by mr palmAccording to
this recent Time article, several experts on the Prosperity Gospel believe that the movement led followers into the trap that has ensnared the American economy: buying a house that you can't afford.
The Prosperity Gospel preaches that God wants to bless his children with riches on earth. When mortgage loans were being approved nearly regardless of credit rating, followers may have seen it as God opening the door to their dream home. Perhaps the common thinking of "God will increase my wealth" led to people to purchase a home that was beyond their means.
As we sorely know, the American housing market collapsed, and many dreams have been shattered.
Do you think that the Prosperity Gospel influenced its followers to buy homes that they couldn't afford?
Comments (74)
"Do you think that the Prosperity Gospel influenced its followers to buy homes that they couldn't afford?"
Yes. It is a movement that disregards biblical teachings concerning contentment and foments greed in so-called Christians. This greed blinds these people to common-sense decision making and causes them to live beyond their means.
Did it (the Prosperity Gospel) cause the collapse of the American housing market? No. There are other greedy people out there that worked with them to make that happen.
1 Timothy 6:6
Why are we so quick to generalize and condemn those who are struggling with their mortgage/have lost their house? "Morons," "idiots," "should be committed" are all phrases used in these comments.
Most Americans are only a few paychecks away from financial crisis. I know a dear family who tried to be smart and responsible. They thought they understood their mortgage agreement, but there were some loopholes in it that led to a jump in mortgage payments. They had some savings, but were struggling with the economic times. Then the husband lost hisjob, and a kid got sick and went into the hospital. They lost their home. Think of what that entails! The shock, the grief, and also the humiliation by those so quick to judge...
Not all the people who have had mortage problems are faceless, evil, greedy humans. Money crises could happen to anyone. Responsibility is OF COURSE called for. We should try our best for good stewardship and faithfulness. But what about compassion for those who had a run of bad luck, made one bad decision, didn't know the right questions to ask? Where does that come into the Christian lifestyle?
@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - yes, but as i said, when i was a christian and would pray, it was like i was working the problem out in my head. it wasn't a divine being giving me the answer it was myself thinking on the subject long enough until the correct solution presented itself. apparently, when if when you pray and everything comes ture, you need to share that express lane ticket you have to god with the rest of us because i'm sure the people in new orleans were praying god wouldn't wipe out their city, and you were asking for whatever, he ignored them to help you.
I doubt that people who were "smart" enough to listen to Joel Olsteen would be "smart" enough to maintain a house in the first place.
"God will provide" spiritually, not monetarily! You can be blessed with wealth, but everything else to this idea of prosperity is ridiculous.
First of all, I do not believe in the prosperity gospel - at least not the way it has been interpreted by many.
Secondly, no, I do not think it is a direct result of this teaching, but rather our culture in general.
@dedwinhedon@xanga - If you're really interested, the ticket you asked for is explained very clearly here: The Prayer of Faith (by R. A. Torrey) Actually fairly simple, but often misunderstood.
It's not "I pray and everything comes true" as you put it, but that I ask God for something, and He decides whether to give it to me or not. I have seen very specific answers to prayer in the form of things I couldn't possibly have provided or worked out on my own, and also prayers that were answered "no" that I realized later would have been harmful to me if things had worked out differently. So it's up to God.
@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - It's like a lottery then. If god decides your prayer was god enough he picks it. if your prayer was for something selfish like, "please god, don't let this hurricane wipe out everything i have and make me homeless, even though the government that your book says you put in charge isn't going to do a thing for me." he said no because having a roof over their head and a means to survive would have harmed them somehow. god only knows.
For me, being in foreclosure was the result of my property taxes going up 300% in one year, the house being overpriced on the market for 3 years, then the bank being "90 days behind" in processing short sales. I just gave up and walked away.
I think that bad ideas have consequences. However, it is each individual's responsibility to not use defective teaching to appeal to their desire to have more.
@dedwinhedon@xanga - You would have a much stronger case if only the Bible actually said anywhere that those who pray will automatically be exempt from all adversity-- in other words, if Joel Osteen was right. He's not. The Bible teaches that not that God keeps us from adversity but that God helps us during adversity. God is not some pansy who thinks everything should be all rainbows and flowers; God allows hardships to happen to strengthen us.
Gosh, no wonder you abandoned your faith if that's the understanding you have of it! I can't blame you, but I do think it's time you learned what real Christianity is about, at very least so you don't waste your time attacking a "Straw God" that well-informed Christians don't believe in either.
Meanwhile, would you please give me $20?
What's that you say? It's up to you to decide whether or not I get the money? How terribly unfair of you.
I don't think it "caused" the economic crisis, but it most likely contributed. The prosperity gospel is a pretty narrow and mostly confused perspective of Christian doctrine, but because it sounds so wonderful, many have been influenced, even non-Christians, so I wouldn't be surprised if it spurred on the unwise purchases.
@Pass_the_Aura@xanga - thers a difference between a god who plenty cabale of helping and someone as myself who is currently unemployeed and doesn't have twenty dollars to pay his rent, let alone give to a complete stranger.
it is odd when i come across a christian whoa ctually reads the bible and can quote it, as not many of the people who profess themselves to be christians can.
i know that god doesn't always help in times of need, but the whole, he uses strife to make us stronger is bull to me. i went through five years of my life cutting myself up because i didn't feel as though i was doing a good enough job with anything i was given. everytime i asked god to just provide me with the joy that he says he gives to his followers, he apparently said no, at least that's what my pastors said.
now, instead of waking up every morning with a little thankful prayer that he got me out of bed, i waske up with a middle finger towards the sky asking why he let me live if he cares so much.
joy? you don't need joy. you can be my servant and be miserable that every morning you have to wake up and face the grim reality that there is no being who is helping and watching over you because he's too busy making sure someone else has a dollar twenty-five to catch a bus. i'm sure though that the scars i have on my arms, and will probably always have aren't as bad as te harm that would have come to me if he had given me the joy and hope i prayed for. afterall, he keeps things from us when he knows they will hurt us in the long run, right? so instead of the joy and the hope that i do have a savior that loves me and shows me he loves me on a daily basis, not just getting to read how he put himself in harms way to save me from damnation, he let me run a razor across my arm every day and was thinking, well, at least this will make him stronger in his walk with me. it did make me stronger in a way, as i will now use every mark on my body to keep people from wasting their lives on a book of cute stories and believing that they have a friend in the sky who can take care of them. he could protect me from the devil, but not myself then.
amen.
@I_SodeyJane_I@xanga - I agree. I'm currently working as an almost-attorney (pending the July bar results - God willing, I'll be a "real" one in November...) in Detroit, specializing in foreclosure work. While many people did get themselves into trouble because of greed or lack of wisdom, just as many others have been victims of predatory lenders, suffered from a lack of education about loan products, or have simply experienced unfortunate, unforeseeable circumstances. Even those trained in the area sometimes cannot understand all the complexities involved. Thanks for your reminder that, as Christians, we need to avoid the hurtful and unloving labels...
I believe that it is God's will for us to prosper in this life, however I also believe that he blesses us more abundantly when we act responsibly with whay he has already given us. (Parable of the talents, anyone? Matthew 25). So we need to be responsible with what God has given us.
Also, I beleive there are times when God may have a reason he needs us to not prosper for a season, whether to teach us something, or so that we can relate or even meet another who needs us during a si=milar time in their life.
The psalmist in Psalm 44 writes of a time when God had "forgotten" Israel, and let Israel fall into the hands of their captors EVEN THOUGH they hadn't broken the covenant had had done everything they were supposed to. Most of the time Israel had it coming, but not this time....Why? Only God knows, but he had his reasons! Does that mean he didn't want Israel to prosper, on the contrary. However, it is all in His timing, and there will inevitably be dry seasons in our life.
But again, God will bless us according to what he has already given us. So it's what we do in these dry times that God looks at.
@dedwinhedon@xanga - Sounds like you had some seriously rotten pastors. You have my sympathy (I've had some too). And I definitely hear you on Biblically illiterate Christians (educate yourselves already, people! You own the book!).
I've gone through depression myself and I know what it is like. I really genuinely feel for you. I could probably match you story for story about waking up and wondering why on earth I should go on. It's not an experience I would wish on anyone.
And yes, you may find this hard to believe, but I can honestly say I look back on it now and say I am a better person because of it, and that it would unequivocally not have been as good for me if God had taken me out of it immediately the first time I asked Him. (Or the second, third, fourth...) I know; I wouldn't have believed that myself if my future self had come back and told me while I was fighting through it all, but today I know it as truly as I know I exist. It was that horrible fight with depression that taught me compassion, love, forgiveness, even hope, and God knew I would not have truly learned that any other way.
Also, I hope this doesn't come across wrong, but if I may say so, I don't think you can blame God that you chose to hurt yourself. It was not God who held that razor.
God is not there to offer you a quick fix or a magic pill that gives you joy. God is not also there to refuse to ever give you joy-- He doesn't say "no," but He might say, "Put down the razor, it won't help." God is there to say, "Even if you're not doing a good enough job on what you've been given, I love you just as much."
That's where the joy is.
I do.
My brother has this girlfriend who's really fucking religious who believes that he should donate a lot of his money to a church because he earned it in less-than-morally right ways. She insists that if he gives at least half of it to the church that god will provide for them.
Oddly, this same girl has that mentality that birth control is evil and that god should decide how many children you have. (How about that family with 18 kids? They have that mentality, too.)
I forsee... a large, poor family at the borderline of white trash.
Obviously, this relationship isn't going to last very long.
Among other things, this should be a lesson not to do something just because everyone else is or seems to. Just because something is a trend, or the "experts" are encouraging it, doesn't mean it's right or even smart.
Creation Ministries International published an interesting article about links between evolutionary thinking ('dog-eat-dog', 'survival of the fittest', etc.) and the current economic crisis. See Global meltdown, economic woes, and evolution.
Greed nurtured by the media, worldliness, ignorance of how mortgages work, false optimism, false advertising and counseling by loan companies, sermons by unbiblical pastors, unwillingness to read the Bible for oneself....who knows what all contributed to this crisis?
I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings about this, because there are lots of different cases out there and lots of people are suffering.
God has given most of us a reasonable amount of intelligence and I think He expects us to use it, along with prayer, when making a major (or minor) decision. There are amortization calculators available for FREE on the internet. Anyone taking out a mortgage should know terms like principal and interest and balloon note and generally FLEE if a deal seems too good to be true. I can't help but wonder what they teach teenagers in schools today; apparently not math that would help them make reasonable and sound financial decisions.
Yes, God definitely can and will provide in certain circumstances. Occasionally, He may call us to step out in faith and do something that seems illogical. I certainly don't think that He promises that everyone who makes $20K a year will be able to afford an immaculate McMansion with a manicured lawn....notwithstanding what TV, movies, unbiblical pastors and unscrupulous lending agencies would have us believe.
i'm a firm believer in the "prosperity doctrine" as it is in the bible... but i think its really really stupid to buy stuff you cant pay for. this is not the faith the prosperity message is talking about. and if people were listening to (and all pastors were preaching) the things the bible actually says about prosperity, they would know that borrowing so you can live in a huge home and make yourself look like you've got money that you dont is not blessing...
the blessings of God arent for our own dreams and purposes anyways- He makes us rich for His purposes...
i wish people wouldnt make unwise decisions and then blame God or the church for their problems... God gave us brains- how bout using them?
I don't blame GOD or the preachers for people losing their homes. I blame it on the individuals who didn't fully research what they were getting into.
Buying a home is a HUGE deal, why would you go into something w/out fully understanding it? - Seems pretty dumb, don't ya think?
wow. when will people realize that any "gospel" that takes the focus off Jesus Christ and what you can give to Him (instead of what YOU receive) is just plain WRONG? The most beautiful part of a relationship with Christ is when he STRIPS YOU of everything, lets you fall in the dirt of your humanity, and then shows you that HE is all you need.
"Preachers" like this are such a blemish on Christianity. You want a gospel that will change your life? Listen to Jesus Christ himself. His foundations will never plunge, let alone drop even half a point.
Need vs. Wants. We want God to bless yet live any way we want to? We sometimes do things halfway and miss it.
Psalms 37:3-8, 11 (KJV)
3Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
4Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
5Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
6And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
7Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
8Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
11But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Sometimes, we jump into things without really seeking God. Just hearing a few words from another without seeking can get us in trouble or misunderstanding. Again, these verses are just the tip of the iceberg! Sometimes, if we are not seeking God could we be like selling our soul?
God does provide, but God also says in Romans 13:8 "Owe no man anything, but to love one another...." The Lord does prosper His people, but He also says to be content with what we have. He said He would give us houses & lands, but then there are the examples in the Bible of those who had no homes.
God's plans & purposes for our lives, being Kingdom minded, our walk with the Lord, & totally trusting Him for everything are some of the factors of what our lives will entail. But, no matter what circumstance we find ourselves in, He will bless & prosper; He will be with us.
Prosperity isn't always measured in things & money, but can include those things. We cannot let things & getting riches own us. Those who believe & are saved by Jesus' sacrifice are no longer their own; they have been bought with a price - Jesus' death on the cross & the blood He shed. So, everything a Christian does should always be done with that in mind.
All that to say, both sides of the "Prosperity" message (God's provision with our responsibilities) must be presented so the Christian will have the proper Biblical view of prosperity & riches.