I'm not religious or anything, but I think it would be comforting and fair to think in this way? It gives some meaning to life so you don't commit sins, and almost like a reward in the afterlife? Maybe humans are just too greedy too...? Too many questions and speculations about this... Only one way to really find out for sure eh?

@ElizabethSnow@xanga -So the general idea of your entire
argument, as I can best understand it, is that God looks through the
pages of time, which He did not write, and sees who will choose Him,
and He chooses them as a result.

Is this a correct summation?

Not entirely. Obviously there are things that God does
predestine. He predestined that Jesus would come and die for our sins.
And as a Christian, God tells us that we are predestined to be
conformed to the image of his Son. You are correct that God foreknows
those that will choose him after he draws them to himself.

@musterion99@xanga - 

Can they resist His drawing?

The Problem of Free Will
    Let me state right from the beginning, I'm not and expert on this subject.  With that said, let me say that when dealing with this subject you must distinguish between the temporal realm and the spiritual realm.  I believe that in the temporal realm, man has free will.  You can choose to walk, ride a bus, bike, or train, or drive to work or school.  You can even choose not to go. You can choose to obey the law or break the law.  You can choose to vote or not vote.  You might say there's a flip side to almost every decision you make.
   

But when it comes to the spiritual realm, that's a subject that been debated since for centuries.  Here are  two comparisons:

Free-Will or Human Ability vs. Total Inability or Total Depravity

Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation.

Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead1, blind2, and deaf3 to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt4. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature1&5. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God. 

 1 Ephesians 2:1; 2 Romans 11:7-10 & 2 Corinthians 4:3-4; 3 Zechariah 7:11; 4 Jeremiah17:9; 5 2 Corinthians 5:17

Now here my take on the subject.

1.Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44 (NKJV)   One must be drawn by the Father.

2. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good.  God looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. Every one of them has turned aside; They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. Psalm 53:1-3 (NKJV)  No one seek God and Paul expands on this in Romans 3.  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23 (NKJV)   The best that anyone can do fall short of the requirement.

3. "I taught Ephraim to walk, Taking them by their arms; But they did not know that I healed them.  I drew them with gentle cords, With bands of love, And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck. I stooped and fed them." Hosea 11:3-4 (NKJV)  The Father does the work.

4. Jesus said, "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.  No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you." John 15:13,15 (NASB77)  But Paul wrote, "And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled" Colossians 1:21 (NKJV) Was Jesus going to lay down His life for both His friends and His enemies.  He seems to have implied He was doing it for His friends.

Suffice it to say, We don't choose God He chooses us.

@sheepthatsblack@xanga - Wow! Great post!

@musterion99@xanga - 

I would attest that it was not His working will to gather them, or else they would surely be gathered.  None can resist the divinely orchestrated will of God.  All of the sinners that God saves are stiff-necked and unwilling, uncircumcised in heart.
As He declares:

There is none righteous, no not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They all have turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no not one. (Romans 3:10ff)

I also would mention that it is not only salvation that is the gift of God, but what Paul is saying is that faith is the gift of God.  The Greek is very specific in its pronoun usage.  Faith is the gift of God, lest anyone should boast. 

@ElizabethSnow@xanga - I would attest that it was not His working will to gather them, or else they would surely be gathered.

If it wasn't his working will, then what kind of will would you call it? Jesus said it was his will to gather them?  Was Jesus lying? The only way it makes any sense is what I have been saying, maybe not to you but in other comments I made here. And that is that God made the Sovereign decision to allow us the freedom to choose. There's no other way that verse makes any sense.

All of the sinners that God saves are stiff-necked and unwilling, uncircumcised in heart.

Yes, but that was not the context of that verse. It said that they always "resisted" the Holy Spirit. Again, God allows us the choice to resist him.

I don't disagree with the verses from Romans 3. I said that God must first draw us to himself because we are not seeking God on our own.

I also would mention that it is not only
salvation that is the gift of God, but what Paul is saying is that
faith is the gift of God.

Of course faith is a gift and God allows us to choose to use it. Look at how many times Jesus exhorted the disciples to have faith and to not doubt. They had a choice to use their faith. We don't always use the gift of faith that God has given us. Sometimes we choose to doubt and be fearful and some times we choose to have faith. God tells us to take up the shield of faith. He exhorts us to do that because he doesn't force us to do it but gives us a choice. This is all so basic and logical. I don't know why you can't comprehend it. There are so many verses all throughout the bible that show God allowing us to choose. I already showed you Revelation 22:17. Here's one more that maybe you can comprehend.

Hebrews 3:7-8 - "Wherefore as the Holy Ghost saith, Today if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness."

Here it is clear that God is allowing choice and he shows it both now and from the Old Testament times. He says if "ye will", "harden not". They had a choice of whether or not to harden their hearts. And the context of this is salvation if you read verse 5 right before this where again God clearly allows us to choose.

@ElizabethSnow@xanga - Even though there are strong verses that imply that it's possible, I personally do not believe we can lose our salvation. I believe those verses are speaking about people that had experiences with church and God, but they were never truly saved. 

this is one of the many reasons i do not believe in Hell.  people become saved through the grace of God, then God must provide them with an event which allows them to experience that grace.  if God never does this, is it the fault of the person's?  no.  so why should they be punished?

clearly, not everyone is meant to be Christian.  if that were the case, God would be working specifically towards that goal.

I have become very knowledgeable about this issue in Christianity over the past year. I believe you are speaking about Calvinism. Calvinism is simply the belief that God has chosen certain people to be saved. Or as you call it, election. I have a lot of material on this issue if you would like me to send you some. Just for the record I believe the same as you. I DO NOT believe in Calvinism or as you call it, election. If you would like to talk about this just shoot me a comment.   http://www.revelife.com/jdlovesgod1750
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