What we really have got to do is stop believing that the same thing has the same meaning in every different context.

I don't believe that god makes people sick, I believe that viruses and germs do. 

I don't think God uses sickness to "discipline" us. Sickness doesn't really strengthen our character much... at least not mine. I just lay in bed while the hubby fusses over me and brings me soup and gatorade and hot packs and painkillers. Of course, I've never been terminally ill, so I guess my strength has never truly been tested when it comes to sickness.

Personally, I believe that sickness and disease are a biproduct of living in a fallen world.

I agree that sickness, disease, and pain of all kinds are a result of living in a fallen world...and that's it.  That God would cause a person to have cancer to punish them...?!  What a horrible thing to say! 

I don't believe God uses illness as a punishment. I believe God uses bad situations for his glory. What a terrible God would we serve, who gives hundreds and thousands of people illnesses every day? I would not be able to love God if I thought that was what he did. Yes, God can chastise us and rebuke us, but I don';t believe God gives us cancer or other illnesses because of a sin. God is in the business of forgiving sin remember?

I do not believe He brings sickness to dicipline us.  I believe that he does allow it to mature us, teach us and draw us closer to himself. (See the book of Job.  Satan had to ask permission to inflict suffering onto Job.  It was Satan who did it, God who allowed it.  But there was a stipulation... Satan was not allowed to take his life.  I'd like to believe it is the same now.)

That being said, I also believe the Bible when it says that the wages of sin is death.  I do not believe that in all cases death as a result of a disease like cancer for example is used as a punnishment (though my pastor has seen examples where, though he's said he can't be 100% sure, it certainly seemed to be) ... but that we live in a fallen world with sin, disease, sickness and death... which was not  His original design... and our fault: the wages of sin, indeed.

@SWAurora@xanga - (this is said in an even voice, and with no mallice) Yes, he is in that business, but He is also perfectly just, and cannot, and will not go against His word.  He must dicipline us, and who are we to say how and when He does it?  We must pay the price for our sin.  How we react during whatever befalls us is what brings the glory back to Him.  Any miracles are, of course, to bring the Glory back.  Sometimes, our death will bring Him the glory, as we are perfectly healed, and hopefully, we walked our path with dignity and grace, showing others that He is our comfort and guide, and that no matter what, Your will be done, Lord.

Punishment is different than discipline. The scripture tells us that His children definitely are disciplined in this life. On the other hand, you can't look at every illness as discipline. Jesus told his disciples that when they asked whose sin made a man blind.

Some verses about discipline:
“ 'My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.' ...For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but
later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have
been trained by it." from Hebrews 12 and "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge..." from Proverbs 12

||||||  lynard

Our trials come from sin, flesh and the devil, right?  This is kind of like a conversation about possession and whether or not some awful thing or temptation is only and purely satanic/demonic in origin.
I believe that usually it's some combination of the above three when we sin, have sickness, whatever.  I don't see God mentioned in those three. ;)  satan can use sin, he can use our flesh or we can just get sick or just sin from our sinful old nature.  And there are sometimes physical consequences for sin as well - those could be seen as punishment, but it's just consequences. :)  I don't think God will "cause" sickness or sinfulness in our life to "punish" us, but I do believe that He can and will use things like sickness and sin and spiritual battles to draw us into a closer relationship with Him and learn to rely on Him more fully. 
My two cents...

@Pickwick12@xanga - i think God does punish... i know this is OT... but it was God who sent Israel into exile as punishment for their blatant disregard for God's Laws and statutes... and God used the Babylonians as the tool for the punishment...

@Andrea_TheNerd@xanga - i think there is a difference in the understanding that punishment apart from grace is not the same as discipline under grace... if we as a Christian sin, though we are still under the Cross of Christ, God the Father has every right to discipline our shortcomings as children under the holy and loving hand of our Heavenly father... it doesn't nullify the cross or make the cross moot, it amplifies the notion of God being Father more than it does nullify the cross...

You cannot give credit to God for the good things in life without also giving him responsibility over the bad.  God is not sovereign unless he is somehow responsible for the suffering and pain and even sin that is inflicted on the world; not that God causes people to sin, but he most certainly permits it (which ultimately holds him responsible).

The question is less about whether you think God allows these things as it is about whether God is actually good.  I think that's the real difficult struggling point; otherwise, we are left to believe that God wrestles with Satan, sin, and suffering as an equal rather than as a superior.

The next question is that WHEN God inflicts suffering, is it necessarily always to punish for sin?  The biblical evidence is murky, but implies that it's not always the case.  Before Jesus healed a man born blind, his disciples asked, "Who sinned, this man or his parents that he was born blind?" to which Jesus replied, "Neither, but this was done so that you may see the glory of God."  But Jesus instructed the lame man by the fountain, "Stop sinning or else something worse may happen to you" (though this doesn't necessarily mean his initial deformity was caused by sin).  Hosea 6:1 says, "Come, let us return to the LORD. He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds."  Paul writes about how trials and tribulations refine us as gold in the fire.

Suffering is a very complex and a cryptic thing throughout scripture, so we would be wise to avoid blanket characterizations about God's intent behind things that happen to us.. and I think it is rarely (if ever) our place to pronounce these things about other people.  All we know for certain is that every occasion for suffering can be used for transformation and "discipline", and we would do well to ask God what he wants us to do now that we have been torn to pieces. 

He most definitely does not.

John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I
am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more
abundantly."

God doesn't really "need" to discipline us becasue we do a much better job of screwing our own lives over. Sickness of the body deals with flesh; we counteract flesh with spirit. So one thing ailments of the flesh does do, is it connects us more with our spiritual source.

It teaches us how 2 have peace when hell is breaking loose

It teaches us how to have faith and hold on to God during a storm

It STRENGTHENS our faith

especially when we're in a sickness for the long haul- it produces patience

Either way, I think with some diseases- we choose them...sometimes

If you don't want AIDS stop screwing around

If you don't want kidney failure- drink water

But who am I, just a young girl with a lot 2 learn...