Tuesday, 22 July 2008
-
Opinion: Do Atheists Have Morals?
from TheTheologiansCafe
I have noticed some people pointing out that atheists have no basis for morality or doing good. This is sometimes brought up with the mentality that a Christian has a basis for doing good because he has the Bible to tell him to do good. He observes God's holy standard and then follows the path that God has laid before him.It is pointed out that an Atheist does not have that standard and has no God to stand over him and no fear of punishment from God.
A Bible reference that can be seen is in Romans 1:18-23 (NIV)
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles."
It would appear that this passage is referring to those who are godless. It appears that the text is saying they suppress the truth. It appears that the Bible is saying that they have suppressed truth and have instead engaged in wickedness.
What do you think - do atheists have a basis for being moral?
-
recommend
- recs 5
-
share
-
email
- sent 0
Related Posts
Post a Comment
- Back to revelife's Revelife Site!
- Note: your comment will appear in revelife's local time zone: GMT -05:00 (Eastern Standard - US, Canada)
Comments (447)
If they do have a basis for their morality then I don't see what it is unless they are borrowing from the Judeo-Christian sense of morality or are making it up on their own.
I guess they kind of just... make up their own morals? I don't know.
no.
They are with a system of government, they drive their morals from from whatever government they belong to. The majority of people have a basic understanding of what is wrong, even if they don't agree what is right.
All Atheists are people.
Nearly all people have morals.
Therefore, nearly all Atheists have morals.
The only Atheists that don't have morals are the ones who are officially crazy. But due to the morals of our government, the dangerously crazy people are contained.
Atheists have morals. It's just that they're relative and not absolute.
Well, first of all, we aren't suppressing truth that isn't presented with empirical evidence. The whole point of Christianity is that it requires great amounts of faith to believe in God at all. This means: THERE'S NOTHING TO SUPPRESS. I cannot stress that point enough.
As for whether atheists have morals, I invite you to examine Kohlberg's theory of moral development. Theists who derive their ethical code from God's divine command are stuck somewhere in the spectrum of stages 1-4. Atheists who have an ethical code are generally in stages 5 and 6, though there are atheists who have no specified and defined moral code, who are in one of the lower stages.
Personally, I have a strong understanding of ethical conduct, which I strive to achieve, and expect of others. Oh, and guess what? I'm an atheist! You can say I'm immoral by your standards, but never claim that I do not have a system of morality that is grounded in something real, verifiable, and objective. If anyone is more curious about the particulars of my ethical code, or its foundation, feel free to ask.
And besides, even within any particular sect of Christianity, there are disagreements on what God actually wants you to do. Generally, this is resolved within an individual either by what an authority figure tells him is right, or by his own personal "prayer," which may be answered by God or by some internal desire to act out a certain behavior without guilt (and there's no way to tell which one, short of God physically manifesting himself to more than one person, explaining what he really did mean).
ABSOLUTLY!! Most Pre-Christians (hey, they WILL come to know the Lord, right?) think of themselves as highly moral people. In fact most that I have known say things like "Maybe I (fill in the blank: drink, smoke, am unfaithful, do drugs, etc.) but at least I admit it and am not a hypocrite like all these Christians who claim they are so perfect." And you know what, they are RIGHT! We can be hypocrites and appear "perfect" when of course, none of us are.
@mrcolorful@xanga - How about all the great moral philosophers of history, many of which existed quite independently of Judeo-Christian values? How about the theories that Judeo-Christian-Islamic values were themselves based on the historical moral philosophies of ancient societies?
Personally, the basis for my moral philosophy is in the nature of self-awareness (as a species). Take a course in secular philosophy, then get back to me. You admit yourself an ignorance of secular ethics, but an ignorance of something is not proof that it doesn't exist.
@HanBan@xanga - Uh, evidence?
@The44thHour@xanga - I'm an anarchist. I do not believe in government, particularly not the one I had the misfortune to be born under. However, I also have a strong sense of ethics. Your belief of the origin of atheist ethics might be appropriate for some atheists, but certainly not for all.
And btw, your syllogism is completely flawed. Imagine a group of 100 people. A 10-person subset of that group consists of all the atheists in the group. "Nearly all" could mean that 85 of those 100 people have morals. However, those 15 immoral people? Ten of them could be atheists.
@lorili - I'm sorry you have such a poor personal experience with samples of "Pre-Christians." Let me assure you that there are plenty of us who do not behave in this manner. I, for one, believe I am highly ethical, and by the standards of my ethical code (which include not drinking, cheating, or doing drugs), I am. I do things (namely, premarital sex with my boyfriend and personal pride) that Christians would find immoral, but I think that the former is healthy and acceptable, and the latter is actually required to live a healthy life.
(For clarity: I believe premarital sex is healthy and acceptable in long-term, exclusive, monogamous, committed relationships. Other situations, like having a new boyfriend every week or one-night stands, are not ethical, and I do not practice them.)
@la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - Ah true, I didn't think about that...drat. Thanks for pointing that out!
(Oh I didn't mean to say that all Atheists got their morals from government, sorry bout that.)
@mrcolorful@xanga - I consider myself Agnostic (close enough) and I do think that I am influenced by my Catholic upbringing. At the same time though, since I believe the Bible was written by man, I also believe that those morals were created by man and the same principal applies to me. I have morals of my own that I follow, and I came to these after I had rejected the Bible, by observing the world and weighing each one in my mind. I do not steal, not because a commandment states that stealing is wrong, but because I empathize, and think of how this would affect other people. I do not kill because I could not live with myself knowing I had ended a life, something so precious. Yeah, they resemble some Christian morals,even some Buddhist morals, but they are my morals. There are some things as humans that are so basic that we know right away whether it is right or wrong.
@The44thHour@xanga - okay, thanks. We have no qualms, then. It's so easy to just add a "some" or even "most" in front of the word "atheists," and it would make your argument so much more powerful.
Please don't misunderstand me. I was using those as examples and maybe not fair ones. My experiences with atheists are not negative! I only meant that they will often point out their own personal shortcomings and reveal them openly, while expressing dislike of people who "put on" as if their lives were perfect. And again I say, they are correct! Too often Christians think they have to appear perfect and are more reluctant to admit their imperfections.
Sorry if I came off as judgmental.
@la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - Yeah, sometimes I don't think enough before hitting submit. :)
@lorili - No, not judgmental at all, and I didn't take offense to your comment. I was just expressing disappointment at the types of atheists you seem to have encountered in your life. Thanks for clarifying, though.
morals have little to do with believing in god and more to do with a basic, innate understanding of human life here on earth. moral people are moral because it's in society's best interest for them to be moral. if no one had a problem with killing other people, that wouldn't be too good for society, so most people, atheist or not, are moral out of self-preservation.
Yes they do, but only a relative basis and not an absolute basis if God does exist.
Buddhists are atheists. Buddhists clearly have morals. Therefore (at least some) atheists must have morals.
Wow. Seriously looking at some of the first responses I feel like I'd have to make the counter question of whether or not Christians are ignorant when it comes to non-Christians.
Religion is not required to have a moral center.
I just wrote a blog on this not too long ago on wordpress.
Check it out
Among the secular, the logical reasoning behind morality on a personal level, makes me laugh. It all falls apart when no one is looking. It is to everyones benefit, that all be moral, and all think you are moral. But to actuality be moral, when no one could ever know? No there is no good reason for it. Other than the fact that morality on a basic level, is ingrained, inherent to being human. Or written on the heart.
Honestly Christians should strongly believe that atheists basically have the same sense of morality that they do. That is what the bible says
C.S. Lewis in his book Mere Christianity talked a good deal about atheists and morals. He pointed out that all cultures have come up with similar sets of moral guidelines. No culture, or even individual, obeys their own sets of guidelines of course (Romans 3:23). But, in that all cultures have similar guidelines implies that they all got them from the same place. That of course being from their Creator. As Paul stated in Romans those who are atheist choose to deny what is made plain to them.
With that, and I know I'll upset people with this one, I would say that no one is truly atheist they only believe themselves to be because they have hardened themselves to God and deny what has been made plain to them.
I'll end this with what I believe to be a very relevant passage from Romans 2.
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
(Romans 2:14-16 ESV)
if they are true atheists, no. Morals come from a higher source. Most all do have ethics, and if not that, follow the rules of the law and society so that they can live comfortably.
I do think to some extent all people have morals, but only because God is real, and we do know right from wrong.
@Tom - right, I agree for sure. only if an atheist were correct could he actually have no morals. as it is, he does have morals, but not morals from atheism; rather, he has morals from the God he denies.
@AdveniatRegnumTuum@xanga - Such a quick reply. I figure my comment is going to upset some people, and I thought since the reply came so quick I was going to be told off. :)
Thanks for the agreement.
@trunthepaige@xanga - You beat me to the punch! You're right on though, atheist have the law written upon their hearts, and should therefore have similar a moral code as Christians.