Guest post by lidaforeverI feel that sometimes Christians and scientists feel antagonistic towards one another. Many times, Christianity and science work perfectly in sync. For example, scientists approach the world expecting it to work in an orderly way that can be studied... but where does this expectation come from? There is a God of order; therefore, His creations can be expected to be orderly, lending itself to be studied and better understood. Everything in nature works in such a perfect and intricate way – but not only that, there is an essence of life and cognitive thought and soul that cannot have arisen from a chance sequence of proteins, no matter how much time is given for this to have evolved.
Christians should not be afraid of science. In fact, Dr. Frances Collins, Director of the Human Genome project, argues that Christians make the best scientists because with the desire to better understand God, they are driven to explore and better understand this world. Here is
an interview with Dr. Collins. One of my favorite people in history is Einstein, who is a perfect example of this. The same for me; studying science has never shaken my faith; everything I learn better reveals God to me.
Why should theology and natural science be expected to agree fully when each by itself has plenty of loose ends? The problems and apparent contradictions do not exist between nature and the Bible, but between our understandings of these two very different revelations of God... both bodies of revelation speak for themselves.
We should not fall into the trap of thinking that somehow Scripture is more reliable or trustworthy if it is at every point backed up by scientific evidence, nor should we somehow suspect that Scripture may be untrustworthy if science does not back it up at every point. – Davis A. Young,
Christianity and the Age of the EarthDo you think that Christianity and science are at odds?
Comments (93)
Oh boy. I can tell this thread is going to turn ugly... *ducks for cover*
Many bishops and scientists alike feel the two go hand in hand.
The more I study science, especially physics and astrophysics, the more I believe in God. As a future astrophysics major, this is something I think about all the time.
I personally think there's a scientific explanation for everything. But the reason for our explanation... why that explanation is the correct one... that's all God's work. He made it so beautiful. We can make equations for days, but those equations work because of God.
Does that sound lame, or do I make sense?
No, I don't think science & Christianity is inherently at odds. Otherwise I would be in trouble, being both a scientist and someone of Christian persuasion!
Oh, and I feel that way because, well, after staring at pictures of space and learning their laws behaviors... how can that not be God's work? It's so beautiful, well-made, simple... it can't be an accident.
Christianity and science walk hand in hand.
I actually have a post on this!
Science: Evolutionism, Intelligent Design, and Creationism
Hrmmm, I don't think the two have to be at odds with each other necessarily. If someone chooses to interpret the bible as completely literal and inerrant, I think some problems/differences will start popping up though.
"One of my favorite people in history is Einstein, who is a perfect example of this. "
Not sure if you can really classify Einstein as a christian...he spoke against the idea of a personal God and labeled the Bible as "a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish." If anything he was closest to either a pantheist or an agnostic (or merely just switched from the former to the latter).
I think some basic things that make it harder to incorporate science into a spiritual worldview can be removed. By learning the roles they play, and how they over-lap, Christianity and science can be basically compatible. I think, though, that science must be informed by spiritual presuppositions for it to be compatible. Metaphysical naturalists will see the work of science completely differently. Observations made from their viewpoint would demand naturalistic explanations, which may be, in a sense, "scientific", but not at all compatible with Christianity.
I think that anyone who believes that science doesn't leave room for religion has a shallow understanding of science and anyone who believes that religion doesn't leave room for science has a shallow understanding of religion.
In my life I like to think that they complete each other.
@whataboutbahb@xanga - Einstein was born to a Jewish family but had this to say of the Jewish people and religion:
"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the
most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly
belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no
different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience
goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are
protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot
see anything 'chosen' about them."
I feel that he would not have been a Christian, either.
As for science, I cannot violate it for my love for reason and intelligent thought would simply curl up and die. Therefore, it must compliment the religion I hold so dear.
I think that science, in the sense of better understanding our world is wonderful! (Not for me, though...I'm too artistically minded to get into science) but I don't like it when science tries to explain God. God transcends anything we could ever hope to understand.
Yeah, I don't understand how learning about the universe God created in any way contradicts the fact that God made it.
@Axis_of_Doom@xanga - I hope you're wrong...does that make me naive?
Nature and God Never contradict each other.
Science is the human institution that attempts to explain/understand nature
Theology is the human institution that attempts to explain/understand God
Given that Science and Theology are both human things, and therefore fallible, they will sometimes--arguably often--contradict each other. However, that does not mean they are incompatible because both are works in progress. If, hypothetically, they both were to obtain the entirety of absolute knowledge and truth relative to their field of study, they would be perfectly in sync, but until then (i.e. the second coming of Christ) there will be idiosyncrasies between the two.
@Axis_of_Doom@xanga - Eh, you are the harbinger of doom Mr.
I sincerely hope that science and Christianity can find some common ground. I try my hardest to understand religion and I hope that all people of all faiths can put aside the literal interpretations and fire and brimstone to glimpse into the world of science.
No, they are not at odds with each other because science has no concern with Christianity. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about certain sects of Christians (especially YECs) who feel science is somehow a threat, stepping on God's toes and need to wage some kind of intellectual or political war against science (usually in the classroom). Some people feel the need to stand up against this, some scientists and many not. Nevertheless, there is nothing about science that is at odds with Christianity. Some might even say there is nothing about Christianity that is at odds with science, but since science discovers things about the world, and the good Book supposedly will say how things "really" are, then Christianity is, in fact, at odds with science, inasmuch as people take the canon to be factual and giving truths or knowledge (i.e., those who do not take that stance are not at odds). Since science justifies its claims to knowledge by the very methods that give it such a label, the ball is really in the Christian's corner to answer their bizarre claims that come at odds with what we should all say we know (e.g., the Earth is only a few thousand years old).
To recapitulate, there is nothing about science that is problematic with any religion because science is about an approach and perspective to analyzing the world. Inasmuch as those religions do not attempt to supersede this method with their blunt truths (where they step on the toes of science without any justification other than "I say so."), then there is no "at odds." The problem comes in from the Christians, and usually for political and intellectual reasons. Often about trying to see who belongs in the school. Outside of that narrow spectrum, there usually is nothing to be said.
The one-sentence summary: Those ignorant Christians (not suggesting the size of this population) that are at odds with science are the only issue of antagonism because the "intellectual responsibility ball" is always in the religious' corner due to the fact it is the religion which needs to justify anything they assert contrary to what science has already attempted to prove true (and thus comes as tentatively justified).
The only conflict between science and religion arises from scientists having a weak understanding of the Bible, and Christians having a weak understanding of science. There are some great books out there--Collins' book, some books by MIT trained Gerald Schroeder (Science of God and Hidden Face of God), Ian Barbour is another good author. I'm reading Science of God now, and it is going through what Schroeder believes is the science behind Genesis. Kinda interesting.
Not necessarily. They are two completely different ways of looking at things. As long as Christians don't try to overtake science and bend it to what they take on faith, no problem.
As to those Christians who would pick and choose which science to follow (or say that science should take a backseat to the Word, or disparage science as a means of knowledge), I only have one thing to say:
Give up medicine, electricity, mechanically produced goods, any foods outside of walking distance, television, phones, machine-printed books (even bibles!), and contraception, even NFP. Give up the government, your career, your child's education, your clothes, and your interaction with people in modern society. Then tell me about how horrible science is, and show me the "miracles" that God will suddenly magik all of these things unto you.
I think the only time that God and Science may have a "riff" is when you learn about evolution. I remember in high school when my friends and I were having to memorize all that stuff and we would always say "this never allows me to doubt God. This makes me believe in Him even more"
@walkintotheseaaa@xanga - It's perfectly not an accident. It's the natural consequence of infinite possibility.
@anaraug@xanga - You haven't seen some religions! Generally, though, well put.
Do you think that Christianity and science are at odds?
Yes-- Christainity and Science are necessarily at odds.
Christianity, it's theology and history, are taken in a package deal. Everything of the Old Testament and New Testament, in Christianity, is taken to be true.
The Bible provides a narration and a particular timeline for natural history and the history of the cosmos. Natural science and cosmology gives us a story very different from that delineated in the Bible.
The clearest point of conflict is Evolution. Evolution is true. The evidence tells us that life just didn't pop into existance in six days.
@sheepthatsblack@xanga - ...Science is the human institution that attempts to explain/understand nature... Given that Science and Theology are both human things, and therefore fallible, they will sometimes--arguably often--contradict each other. ...
If what you say is true, then core tenents of each field of science-- Chemistry, Physics, and Biology-- would periodically fail. The products of science like cellular phones, antibiotics, MIR imaging would not work.
We don't see that.
Science, in fact, is very consistent. Yes, the cutting edge of science is still being improved and still being worked ont. There is such a high standard and so much scrutiny that the time-tested science is pretty damn correct.
Science isn't the dreamy guess-work you characterize it as. There is real evidence behind it. For every idea in science, there are conuntless studies, experimentation, and re-confirmations.
@huginn@xanga - Your answer proves what many here have already said. Those who think the two are naturally at odds have a lack of understanding of one or the other. You have a lack of understanding of Scripture. Only certain fundamentalists take the story of creation as meaning literal six, 24 hour days and they are wrong to do so. For one, God transcends time and space so trying to count his work in days and hours is illogical. Two, you need to put Scriptures in the context of the time and place they were written.
"For in these days [of creation] the morning and
Theevening are counted until, on the sixth day, all things which God then
made were finished, and on the seventh the rest of God was mysteriously
and sublimely signalized. What kind of days these were is extremely difficult
or perhaps impossible for us to conceive, and how much more to say!" (St. Augustine,
City of God
).
@huginn@xanga - that's assuming you read the first 11 or so chapter of Genesis literally. Suppose you were, as many Christians do, to read said chapters as metaphorical. Does Christianity still contradict science? Does that necessarily contradict Christianity/Judaism?
@huginn@xanga - absolutely there is solid evidence. it wouldn't be science if it didn't. However, many of details are still fuzzy. For example. We know that Alcohol has neuropsychological effects very similar to those of barbiturates, however, there is no conclusive evidence that it acts directly on GABAa receptors. There are many theories (some more convincing than others) about how it works, such as receptors on nearby astrocytes that inhibit metabolizing enzymes, but we don't know the exact details.
In biology, we know that proteins are synthesized by mRNA, ribosomes, amino acids, etc. But the exact mechanisms of how everything comes together is fuzzy at best.
In chemistry, we know that certain chemicals act as catalysts for various reactions, but we don't necessarily know why, or in the cases we do, we don't know the why behind the why.
I could continue, but I digress.
And just because something is tested and retested, doesn't mean there aren't contradictions within the studies. Studies, especially in the field of psychology (including psychopharmacology), of which I am most familiar, contradict each other all the time.
Science has holes in it. Theories are revised with almost every peer-reviewed journal that comes out. Science is dynamic, just look at the evolution of the atomic theory. It's also subject to human errors in perception and human errors in execution (most of those errors are resolved by repetition, but that doesn't mean some of them don't seep into the maintstream). Science is not the "dreamy guess-work" you suppose I believe it
to be, but nor is it the end-all be-all of absolute truth that I
percieve you to believe it is. (Please, correct me if that assumption
is wrong.)
The question isn't whether science and Christianity are at odds - it's more whether Christianity and current scientific consensus are at odds. I think that for the most part, the answer is no, but it is obviously in a few issues (obviously evolution).
Christians tend to blame bad science for the conflict, but sometimes the real blame goes to bad biblical understanding. I believe in Creation, but I'm not sold on the idea that Creation is literal 24 hour days. The few chapters in Genesis are poetic. It's not that they're inaccurate, it's just that they weren't intended to be read as science. So many "new earth" scientists take that literally, and I'm not sure that was ever the intent.
We don't listen to a song that talks about the "sunrise" and think that the author doesn't understand that the earth actually revolves around the sun. We realize that the songwriter probably fully realizes that truth, but isn't trying to write a science book, and instead is being poetic. In the same way, it's not that scripture is wrong or inaccurate, it's that it wasn't intended to be read as science book.