@jmallory@xanga - I was going to say exactly what jmallory said, only they said it better, so, in that case, I concur with them! :)

@jmallory@xanga - do you believe that cloning and alternative ways of reproduction are a pathway for us to be more like God?

@gwacemom@momaroo - The other problem with that theory is that it is not the aborted babies who are being used as embryos.  They are paying women to be hyper-ovulated, a like double max dose of infertility stuff, so that they will release 20-30 eggs at a time.  This procedure itself is risky for women.  But scientists aren't interested in one embryo at a time, like from aborted babies - that would be WAY too costly and time consuming.  

@mrpine - I am 110% behind you

@gwacemom@momaroo - But why should that life end just so another can thrive?  What is the logic behind it?  I do not think we should use people as means to an end.  What this means is that we would be killing and taking the cells to save another; how is the patient in need more deserving of the parts, does he/she have the potential to love their family more? are they smarter?  could they enjoy life more?

I also think it would be wrong to kill a baby for the sole purpose of their cells.  It is simply wrong to kill to save another life.  And what about the sanctity of life?  The idea the a human life is precious reguardless of race, sex, ethnicity, disability, whatEVER, is at the core of western beliefs. 

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - true, but if it is their time they will die anyways, we can not decide this; God is way to complex for us to grasp this idea.

I think it is playing God! God is the Master Creator. Humans sometimes have no regards or reverence for God (at all). If they can clone humans, they can also fine a way to make umbilical cord stem cells of a better quality... don't you think? My fear is that one day they will create something we will all regret existed if they keep trying to play

@QuelynnInc@xanga - I argee

@nicolevw@xanga - 

" Now if it was a life
or death situation, and it was choosing mom over baby, I'm sure that I
would choose for mom - but not because the baby is less human or less
worthy."

but why?  abortion is one of those areas where it has to be black and white for legal reasons.  if you want to guarantee a fetus the right to life, it has to be just as unalienable, otherwise what's the point?  what suddenly reduces the fetus to nothing when the mother is in jeopardy?  and why couldn't that standard be carried over to any other situation in which two separate lives are at stake?

"But if
said person chooses a transplantation knowing the risks, he's only
endangering his own life, and not someone else's as well."

depends on how you look at it.  person A receiving an organ means that person B won't... and that could very well be a death sentence.  my siblings and i have been explicitly told by our parents to not donate any organs to them, should they need a transplant.. no matter what their chances are.  and i can see why.  how would i feel if a future child of mine needed a kidney, but i had already donated one to my mother... who was, unfortunately, dead by this time anyway?  who deserves to have more years tacked onto a life: a 60-year-old woman or a 2-year-old child?  who should be the one to make that call... the government? the doctor? me? 

"I
have lost several family members to Alzheimers - and they wouldn't WANT
to be cured of their disease knowing that embryos died (cloned or
otherwise) so they could live."

*shrug* that's your particular situation.  my family feels different.   your family has the right to choose whether or not to accept such treatment as it develops.  you don't have the right to refuse it on behalf of mine. 

  "And besides,  proponents of embryonic
stem cell research seem to be blind to the fact that adult stem cell
research (which doesn't involve death or cloning) is very promising
with lots of research and studies. "

that's mostly irrelevant, especially since research has only been going on for a short amount of time.  i think that, at this stage, we should remain open to all forms of stem cell research until we reach our goal.  my issue has more to do with being so close-minded that we would stop research before it's even really started.  it is unfair to those with diseases for us to limit ourselves in such a way.  they deserve every moment of research and testing we can give them.

I think the cultivation of embryos and the harvesting of their stem cells are totally okay.

I just skimmed through most of the comments on here and these were some of the arguments I found against this whole cloning and using the stem cells to treat diseases.

1. Life is created by God and by creating life we are going against God's will.

2. God ultimately decides who is born, who lives, who dies, etc.

3. Adult stem cells are just as good as embryonic stem cells.

4. It’s unethical for us to use one's life to save another's.

I read in one of the comments and it stated that "we are called to 'save' life ... we are respecting the fact that this [the cloned embryo] is a human being, created by God for much potential."

1. The embryo was not created by God, it was created by human.
2. The embryo was not meant to even exist.

Therefore, the embryo in this case, I would consider the same as the tomato that is growing in my backyard. Yeah, that may sound pretty harsh, but just think about it... the embryo was made by humans meant for treatment of diseases. Not by God. And if it were created by God, God would’ve placed the embryo inside a mother’s womb instead of a test tube.

I agree with the fact that God decides who lives and dies. Let’s take a look at a scenario. A scientist clones embryos to use its stem cells in hopes of curing a person who has cancer. People against this procedure will say that it’s against God’s will. However, they fail to see the big picture. The man that has cancer is cured. Maybe… God meant for the person with cancer to live and the embryo to die. After all, the cloned embryo was never on God’s “to do/make/create” list – the scientist created it. Besides, we’re too naïve to ever grasp and understand the “will of God.” Am I not right?

Now, ethical issues. There isn't anything wrong about this. A clone is a clone. The "real" person, who was created by God, is probably in Safeway buying groceries for his dinner. Okay... let them grow up. I think that's more of an ethical problem than using the embryo for the treatment of diseases.

Why not just take the whole idea of cloning and toss out the window? Because embryonic stem cells are better than adult stem cells. Too lazy to explain but to put it into simple words, embryonic stem cells are more flexible and can be used in many areas (pluripotent). Although the transplant of these donor cells into recipients may conflict with the immune system, further research can probably solve this problem. This goes for the transplant of adult stem cells as well. That's probably the only downside of the use of embryonic stem cells.

@CanadianBroad@xanga - read on further.  You would have seen my comment that specifically spoke about our responsibility in preserving life as much as we can.    If we have the means to make someone well within reasonable limits, we can use that!    We wouldn't be respecting life if we stood by and did nothing.      This is completely different than cloning an embryo for the sake of harvesting stem cells and destroying that embryo.  THAT is no respect for life.   Besides, as a Christian, I believe that if God wants to take someone Home, nothing we do will keep that soul on earth.    "playing God" is such a relative phrase - don't you think?    I don't believe for a moment that doing CPR on a drowning victim (for instance) is playing God, but I do believe that cloning another human life goes beyond what we are called to do on this earth.

These are my beliefs.   You and others may not agree with my views - but you have to respect them, just like you demand respect for your views.    Conversations on Revelife should respect that and comments like yours don't show that you respect my beliefs at all.

@gwacemom@momaroo - I know what you were asking, but I dont think Chistians should have the line of thinking: well, theyre going to die anyway.  Perhaps by educating others we could change abortion laws.

@nicolevw@xanga - I totally understand your position on this. And I agree, an ambryo is alive. And I respect that very fact. Remind me though, why was it made by humans? Was it not because it was capable of curing diseases? I'm sure scientists did not make this whole process of cloning to create adult individuals, but instead to use their stems cells to save the lives of otherwise hopeless patients with terminal illnesses. That's its purpose in life - to cure diseases. These cloned embryos have a purpose to their existence, like you and I. Also, I refuse to accept the fact that scientists are simply killing or destorying the embryo. Yes they are killing them but at the same time utilizing them, just like livestock. Yeah... just like livestock. Poor pigs... But again, their purpose in life was to fill our bellies. 

Now, you said that God would not allow such thing. I'm a bit puzzled by that statement. God, in fact, does allow such thing. A prime example would Jesus Christ himself. God "allowed" Christ to die. For what? Not for kicks and giggles. But He allowed Christ to give up His life for our sins. Ask yourself this, what was Christ's purpose? Why did He come down in human form? To save us from our sin. How did He accomplish that? Through his death. So in essence, His very death saved us. If that's not persuasive enough, think about the Anti-Christ. Who is he? A person, yes. Like you and I? I suppose. But one very important thing has been stripped from him. The choice of salvation, the choice to eternal life or death. The Anti-Christ is bound to hell. He doesn't have the choice to be saved or not. But all this is part of God's plan. Also... think of the martyrs. Most people will say, "No, they died for their faith." Ehh, actually... they died, yes. But didn't God allow them to die? I mean, ultimately God is the one that's letting them die. But again, He used their deaths to boost the morale of other Christians. To strenghten their faith.

Maybe, just maybe, this is the same for the cloned embryos. God's plan might be for scientists to create embryos and utilize them to save people with uncurable diseases. Also, I can't help but to stress the fact that these embryos, though they may be alive, have only one purpose to their existence which is to cure diseases.