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mr maple I accidentally let the forbidden phrase, "God kills people" out of my mouth and got an earful about how inappropriate it was to say that. Someone argued that it was our own decision and our own sin that "killed us", to which I argued back that, if God is truly sovereign and holds both life and death in his hands, then ultimately it is he who kills us in the end.
True, I was a little bitter when I first said it, but I didn't mean it in an accusatory way. The Old Testament is certainly more explicit about it, calling for the slaying of the wicked and the disembowelment of their babies and such. We happily and readily give God credit for giving life; why should we couch our terms and pull our punches when referring to death? Perhaps it is our general societal aversion to death that makes saying such a thing seem unseemly, but maybe if we acknowledged its truth a little more bluntly we'd be able to deal with it better.
Sensitivities aside (I wouldn't say that to someone grieving a death), do you think there's something theologically or fundamentally wrong in saying that God kills people? Is it merely socially unacceptable?
Comments (130)
its the truth unless scripture is all a lie.
I think God kills people. I think the problem is, when we say such a phrase, the first thing we think of is God killing innocent people. Like he is stalking in Heaven with a sniper rifle or something.
But God does kill people. For example, if an elderly person dies of old age, who ultimately 'called them home'? God did.
The reason people get so offended by that statement is because we as humans have become so attached to our lives that we've somehow come under the notion that we are the sole owners of our lives. It may sound harsh, but is correct. God is the creator of all things and we are His creation.
Sometimes natural disasters may take our loved ones and we cry out saying "Why?" or "He/She was too young..." God chooses His people, and it is not up to us to influence His decision. This is a truth I still have a hard time accepting, and I ask "What about the people who God doesn't choose? They don't even get a choice in the matter?" It does not seem fair.
I am contradicting myself. Enough rambling.
no, God don't kill people. when kind person who very old in agos. God call you , because it time going to home with him.
if person who so young dead in early. well two way,
1.) might time go home
2) God let happen because that person didn't listen His warning. like felt weried, something like that.
God love all us ever and forever.
I think that the problem is admitting why God would kill anyone. It's accountability at the fact that we do sin, and by sinning and coming against God, God punishes us so that we might turn back to Him. And aside from that, who are we to question the ways of a God who is high and set apart. A God who is set apart, who's ways are higher then ours.
gods an asshole
peace max
Sensitivities aside (I wouldn't say that to someone grieving a death),
do you think there's something theologically or fundamentally wrong in
saying that God kills people?
Absolutely not. God is just in everything he does. In the N.T. he also kills people. Remember Ananias and his wife Sapphira?
But we do need to be careful in saying that God kills people every time we see people die in hurricanes and other disasters. It may be that he did or it might just be the natural results of a world in which sin dwells.
@JonJonx89@xanga - This is a truth I still have a hard time
accepting, and I ask "What about the people who God doesn't choose?
They don't even get a choice in the matter?" It does not seem fair.
Maybe because that is not the truth. I certainly don't believe that. I believe it's God's will for all to repent and believe and God does not choose those whom he foreknows will not repent and believe. I agree with you that if what you said was true, it wouldn't be fair.
But the bible says that "God is no respecter of persons and wants all to come to repentance."
Well it's true that God does kill people. I just never really saw it that way. . .it's more like Him taking back what's rightfully His. I don't know if this helped, but that's my take on it.
God doesn't kill people
Chuck Norris Does
No, we kill ourselves, God doesn't play human games. And scripture has ulterior motives. Death is an illusion.
I think I balk at the verb "kill". It implies a hatred, or an impulsive activity that occurs in a moment of passion that leaves no room for merciful considerations. That's just not consistent with the character of God as we know Him. After all what about this verse:
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
or this one:
Jer 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
I can argue with myself and see that we kill some criminals who seem to have an unswerving bent to commit egregious crimes against innocent persons; and that mercy was considered and balanced against the seriousness of their crime and the possibility that they may recommit it in their trial processes before the execution is carried out. God can and has operated in a similar way in numerous verses in the Bible. Egypt's several curses during Moses' return to bring his people out of there, are a great example of this.
I guess I think that we need to be just as careful in saying that God kills. I am reminded of a lesson from Joel Stowell where he taught: "Friends, if you have to tell the world that they are going to Hell, at least do it with tears in your eyes!"
That's what I was missing in your usage. The tears. [Hugs to the brother and sister who needed to hear that. I have misty eyes keying this....]
@maxilebo93@xanga - ok, I had to point out that you say this, and you have a cigarette up your nostril....
I think that how you view this will depend on your theology. If you're Reformed, then yes, God kills people. You can't really spin it any other way if you claim reformed theology.
If you are Arminian in your theology though, then it's not God who kills us, but we kill ourselves.
The real question isn't really does kill people or not, but how exactly "sovreign" is God???
The forbidden phrase.
Jesus Christ, dude.
It must suck having to filter all the things that want to leave your mouth.
God gives life. Therefore He has every right in taking it back. It's His to start with. We're merely "borrowing" life in a way. But God never just takes it back for no reason. He has a purpose and a plan. Being humans we are just too insignificant to comprehend the slightest bit of it.
This has GOT to be one of my favorite questions I've never heard before. Maybe it would be good to stop and review what we know (or can know) of the scripture. God created the Heavens AND the Earth, the birds of the sky, the creatures of the sea, the human beings, the plants...etc, etc...When God created these things, He made them Perfect. Once sin entered the world thru Adam and Eve, the nature of human beings was that of a sin nature. Condemning everyone to hell.
Harsh words? Ha. Even if Christ hadn't come to die on the cross for your sins and my sins, I would not believe this condemnation to be harsh. Why?? Because, God did not create us for our own purposes, but for His plan, HIS glory. He created us and WE sinned. We are slaves to sin before we are saved, slaves. When we were made to be slaves of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
The fact of the matter is that God knew we would be a falling nation. God did not create us to sin tho. We brought upon our own condemnation,our own death.
Yes,God knows when you will die and when you will be born. God can take your life whenever He wills, and it is just. Some people might want to take this opportunity to say that God is a mean God, or how could God do this to people? When in reality, the proper question would be, Why wouldn't God do this to people. We were created to worship him, and all we do is sin against him time and time again.
The wonderful thing is that in reality, God is a wrathful God. He is ALSO a loving God. Who sent His son to die to pay for the sins of the world. When His son died on the cross, He experianced the wrath for all of our sins. ALL THE WRATH!! I can't even contemplate how dreadful hell would be, but can you imagin bearing all the wrath for the WHOLE world? And, He was forsaken from God when He was in the midst of this wrath. Undeservingly, He suffered. Undeservingly, some will be saved thru His death.
Okay, I will continue no longer. But, HOW GREAT IS OUR GOD!!
yes god kills people. When the Israelites touched the ark of the covenant (while pulling it with oxen), they instantly died. God killed a member of a church for lying and cheating about giving everything to the Church. His wife "fell dead" soon after. God does kill people...it just a fact. Whether it was his will is another question.
Yes, there are particular instances in the Biblical narrative where God kills people.
But no, God does not kill people as a matter of course. That is theologically inaccurate. See Is God To Blame by Gregory Boyd, which is the most pastorally centered of the writings about open theism. Calvinists like Piper are concerned that open theism is (1) not pastoral and (2) heretical, but it's actually extremely biblical, as a cursory glance through Boyd's or John Sanders' books will show.
-NDSR
@ronixgirl@xanga - amen! i couldn't have said that better if i had prepared a week in advance. well said =)
I'm going to chime in and simply say that we are so offended by the notion that God kills people because we have this idea that there is such thing as innocent people. We love the idea that man is relatively good..
The bigger question is not "how can God kill people?" It is, "Why this righteous and holy God, knowing the rebellion in our heart, hasn't utterly destroy us in righteous indignation yet?" It's in that questioning that grace is amazing..
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— Romans 5:12.
Our own sin does kill us, as Mr. Maple wrote. That means a spiritual death, a separation from God. But it also means physical death as well. There would have been no physical death apart from the sin of Adam.
That said, I still see God as sovereign over the time of our physical death. He is King of the whole universe, and death can only take someone if God says it is time to do so. Ps. 139:16 says that God knew all our days before they were written. (This is similar to how Satan spoke to God and God told him he could only do so much to Job and no more. God is God and no one can do anything apart from what He allows. Think of Herod Pilate and the other leaders who said they had power...God Himself is the one permitted them to have that power and to put Jesus to death. It all was according to what God had ordained beforehand. See Acts 2:23; 4:26-28.)
And similarly, God is sovereign over our spiritual rebirth. Apart from Christ, the Bible says no one seeks God. Unbelievers are dead in sins and transgressions; how can a dead man bring himself to life? We are born again only through the power of God in our lives.
When we say "God kills people," that gives people the impression that God is a God of judgment (which is true) but neglects the fact that He loved the world and send His only begotten Son...that He paid the ultimate price in shedding His own blood to save men from eternal damnation and give them eternal life. As @IMChurchmouse@xanga wrote, God is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance.
All sin deserves to be punished by a Holy God. Apart from faith in Christ, all men are under wrath, under condemnation. The Good News is that God has provided a way to turn back the curse of sin and death. Our sin condemns us but God provided the way of salvation by sending His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to die in our place so we wouldn't have to bear the just punishment for our sin.
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ is just and the justifier. He is the God who required a sacrifice for sin and provided the sacrifice for sin in Himself.
All through the Bible, if you read closely enough (even in the OT), you will see God continuing to reach out, to give people opportunity to repent and forsake their sin.
...grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1:17b.Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Psalm 85:10.
When we speak/teach of God we must include both aspects of God's character, His judgment and His mercy, otherwise the glorious Gospel can't be seen clearly.
no.I believe god won't kill people..
Actually,they killed by themselves,becoz we did much to destory the earth,lead to climatic change and abnormal climate.
Interesting post. You got me thinking! Its for some people to see this concept because as some have mentioned to kill denotes an evil intention, however when God killed people in the Bible it was to prevent sin from spreading. now If I am 95 and God decides to call me home, thats different than him Killing me. I think God takes lives when he deems so, but I don;t know if Killing is the appropriate term. God bless!