by mrs lilyI sort of half joke that I do not like church, but no one seems to take me seriously. Of course I can’t be serious, right? I mean, if you’re a Christian, you go to church, right? Usually the response I get is something along the lines of “do not forsake the assembling of ourselves together”…because everyone knows this Scripture means: “Do not stop going to a church service every Sunday morning”...
The truth is that most of my life I have not enjoyed going nor have I felt comfortable in church. There, I said it. Yet for various reasons, I have always gone, and perhaps I always will. I am in no way trying to discount the importance of the church as we know it today, nor do I discourage anyone from going to "church".
I am not one to nitpick the church and everything that has gone wrong over time; I do believe it is intended for good and despite it's flaws the Lord has been able to use it and move through it. We have been given a wonderful opportunity through the church as we know it to grow and meet corporately for prayer, praise and teaching. So it is not that I disagree with it entirely.
I just long for so much more.
I have heard it said that often when the gospel is presented to an indigenous group of people, and not laid out in a westernized system, these people will make the gospel their own, and it is beautiful and real, and rarely looks anything like we in America know church to look like. It makes me wonder why the church as we know it is the only way accepted by Christians in America, and what it could possibly look like if we didn't have the previous knowledge that we do of how to do a church service. But perhaps it is the fear that there will be no order, no solid time of meeting in America's busy lifestyle, or fear of getting off-base that we stick to what we know. But does that mean it is the best or only way?
For me personally, I know that the times I have grown the most in fellowship with other believers, been encouraged through the Word and felt the presence of the Lord, is often through a simple meal or a good conversation shared with other believers, or through praying with a friend, or even during the fellowship time before or after church. I'm not saying I haven't benefited from the church, but I know it is not where I have grown the most.
I still want to meet with other believers, I still want someone in my life teaching me and helping me grow, I still want the opportunity to pray and praise our Father corporately with other believers –
But does that really mean being a member of a specific church and going every Sunday?
Comments (117)
@musterion99@xanga - No shit, sherlock. Whatever gave you that idea?
as you know, your relationship with God is not limited by a specific church nor going to church on every Sunday. But still, going to church on a Sunday would be something a Christian do, you know.
@eclipse_the_dawn@xanga - You can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, or you can call me RayJay, but you doesn't have to call me Sherlock.
Monk
@musterion99@xanga - I actually DO NOT believe that joy and happiness are the same thing. To me, happiness is too dependent on our circumstances. Regardless of what crap that I'm going through though, I can still have joy.
@naphtali_deer@xanga - To me there is a distince difference between joy and happiness, though I'm not actually sure if that's based off of the denotation or the conotation that I have of the words.
@Pickwick12@xanga - I don't think that joy = happy.
@hubbaduh@xanga - I think happiness is more transitory. Would you mind telling what you see as the difference? To me, joy is a perfect sense of well-being and satisfaction in God. I think God wants us to have it. My earlier point was that I don't think it's God's best for us to be uncomfortable at church. I believe his best for us is perfect peace and joy, perfect well-being. That doesn't mean we're always in an extreme of happiness, but that we live in constant peace and satisfaction in Him.
I technically agree that there's a difference between joy and happiness, but I have a hard time separating them when I'm experiencing God's presence intensely. Feeling Him causes me to have joy, happiness, and pleasure in abundance. That's one reason I believe He's happy; it's because that's what I become when I'm feeling His presence the most strongly. He brings a perfect package of happiness, joy, peace, and overall well-being.
I don't think it makes sense to say that God wants us to be joyful but not happy. His joy brings me happiness. For me, neither happiness nor joy are contingent on outward circumstances. The way I see this may have to do with the fact that I'm in my own head a lot. I'm naturally more affected emotionally by what's going on inside than what's going on outside.
@Pickwick12@xanga - I'm not saying that God wants us to be UNHAPPY, but I don't see from anywhere in Scripture that our happiness is of GREAT concern to God. To me happiness is based on my circumstances, while joy is based on God and who He is. He never changes, so regardless of my circumstances, I can have joy. I'm not always happy though.
@hubbaduh@xanga - I think He wants us to be happy, because that's how He makes me feel when I'm experiencing His presence intensely. He overwhelms me with happiness! He bowls me over with it! It's intoxicating. I think I understand what the Bible means when it tells us not to get drunk on wine, but to be filled with the Holy Spirit instead. I can't wait for heaven, when intense communion with Him will be unending! I can't express the wonderful happiness of feeling Him close.
I'm not sure you and I understand joy exactly the same way, though I could be wrong. To me, joy is a sense of total rightness in God (regardless of circumstances). I have it the most when I'm the most constantly aware of God's presence. It's not just because I know what God is like, although that is certainly a reason for joy, but also because I know God Himself. Communing with Him and experiencing Him on a regular basis brings me joy.
I grew up Christian and I never liked church, either. Something always seemed off about it. I could never put my finger on what. I don't think the gathering of believers verse means you have to go to church every Sunday. I think it just means to meet with other Christians for the purpose of discussing spiritual issues.
@musterion99@xanga - Welp, I don't watch Monk.
sigh....
@eclipse_the_dawn@xanga - You don't know what you're missing. It's a great show. If you like Columbo, you would like Monk.
@musterion99@xanga - Never heard of Columbo, but then again, I have better things to do than watch pseudo-funny shows.
"LOL LET'S MAKE A SHOW ABOUT AN OCD DETECTIVE."
Fuck Hollywood.
@hubbaduh@xanga - I think it's semantics.
Regardless of what crap that I'm going through though, I can still have joy.
And happiness. No matter what I'm going through, I'm happy that Jesus died for my sins, and I'm happy that all my sins are forgiven, and I'm happy that God loves me. If you look up the word happy in Strongs concordance, it is used 26 times in the bible.
@musterion99@xanga - Good point.
@eclipse_the_dawn@xanga - I have better things to do than watch pseudo-funny shows.
Do you go to movies and ever see a comedy?
@Pickwick12@xanga - Amen.
@musterion99@xanga - Are you kidding? The crap they put out now can't be considered at all comedic. The only time I go to the movies is with my girlfriend, and that's rare enough with the complete shit that's in theaters lately. Not even Religulous looks good, but that's just because Bill Maher isn't funny. George Carlin or Sam Kinison should have made that while they were alive.
@musterion99@xanga - I think that we will simply have to "agree to disagree"
When I would go to church on a consistent basis, I remember 9/10 of the time not enjoying it. Why? Because I really don't think our current typical american model of church is very representative of what church was to early christians. Church seemed about learning for the early church, discussion of various ideas, discussion of issues that haven't already been decided to be 101% true as they are today. Now most sermons I've heard seem like simple cookie cutter sermons, that are disgustingly predictable, contain a positive message, but teach very little. How are christians suppose to learn when sermons seem to be recycled over and over again? Oh well, I'm sure there are churches out there that don't really fit into this category I was criticizing, but there are way too many that do. And don't even get me started on mega churches or 99% of church sermons broadcasted nationally.
@eclipse_the_dawn@xanga - We're probably in agreement. I don't watch any sitcoms on tv and I haven't been to a movie in over 2 years. Wow, we really got off topic from the post. we went from talking about church to watching tv.
@hubbaduh@xanga - That's fine but it's not very convincing in defending what you're saying.
@musterion99@xanga - That's how you know when a topic on revelife is boring. I fuck it up, someone replies, then there's no point in staying on topic because my ADHD brain found something much more interesting.
I would have to agree with the comments made that it shouldn't be about what you can get out of church, but rather, what you give to God in worship. I think that if someone is "unhappy" about being in Church - then they should do some serious soul searching about their identity in Christ. I cannot fathom the feeling of not wanting to go to church. I long for it each and every Sunday - and we have two worship services!! I hunger and thirst for it every week. For it's there that my soul is fed. The church I attend has a significant focus on preaching Christ. Half of the service is sermon! There's no entertainment, no drama, no big worship team, ------- that's not what would draw me to church anyways. I go because I know I'll be hearing a message about Christ from one of His Servants. I truly feel sorry for Christians who don't experience this. Like PickWick says -- the joy and pleasure of this communion with Christ is undescribable!!
Oh - and speaking of joy versus happiness, I do think it's largely semantics as someone else said. However, I do think there's a significant difference and I witnessed it in a large way two years ago. My sister and her husband gave birth to a stillborn baby girl. It was an incredibly SAD time - there was absolutely no happiness - no reason at all to be "happy", And yet, they found joy in the midst of sorrow. As a matter of fact, they named their daughter "M---- Joy". (name withheld for privacy). They both spoke of the joy they felt knowing that she was with Christ - indeed - as our pastor said, she'd been fast-tracked to where we all long to be ..........so they felt joy at this, but didn't know happiness at that time I can tell you!! So is there a difference? Yes, there is. A very special man I know just died - age 58, dropped dead of a heart attack while jogging ....left behind a wife, 7 sons and 1 daughter who are not happy. Yet, they have joy in Christ. So I guess joy is not dependent on circumstances, while happiness is.
delusional people! oh dear...
Surprisingly, this issue has been on my mind for some time. Especially with all the different Christian denominations nowadays (and sometimes quite hostile), I just feel 'less Christian' when I try to make myself fit into a certain 'clique'. God tells us to love our neighbours, yet there are even disagreements and hostility among His followers. I really want to see a united Church some day.