from
kechineko244 
I've seen all kinds of things popping up on Christian blogs about women and bikinis, and how Christian women should not wear them because "it would cause our brothers in Christ to stumble". I'm sorry, I am a Christian woman, and this is really bothering me. Why, do you ask? It is not because I oppose modesty, nor do I think girls should walk around with everything hanging out.
It's because this is just the old Adam cop-out. "It's the woman's fault I stumbled, God. It was her, not me. If she hadn't worn that, I would not have lusted." Hm, sounds very much like that scene in the Garden of Eden, does it not?
Men have a duty to look after their own heart. They must also understand that not all of us women are foul temptresses seeking to make them stumble. And how come it is always about the woman making that man stray? What about all those guys who work on their pecs and abs to impress the ladies? Those men are not told to cover up. Instead, their bodies are celebrated, and if the woman lusts or stumbles because of it, no blame is placed on the man. The woman was just sinful, that's all.
Am I the only one who thinks this is totally unfair? The Bible even says that woman is the glory of man. Eve was the very last thing God created. She was a perfect finish to a perfect creation. Then why is it that Christian, Jewish, and Muslim women are taught that they should be ashamed of their bodies and that their bodies are only tools of the devil, designed only to make man stumble? Why is celebrating our God-given beauty a sin? God would have made us detestable to look at if our bodies were meant to be so. But the woman was made to be pleasing to the eye. That is the way we were designed. And I'm not being prideful. There is a big difference between being prideful in your looks and just realizing that, as God's creation, you are beautiful.
I dress modestly. I like tank tops but they are always thick-strapped with acceptable necklines. I don't even wear shorts in the summer. I always wear jeans. But my body is not shaped like a bag of potatoes so I'm not going to wear frumpy dumpy lumpy clothes and cover my face and hair so my brothers won't stumble. If a man can't see a woman in a bathing suit or a woman showing just a little skin without "stumbling", then he is a man of very weak character, and he needs to take responsibility for that.
Guys, what standard of modesty do you expect from the girls around you? Girls, do you agree that the way guys present themselves can also cause us to stumble?
Comments (178)
This site reallt interest me since I consider myself nondenominational. I completely agree with the author of this post.
I believe that the responsiblity lies in both the man and the woman. We have a biblically mandated job of trying to remain as pure as possible, and make an effort to not only watch how we present ourselves but to also monitor our motivation. For example:
I have a friend who is a new christian, and happens to have some curves. I finally confronted her about her revealing dress style one day, after she showed all but her nipples at my son's 11th birthday party. (In front of everyone, including my husband, all the other young boys, and our elderly neighbors). She pointed out that she likes her boobs, and that she likes to show them off. But I pointed out, that its a very disrespectful thing to do to draw attention to your self, especially in the presence of men that are NOT your husband. She just hadn't considered that her actions/clothing could affect others in a negative way. She was simply doing what our culture encourages.
While hubby and I had discussed her habitual partial nudity, he did point out that usually he will wander off and let us visit and try not to be around it. I found this encouraging, but it makes me think about what I wear when I leave my house. I encourage others to do the same. While we may not strive to cause others to stumble, we do...we are human...That Heavens for God and his redemption...right?
I have many reasons to dress modestly, from keeping my Christian Brothers from stumbling, for my own comfort, as a way to tell the world that I will not be objectified, and I felt prettier and more respected when I dress modestly and wear skirts.
@HeartOfPandora@xanga - it's not outdated, what Paul says about women dressing modestly; in fact in other passages addressing the same issue Paul goes on to say that he is not just giving an opinion but providing them information from a commandment from God. God's Commandments do not come with expiration dates.
@Theophilus166@xanga - wholeheartedly agree!
@living_embers@xanga - No no no, I was saying the Bible itself is outdated, I know nothing of the people within.
@HeartOfPandora@xanga - If the Bible itself is outdated, then would not the contents of the Bible be outdated? However, that's a different topic.
@living_embers@xanga - Who knows? I don't care enough to keep thinking about it, much less argue the point.
@Kristenmomof3@xanga - she's not even wearing a cape dress, and her bonnet is like an old west bonnet, not a covering. maybe try being more non resistant eh?
If we are not going to follow biblical priciples then why do we call ourselves christians and make it a "christian issue"?
The bible says all things are permisable but if it causes a weaker christian to stumble then it is better to avoid the thing that makes them stumble.
But be dang with that old Godliness and lets just think about what we want to do. Screw our weaker brothers and sisters. Let's all just live by moral relativism. I can wear a thong and it's your problem if it makes you lust. Get over it! See you at the nudist sunrise service Sunday.
A little sarcasm.
a naked woman has never caused a man to stumble. He stumbles when he allows himself to lust. a man is by no means forced to lust by a woman. modesty is an issue, yes, but the Bible never mentions it as a way to keep brothers from sin, unless I'm forgetting something. I doubt it very much.
@Kristenmomof3@xanga - second thought my reply sounded kinna flamey... may apologys
men are responsible for there own sins, and no one can really "blame" others for there own sins, but women should not tempt men or put them in any bad positions.
it's a similar standard for many other sins: not to tempt someone or to put them in a position to sin. there's really no reason why you should be offended by this teaching.
"But the woman was made to be pleasing to the eye"
>>There's your answer. The female body is a work of art, the man's body is utilitarian, like a jeep.
But I agree if a man can stumble so easily he needs to learn not to be so clumsy and not blame his problems on other people.
"Men have a duty to look after their own heart. They must also
understand that not all of us women are foul temptresses seeking to
make them stumble."
>>Then why are all the bad characters in the media almost always women? delilah, bathsheba, lady macbeth, wicked queen (snow white), queen of hearts (alice in wonderland), underwater octopus shaman (little mermaid), cruella deville (101 dalmations), yoko ono, hillary clinton, the list goes on and on.
oh get off the picture. yes, the author could have been very much more vigilant in choosing a photo, but i have a feeling that attacking the photo is some folks' way of showing disapproval of the overrall post.
anyhoo, this is EXACTLY what i had running through my mind on the way to work one day. true, some women are either very ignorant when it comes to dressing (which, most often, isn't too much of a problem if they are shown/told what modesty is. ignorance simply means not aware or not knowing), or simply do not care, but most of us honestly do stare at our closets and scratch our heads from time to time. whatever curves show through my clothing i really can't help, and for the most part i either dress professionally or very casual--im a t-shirt and jeans kinda chick. at the same time though, i think men may underestimate how much us women look at them as well...in fact, my sister and i once pulled up some chairs and sat on the porch to watch some scantily (sp?) clad construction guys work on our street (!!!) lol.
the point of this comment, though, is to simply point out that modesty is a two way street. we cannot make anyone do anything. instead we have to be mindful of our brothers' and sisters' shortcomings. you never know, a man or woman may have some other problem such as an addiction of some sort, that overrides this very problem (i.e. a man could be more interested in getting to the local bar, ect..). committing oneself to holiness is the ultimate key.
-bliss
@MJRx9000@xanga -
>>Then why are all the bad characters in the media almost always women? delilah, bathsheba, lady macbeth, wicked queen (snow white), queen of hearts (alice in wonderland), underwater octopus shaman (little mermaid), cruella deville (101 dalmations), yoko ono, hillary clinton, the list goes on and on.
This "observation" isn't very fair. In fact, as a journalist, I know for a fact that this is very false indeed. Also, we cannot use the work of man (cartoon character?!?!?! come on! lol) to prove a point--open up a Bible and you'll come up with all the examples, of both men and women alike, you need.
-bliss
But what does it say about my point that the greatest Israeli kings, David and Solomon and the strongest Hebrew that probably ever lived (Samson) were brought down by women
here's a novel idea... if you don't like what a woman is wearing... *gasp* don't look. i'm so tired of people trying to censor others to preserve their own modesty. if you can't handle seeing a little cleavage or leg, join a monastery or become a hermit. i love every inch of my body, and i'm not going to hide it because some men are incapable of staring at it without wanting to get in my pants. it's their problem, not mine.
Wow!! First of all, I can't believe the people offended by the picture! It's true! People dress like that and a whole lot of them without question look MISERABLE! They are hot, frumpy, and *hello* they smell! If you want to go without deodorant and dress in heavy cotton from head to toe be my guest but don't complain when people see you for what you are.
Secondly, it's incredibly sad that more guys such as @AdveniatRegnumTuum@xanga - (which btw, bravo, for taking responsibility for your own temptations and lusts!!) aren't agreeing more!
Furthermore, those verses in I Corinthians about eating meat was talking about liberties we take in front of people who would sin if they took those same liberties themselves. People, lets not read into this more than is there. We shouldn't drink wine with our alcoholic friend or watch movies with heavy violence with our friend with the anger problem. We shouldn't serve meat to our vegetarian friend or chomp down on a burger across the table from them. But we can't walk around wondering who we might possibly offend just even in passing. We can't be expected forgo make-up when we go to lunch with our friend whose church preaches women shouldn't wear such worldly paint!
Modesty is a the sign of a heart attitude. A godly woman will know where those lines are for her culture and her own comfort. But a godly man has a responsibility to his own mind and heart. And to @KArTIEj@xanga - ... all I can say is, you need to look for another boyfriend. One who can control his thoughts and honor you in his heart. Why would you want to be with a man who could be 'uncontrollably' lusting at some scantily clad woman while walking through the mall with you who are dressed modestly! My husband doesn't struggle like your date did because he keeps his eyes and mind in the right places! He and I went to the beach when we were engaged and I never saw him loose focus or be out of sorts while we were on the beach with scads of nearly naked women. We never had sex before our marriage so he had to be pretty ready for that by then but he reigned in his needs and kept lust at bay. So it's possible. The guys would much rather have us take the blame but they all know lust takes only a tiny flicker to set it off. Yards of skin are nice but not needed to get those thoughts a rollin'.
Come on guys! Fess up! Yes, we as women should honor God with our bodies but you have your own responsibilities here. As one commenter pointed out, the Arab culture is about as lust ridden as they come!! All they have is sex on the brain!! I have a good friend who is from an Arab culture and considers herself Muslim but she'll tell you that no matter how much clothing the women wear in her culture lust is still RAMPANT!!
And that's my two cents worth! HA!
You sound like a girl after my own heart.
I think people take this to the extreme, as if you are trying to tempt someone into sin. Of course you aren't! At the same time, people say "I only watch movies with mild cussing if everyone is ok with it." Are you then to ask every man you pass if the way you dress causes him to stumble? Or just go out completely covered up just in case?
No, I get what you're saying. Of course, if someone is uncomfortable with my dress, I'd adjust. But, I don't get complaints because I dress modestly anyway. But I'm not going to never swim, or never wear a flattering outfit, because a guy might look at me in a lustful way. I'm not going to wear a potato sack. That will just cause me to be unhappy, and honestly- people who look at me like that will be uncomfortable too. In the end, you have to do what you think is right not only for you, but for everyone involved.
It's not our job as Christians to not care about ourselves at all. We should care about everyone, including ourselves. I don't agree with "I'll give you the shirt off my back." I would rather find a thrift store, or maybe use my shirt to make us both a shirt, or teach you how to make/buy a shirt. Then we both get to be warm and dressed.
I think it really depends on the situation. For example...if you are wearing a bikini in you swimming pool in your back yard with your husband...no, there is nothing at all wrong with it! (I don't know that the bikini is the best example here...so just think skimpis) If you are with a group of guys and you know that what you have on is less than modest and you wear it anyway, that could cause one of them to stumble...I do feel that in that particular situation you are just as guilty as they are. I think there is a time and place for everything...and that should always be considered in the way you adorn yourself. In that same sense, if a man is going to be around a woman and does not wish to make her stumble then he should probably keep his shirt on. Modesty in itself is attractive.
@MJRx9000@xanga -
But what does it say about my point that the greatest Israeli kings, David and Solomon and the strongest Hebrew that probably ever lived (Samson) were brought down by women
Are you serious? Those men stumbled because of their own desires. I will not get into the details of each man's predicaments here, for the sake of brevity, but reread the accounts of these men. They had a mind, a will, and they willingly gave them up for a few moments of carnal pleasure. Again, as I said originally, no one can make anyone do anything. Satan can't even make us do anything, he has to settle for "wiles", or tricks, in order to get us to do things contrary to God's will.
As I said in my first point, striving for a life of holiness should be our ultimate goal. Using the example of Samson, since you mentioned him, he was already living a life outside of the will of God when he allowed himself to be wooed by Delilah. He had abandoned his wife, ignored the Israelites laws concerning holiness, ect...and he was thus already accustomed to doing his own thing and ignoring his responsibilities as a man. His last downfall with Delilah was merely the climax of all of his shortcomings beforehand.
I strongly encourage you to read the first chapter of James, especially verses 14 and 15. These verses sum up the gist of this comment.
-bliss
@trulytaken@xanga - yeah, the paragraph following my name are my thoughts that I didn't bother saying 'cause I'm a tad tired of writing it over and over... that said, yeah, there is something to be said for being loving and not making life unnecessarily difficult for the dudes, which I think you covered as well.
edit: woohoo edit feature FTW! yeah, so no pun intended at all on that last one, didn't notice 'till after I posted.
@Theophilus166@xanga - Your insights are correct, but you missed the point, I think. As a young woman, my friends and I were constantly barraged with the idea that if boys sinned in looking at us it was our fault. ( And I am talking about girls on two continents that were mostly missionary kids or very conservatively homeschooled, so trust me, none of us wore anything even remotely provocative.) We were told that how we dressed was directly responsible for the sins that young men around us might commit. This is not the same as being told to be considerate of men, as of course, a Christian woman would desire to be loving and considerate. Rather, it is a twising of the Word in order to demoralize young women and make them feel ashamed of their bodies.
This is not only demeaning and frustrating, but entirely unbiblical! We are responsible for no one's sins but our own. Even if I dress like a tramp, it is the man's fault for lusting if he takes that second look. My sin may be vanity or lewdness, but his sin is still not my fault.
As I said, I found this attitude all over the world in Christian circles. My youth pastor actually got tired of hearing girls being told this, and formed a support group for the young men where they had Job 31:1 as their mantra: "I have made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a woman." In this world, young men would have to walk around with their eyes shut to avoid seeing someone dressed provocatively. It takes real character no to look.
It seems amuch more rational and Biblical approach, to me, to change our focus from chastising young women, to strengthening young men. They have a hard battle in front of them, and we should encourage them to keep persevering, not blame the girls when the boys "stumble".
@HeartOfPandora@xanga - Because women suck at life. Period (HA GET IT?!).
Seriously though, in answer to this post, I prefer a woman who is wild, but won't whip out her tits to every bloke on the planet. I want a girl who can be both a brutal metal chick, while still being a girly girl. Smart, sexy, talented (in some form), and loyal to the bone (LAWLZ).
Women who dress like cheap hookers, well, deserve to be treated like one. It's all about how you present yourself. Either show yourself respect, or be prepared to suck in a LOT of disrespect.
@ellebohemienne@xanga - true enough but it was in reply to the post that said not all women are "foul temptresses seeking to make them stumble" when in fact this has often been true for thousands of years, just look at the previous president for another example.
I think men should have a strong enough character to not stumble if I'm at the beach in my bikini, but I also think that as a woman, I have a responsibility to shield my body. I shouldn't be dressing in short skirts and blaming it on the guy if he stumbles. Everyone has a responsibility to the other gender.