continuing to fight the fight and endure the temptations of sin and on and on if we do not have to ever worry about falling from grace?

I gave verses from the Gospels and from the Letters showing why we can fall from grace and ask that anyone who wants to discuss truth, do so with the truth, not with a feeling or an idea.  The great apostasy that Paul and Peter warned the churches about came through men who had their own ideas of how things should be and they turned from "sound doctrine."  Those same false teachers led "Christians" astray which shows we can still fall into temptation and stray away from God and the safety of His Church.