by mr palmAccording to
this recent Time article, several experts on the Prosperity Gospel believe that the movement led followers into the trap that has ensnared the American economy: buying a house that you can't afford.
The Prosperity Gospel preaches that God wants to bless his children with riches on earth. When mortgage loans were being approved nearly regardless of credit rating, followers may have seen it as God opening the door to their dream home. Perhaps the common thinking of "God will increase my wealth" led to people to purchase a home that was beyond their means.
As we sorely know, the American housing market collapsed, and many dreams have been shattered.
Do you think that the Prosperity Gospel influenced its followers to buy homes that they couldn't afford?
Comments (74)
more than just that... it's brutally exporting Believe in Jesus to get rich to africa and asia....
The Prosperity Gospel is idolatry with Christian skin to it... and it just doesn't fly Biblically...
@Cygnus33@xanga - you said it better than i could. that's pretty much what i feel too.
wait...so are we blaming Joel Osteen on the failing american economy?? i hope not.
to answer the question, no i don't believe the prosperity movement induced the housing crisis. regardless of whomever is preaching the message, it's clear in the bible that God wants us to be prosperous. that does not mean that he doesn't want us to be wise. how did solomon become one of the richest kings in history? he asked God for wisdom and the rest followed.
for what it's worth, i attend lakewood church and i have not been compelled to buy a house or anything else that i know i can't afford, and i hear joel preach every sunday.
Do you think that the Prosperity Gospel influenced its followers to buy homes that they couldn't afford?
Yes, because that is a false impression of what the Bible means. Although I really think that one must help himself rather than thinking God is going to drop things into his lap.
Doesn't the same Bible also say that one of the fruits of Holy Spirit is "self-control"? God blesses me a job which brings a $1000 paycheck and I spent $2000 without self-control and then say that "God will provide". Is that right? I don't think so.
Pastors can help us to understand more about God's Word but it doesn't mean that we don't need to spend time to SEEK God (God's wisdom, PERSONAL relationship with God, ...etc..).
Did "Prosperity Gospel" lead to losing homes? Maybe. But is that ALL the pastor's (or THAT gospel's) responsibility? I don't think so.
God will provide. And, read the whole Bible.. How about Jesus' parable about the "good and faithful" servant and the "bad and lazy" servant... and the fruits of the Holy Spirit (as mentioned earlier) and who lacks of wisdom, ask God... and on and on and on...
@BrainTease@xanga - I do agree with him, People are responsible for their own actions.
Don't try to blame this or that gospel or the banks for your own choice out of your free will that God gives you.
Prosperity doctrine: part of the problem only to a small degree, the gullibility and greed of people in general (irregardless of their belief system) has led to this crisis.
Prosperity doctrine: Phooey. Peter said "silver and gold have I none such as give thee, in the Name of Jesus Christ." Paul only had one coat, and no home. Job lost eveything. All these where Christ's.
@BrainTease@xanga - amen. We bring most of trials on ourselves by our own decisions.
@gwacemom@momaroo - amen sis. How He pays back is His business, it can come in any form. God will not be indebted to anyone.
I can't say I believe in "Prosperity Gospel"..... everyone likes ok loves nice things, and yes they make us happy if that's the word. See people interpret things certain ways - and people still need to use sound judgment... like Proverbs - that's a great book. People need to strive for a rich soul and rich spirituality, because in the end that is what will get us through in this world. I think its very difficult even for us Christians not to fall in the material trap. I mean look at the T.V. Gospel Channels, look at the pastors, with their huge churches, and big extravagant displays, and their riches (yes they are rich). They have limo's, nice big cars, mansions and private planes... Get this... (and I know people will disagree)... Jesus NEVER preached MATERIAL WEALTH.... NEVER NEVER NEVER..... what we all should pray and strive for is spiritual wealth - and if we happen to have a lot of money during our stay on earth that's a bonus, and if we are dirt broke poor, if we are spiritually rich - we'll still have a quality life - and probably won't even notice what we are materially lacking... that's just my opinion.
Wait!!!!! Hold up!!! There are "experts" on the prosperity gospel? People need lives and real jobs...just saying!
I don't think "God will provide" is bull. Several times in the Bible we're clearly told that God will take care of His children, and that it's important to trust Him in all things. But we are never EVER promised riches, or houses, or cars, or any semblance of wealth from a worldly standpoint.
The saying has been attributed to several individuals (St. Augustine, St. Ignatius, Cardinal Francis) but it's very very true no matter who said it "Pray as if everything depended upon God and work as if everything depended upon man."
We have to do our work to make our lives what we want them to be, and what we believe God wants it to be. I don't like the Prosperity Gospel at all, although I think Joel Osteen is an excellent motivational speaker (I just wish he'd stop telling people they can have what they want if they just ask God.)
And I think there probably ARE people who thought being able to buy this big expensive house was part of receiving God's blessings in their life and didn't bother to read their contracts or question things. In the end, it's their responsibility, but I can see how someone who perhaps doesn't have the Biblical knowledge would misunderstand that. And I also believe this is another fabulous opportunity to reach out to those people and help them see what God does promise us, and how even this awful thing can be used for His good in the long run.
God helps those who help themselves. He will not give you gifts you do not deserve or need. and anyone making $40,000 a year who thinks they need a $500,000 home should have themselves committed.
the Prosperity Doctrine is incredibly dangerous and moronic. it's the best example of Christianity pandering to modern-day secular desires. but at the same time, i don't sympathize with those who fell for it.
I think a lot of people misuse "God will provide" and sayings like that - God won't provide anything if you don't do anything to try and better yourself, or if you purposefully get in over your head! If you do something silly like this and then say "God will provide," you're just using him as a scapegoat in order to be irresponsible yourself.
I think this mentality may have furthered the problems of a lot of people in bad situations as you talk about, but I don't think we can actually blame it for these problems.
The problem with the Prosperity Gospel is they use promises in the Bible out of context, and they use words of wisdom and principles about life as promises. The Bible does say that if we give to him he will bless us. But that's a generality - not necessarily a promise to every individual. And God's promises were directly to the Israelites. If they gave the firstfruits of their labors and sacrificed to God, he would, in fact, bless them. But that doesn't necessarily apply to us today. Another Biblical principle is that if we are wise with our money we will prosper - that's a principle, a generality -- not even a promise. By definition, being wise with your money will increase your wealth -- but it doesn't account for financial emergencies and difficulties (like severe illness or lost jobs). That's when saving for the future and for emergencies is important. Christ tells us not to worry about what we will eat or what we will wear, for God will provide. But he doesn't promise that God will provide us with the house of our dreams, the car of our dreams, a yacht, etc. God will provide the basic necessities. Sometimes God provides a means of affording these things (ie a second or even third job).
But I don't think we can blame the current crises on the Prosperity Gospel. Because people shouldn't be buying houses based on future prosperity they hope they may have. Even if you believe in the Proseperity Gospel, you should wait for God to bless you, then buy the house. The Bible is very clear on debt -- it is very much against it. So you are welcome to believe God will bless you, just wait until you have those blessings before you take out too big a loan.
The Bible never ever teaches that God wants us to have more stuff. Paul ended up in prison (with more or less nothing). Jesus Himself didn't really have a home. How many times did He tell His followers to drop everything and follow Him? He didn't say, "Work hard for that promotion, build a nicer home, and I will be pleased." When it says in Romans that God works all things for good, it means it will be good within HIS plan, not ours. Jeremiah 29:11 talks about God's plan to prosper us... but we mistakenly infer that we are to be rich and well-off, when in reality, God's plan has a funny way of looking less-than-appealing.
God does provide, when you are asking Him for more of Him. He is not a genie in the sky who pops out blessings when you ask. He is God. He does things because it will bring Him more glory.
The whole prosperity gospel is a load of baloney. People who have had their houses foreclosed on them are very unfortunate. I'm not going to point fingers and say that they made poor choices in living above their means, but anyone who tries to blame it on the prosperity gospel needs to have their heads examined. I agree with previous posts in that we are responsible for our own actions, and if your house was taken away because you bought something you couldn't afford, then that's your fault. Not Joel Osteen's fault. (My rant on Joel will be reserved for another time.)
I firmly believe that "God will provide" and in my life he has been faithful to this promise time and time again. I think God answered the question about our economy pretty well in the garden of eden. When Adam and Eve ate that apple their were immediate consequences for their actions, and I believe that most of this "Financial Crisis" is a result of the consequences for people spending more than they can afford. I also feel that in the midst of everything people can find hope in the fact that we serve a God who will certainly provide for us:) Good question!
yes, and the problem is, when people pray for something and a coincidence happens, they automatically assume it's god answering their prayers. to christians, coincidence doesn't exist, it's always god or the evil doing something. so, putting all your faith in god, then going from a nice house to living in your car, if yous till have that too that is, can be pretty earth shattering.
what i realized when i left the church was that when i was praying and things happened, it wasn't god at all. when i was praying i was going over situations in my head and that led me to find the answer or to understand what i need to do because i was talking myself through it. it wasn't some invisible divine being giving me the answer, it was me, as a human, working through my problems, by myself.
sory to any of you who lost your homes because oyu put everything on someone youc an't see or really talk to. it happens a lot, but god is just like the market, he only exists in our minds and works the best when everyone uses him.
Maybe... but I think it has more to do with American materialism and consumerism than the bible's teachings, which I think call fo simplicity, giving, servant-hood, and sacrifice over ones ability to be/feel blessed and have lots of money.
so you think people shouldn't trust God for their prosperity? be careful what you condemn, it means you can't have it...and stop trying to pit differing Christian groups against eachother, shame! and judge not because you will be judged that way...all kinds of things to not recommend this post there are all kinds of blessings God offers that people miss or mess up...doesn't mean the message is bad....
@eclipse_the_dawn@xanga -
Haha! I sure hope anyone who believes that is in foreclosure.
@sheilster@xanga - It's the truth. Live within your means and you'll do fine. What's so hard about that?
(Also, no, I'm not in foreclosure at all, so swing and a miss.)
@greeneddy@xanga - So don't waste your time reading or responding.
@dedwinhedon@xanga - However, when I pray for something many times and many "coincidences" happen, and when the same coincidences don't happen when I don't pray, I think I'm justified in believing I'm dealing with something other than a "coincidence."
(i.e. if I call a coin heads once and it comes up heads once, it's most likely a coincidence-- if it happens a hundred times in a row, it's more likely that someone rigged it.)
@Cygnus33@xanga - "READ THE BIBLE! It talks about testing what we hear from the pulpits and 'holding fast to that which is true' " this is so right on, i don't really have anything else to add
God will provide for our NEEDS. Sure, we need shelter, but I personally don't know anyone who NEEDS a 4000+ square foot home.
God provides, but it's up to us to use His gifts responsibly.
To answer the question: No.
The "Prosperity Gospel" is a reflection of our cultural climate; it is a symptom, not the cause, of an underlying problem in our society. People are attracted to it because they want to hear it. I don't think it's ever persuaded someone to believe they didn't already believe or want to have an excuse for believing.
"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." --2 Timothy 4:3-4
By the way-- ever notice that many of the churches that condemn the gospel of "health, wealth, and prosperity" are made up primarily of healthy, wealthy, and prosperous people? The same problem is there-- pursuing material gain over spiritual gain-- whether or not it's officially codified in their theology. At least Osteen isn't being hypocritical about believing it.
God, however, is very faithful to provide all our needs when we ask Him. Not necessarily our wants.
The positive thinking mentality was seeded in the mind-body connection of healing put forward in theory by a man named Phineas P. Quimby in 1862 and since that time has undergone a drastic evolution that would roll the old clockmaker, Quimby, in his grave. The concept of intention-manifestation as the greatest labor saving device since the cotton gin is uniquely American and the magical thinking evolution since Quimby's time has appeared to trickle upward into government with the magical intent of bailing out Wall Street as cure for a dangerously ailing economy. It is also a good sales pitch by televangelists and assorted New Age philosophers to followers on whom God apparently did not bestow the common sense that was given Geese. The ones to prosper have been the televangelists and "The Secret" based seminar speakers and authors while their followers sink further into the mud.
The laws of cause and effect are very stringent in the Universe, it seems and many forgot the reality of it. I think a lot of it has to do with the egoic struggle of the working class against the onslaught of celebrity culture. Everybody bemoans his own lack of what is perceived as the celebrated and the good life. For one, the housing cost market went beyond the means of the middle class to possibly afford and exceeded actual value through greed. Now, the greedy have found a way to benefit from the misery of those who believed they could prosper and these jackals are waiting at the doorstep to make money on foreclosures...and so the greed continues because we still believe in the concept of feeding off the disproportions in society. And basing a society on credit economics has done little to solve the problem. The mythological mark of the beast seems to be credit scores and credit cards, apparently. It is little more than a modern day form of sharecropping where debt is never relieved.
It is all very strange and apparently is not lessening any time soon. Blaming does no service, because even that is only an illusion that makes us feel safe.
Be Blessed~