Wednesday, 16 July 2008
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Are Christian Men Supposed to Take the Lead?
by mr pine
Lately it seems that a significant number of my Christian female friends are dating non-Christian guys. These are women that I looked up to and considered to be pretty strong in their faith. Now, this isn't going to be another entry about the pitfalls of being "unequally yoked" or whether it's right or not to date a non-Christian. I'm sure that topic has been beaten to death and people who feel one way or the other about it won't change their minds.I'm wondering if what I see is unique to me or if it's the same everywhere: what I've noticed, in general, is that when Christian men I know date or marry non-Christian women, in most cases (in the few that I know), the woman becomes a Christian. But usually when the Christian women I know date or marry non-Christian men, the man rarely becomes a Christian. I guess this could be used as evidence that men are pig-headed and stubborn, but I'm wondering if it's more than that.
I wonder if not only is there a mandate (haha, no pun intended) in the Bible that men be the spiritual leaders in their marriages, or if there is actually a spiritual tendency for Christian men to take the lead and Christian women to follow that lead. This is not to say that I think that Christian women are mindless zombies who just do whatever the guy says (believe me, in my experience, nothing could be further from the truth). But from talking to Christian women, I know that one of the top qualities they look for is that they are leaders.
So when a woman chooses someone who can't possibly lead them in a Christian relationship, I wonder what the repercussions will be.
I know that there's the eternal hope that someday they might become a Christian, but I think that is akin to randomly pulling a box out of the freezer at the store and hoping it's going to be your favorite flavor of ice cream... nevermind the freezer is in the seafood department... but I digress...
Granted, there are Christian men who need more than a lesson or two on what it really means to lead a Christian relationship, but at least there is an avenue.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but I think tendencies are a very powerful indicator.
I also see that it almost seems more "accepted" that Christian women can date non-Christian men than the other way around. Again, is it just in my circle? I can't think of a single guy I know who is a devout Christian who is dating a non-Christian woman, but I can think of several devout Christian women who are dating non-Christian men.
I don't know... maybe it's a Korean, parent-pleasing thing... that Korean parents generally care more that their children marry someone who is Korean than if they're Christian.
Which brings me to a funny story... I once asked my mom if she had a choice between me marrying a non-Christian Korean or a Christian non-Korean, which she'd prefer. There was a long pause... it was like that scene in "War Games" (very old movie) where the nuclear launch computer was locked up because it was forced to play tic-tac-toe with itself and couldn't find a way to win. After a few moments she said, "Yah! (a Korean exclamation of disdain) don't ask stupid questions! Why not both!"
Then she asked, "How about a nice game of chess..." (kidding, you won't get that reference if you haven't seen the movie...)
Do you think Christian men have a tendency to be the spiritual leader in a relationship? Are women attracted to that? Is it more acceptable for Christian women to date non-Christian men than the other way around?
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Comments (62)
Women are more likely to do things to please men (do you ACTUALLY wear those high heels for you, or for the look of your body?). Men are not.
That's just what I've seen, at least. :]
Personally, I know a married couple who's not exactly "normal" by religious standards. One is a devout Christian, one is Pagan.
God chose men to be spiritual leaders as they example Christ's leadership of His church. Women are to help and aid their husbands as partners. I think that it is natural for women to try to lead as it is part of their punishment for Eve's sin, along with very difficult childbirth. This tendency of women to want to lead is a result of her fall and unfortunately, a big reason women get so frustrated with letting their husbands lead and guide them.
As far as non Christian and Christian marriage? I lived under one and would never do it to my children. My parents had many difficulties and trials through it.
I don't know why men don't usually come to faith when married to believing wives...
number one trait i look for in a guy is that he can take leadership in the faith. why? because i admit to have fallen into the "pits" while dating a non-christian.
i've seen a few guys dating girls that were not christian - and those girls ended up coming to church with the guy. but i'll have to admit that the vast majority will be composed of ladies dating non-christian men instead of the other way around.
the man i supposed to be the spiritual leader of the entire family. that's biblical. (forgive me for not having a reference for you.)
a Christian woman should be attracted to a man with strong spiritual leadership. i wouldn't think of even dating someone who could not be my spiritual leader.
and i think that it's equally "socially unacceptable" for either a Christian man or woman to date a non Christian. but it could seem different from the perspective of either gender.
Out of personal experience, I dated about 10 men before I met my boyfriend. Each of them were not-Christian, and the longest one was only 4 months. I've been with my current boyfriend almost a year and a half.
Men were made to be the spiritual leaders and women were made to follow them and support them and be loved devotedly by their husbands. That's the hard truth of it for many very independent women [including my mother]. And I do think that is unacceptable for a Christian woman to marry a non-Christian man. God knew what He was doing when He put in the bible that it WAS NOT acceptable. It leads to chaos and very rarely happiness. Christianity is not a conforming religion, and in a marriage, you have to do a lot of conforming to stay alive and sane. Isn't it better if you can conform under the same relationship? Otherwise, in my opinion, I don't think that you are following God to the best of your ability.
Now, God I think can use someone inspite of an unequally yolked relationship to bring others to Christ or to reveal His glory. Certainly. God's going to work with or without your cooperation.
As for why does it seem more acceptable for Christian women to date non-Christians than Christian men to date non-Christian women, I think it's pretty simple. Once a guy finally wants to settle down, they want to bring a "good girl" "bring home to your parents" kind of girl. And normally, when you think of a Christian woman, you think "good girl". Now is this 100% right? Not at all. But that's just the worldly view.
I am sooooooooooo attracted to it. The thing that won me over on my first date with my husband was the fact that he had just come from teaching Wednesday night kiddy Sunday school, and after we watched our movie he pulled out his Bible.
Where is that man now? Why can't he trust in God anymore? Why did this have to happen after we got married? Why am I always the one bugging him to pray with me and read the Bible???
The only cases I have ever seen of a christian woman dating a non-christian man were all the same. The guy began pretending to be a christian for as long as they were dating and then as soon as it was over they went back to what they had been doing before as though nothing had ever happened. Well, actually that isn't true, there was one couple in high school where within a month the girl had quit attending church or anything else and began doing most of the things that the guy had been doing. In short, none of them had a positive impact in the end on the Christian woman.
As for the questions that were asked, in the community I am a part of both types unequally yoked relationships are accepted, I think that in a christian relationship it is the responsibility of both parties to help lead the other in their areas of weakness.
@droftreeology@xanga - Irish huh? Great! anyway, I agree. The man is to be the spiritual leader and actually (for those that believe in spiritual warfare) has much more authority than any other in the family.
If you study the Bible close enough... this was part of the downfall of humankind in the Garden. Eve became the leader and Adam the follower.... He was there and should have stopped her but allowed her to lead.
You commented that it was "socially acceptable".... that's quite true... but being socially acceptable does not make it acceptable in the eyes of God. I has been warned against in the Bible.
i think men should be the spiritual leaders... the reality though is apparently today, the passive man is the sexy man...
but more or less... men should be the spiritual leaders....
but my thoughts...
I believe men are to be the spiritual leaders in the relationship-for the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church (Eph. 5:23). Now I want you to realize the head of every man is Christ and the head of every woman is man (1 Cor 11:3). The spiritual leader of the church is Christ so these scripture "mandate" that in a biblical relationship the man leads.
Personally, I am attracted to a solid, Christian leader-not a boss, but a leader. I feel there's a distinct difference between the two. A boss orders people around and wants to meet his own needs in his own way. But a leader, a good leader, looks at the end goal and seeks to get there honoring and respecting every member of the "team" (so-to-speak).
Do I think Christian men have a tendency to be the leader in a relationship? No, unfortunately, I think many Christian men are afraid to take charge and truly lead with the gifts God has given them. Biblically, the man needs to lead and, in my opinion, from the beginning.
I believe in today's society woman are seen as stronger people in society than they were 30 years ago. Because of this, I think some woman want to lead in the relationship and for Christians, this means they date a weak Christian man (weak in faith) or a non-Christian. On another not, women should be careful dating those who are "unequally yoked" since that is in direct contrast from scripture.
I have been "teased" about my desire to date/marry a strong leader b/c as a friend put it "it's the 21st century! Woman have rights so take control." That friend thinks I am wierd because I don't want that control in the relationship. I am definitely much more traditional in my religious and family unit beliefs than most of my friends.
@pja2@xanga - yes, exactly! thank you for reinforcing my point! :D
My girlfriend is an amazing woman. Strong, dedicated, deeply devoted to God...and one of the most controlling women I know. That might sound suddenly backhanded, but here's why I put a bit of an emphasis on that last part...
For her, due to her past hurts, she is very scared to be hurt again. Who isn't? So her reaction is to take control. If the man won't step up, she is going to. And with 3 kids from her last marriage to love and care for, is it any wonder she takes such a strong-handed approach?
As a few have already mentioned, I do believe, it does go back to Adam and Eve. They were both their when Eve took the first bite. Eve gave in and Adam looked on. After the sin was complete, Eve get scared. Her husband, the leader and protector, didn't do his job. And Adam is so ashamed of his failure - any men afraid to fail? ...most of us should raise our hands - hides away in his heart. So begins the viscious circle. With no one to protect her, the woman takes the lead and the man, so ashamed, droops his heavy head and does nothing. The woman gets more afraid and now angry, so she yells and begs and pleads. The man feels emotionally beaten at his wife's critisms and "naggings". (Please note, by now I'm getting purposefully stereotypical to paint a general picture of what happens usually.) And worse and worse and worse it gets.
For a better, details depcition of this, read John Eldridge's book, "Wild at Heart", a book for men, but HIGHLY recommended for women, too!! And women, John's wife, Staci, also wrote you a book, "Captivating". I've not read the women's book yet, but my girlfriend has and it deeply spoke to her. I plan to read it a.s.a.p.
It is possible for the man to be the head of the home yet not be a Christian. But to lead a home spiritually, it is essential to know Jesus.
So, basically, it is a natural thing for a man to lead. If he does not, it could be due to a vast array of reasons...fear (that's me), shame (also me), lack of guidance (me again), oppression by his wife (not me...and my girl is quickly learning to let me be the leader of our dating relationship...and she's LOVING IT), or just doesn't care (definitely not me).
So here's the flip side:
The man protects his wife, romances her, cherrishes, loves her. All that good manly stuff. The woman, in turn, feeling safe and secure (it's AMAZING how much of a DIFFERENCE this will make to a woman!!!!) will breathe a sigh of physical and spiritual relief and will respect her husband, offering praises and encouragement. As a result, the man will feel empowered and will feel far more inclined to lead. Do you see how this cycle feeds itself? It's like a good tornado building speed.
Obviously, there are deeper details to all this. And both man and woman need to take charge of thier God-given roles and allow each other to do so. Husbands, listen to your wives. They offer sound counsel. In my case, my girfriend is far more sensitive to God's voice. I would be a fool not to listen to her. And wives, allow your men to lead. Offer your concerns but do not take control. Trust in him and he will guide and protect you. For me, I have a bit more wisdom/understanding of God's word, and thus I help Sharon understand the Spirit of the Bible. TOGETHER, we strengthen each other and share what God has given us.
Hope that helps you all! :D
Well, I have two friend's who parents are examples of your question.
1. My friend from school has a Christian dad and a Buddhist mom. However, she is agnostic. Yet, her dad never pressures her or her mom to become a Christian.
2. My other friend has a Catholic Christian dad and a Jewish mom (I know, weird match). However, the dad always tries to make him believe in Christ whereas the mom says that he can believe in whatever he wants. And usually, they get into small fights.
But I usually don't see men as the spiritual leaders. But I guess it really depends on their whole faith in their religion kinda of deal because it really doesn't have to do with just Christianity.
The Bible tells men to be the spiritual leaders of their families. As a Christian woman, I believe any other model of family is flatly wrong. There are a lot of Bible issues that may be up for debate about interpretation, but I don't believe this is one of them.
The one and only exception is if both the man and woman were non-Christians when they married and then the woman became a Christian. She shouldn't leave her husband, but she should exemplify Christ to him.
I'm no shrinking violet of a girl, but I believe it's built into most women (the ones who are meant to marry) to follow the lead of a GOOD man who treats us with respect and leads in the right direction.
I don't think it's a good idea for Christian men to date non-Christian women any more than it's a good idea for Christian girls to date non-Christian guys. In my church, neither one is considered a smart idea.
I think that deep down, women want to be taken care of. Even those ball-bashing power women. It's a deeply rooted need that God created in us. I think that deep down, men need to be the hero of somebody. Nothing bothers me more than a defeated, beat-down man paired with a power-hungry woman. She keeps him beat down by sending this message to him that she doesn't "need" him, like he's more of a support role in her life; he doesn't step up to the plate and be a man because that role is already filled in their marriage. Men need to be men, so we don't have to.
Unfortunately, the male role model now days has gone by the wayside. The men on sitcoms are wimpy underachievers married to superwomen. And they train their sons to be wimpy underachievers also. These bumbling idiots seems to be norm, and it's not biblical and not healthy.
I love that my man is the head of our household. I am very independent and head-strong, but he keeps me grounded. I love that I can rely on him to make the best decisions for our growing family and that although he isn't perfect, he's still the man of the house.
As for dating a Christian and a non-Christian dating...I don't think it's a good idea. It's because of the whole "equally yoked' thing. Two oxen yoked together need to be heading in the same direction to be successful. If one is focused on doing the job and the other just wants to go eat and they're working against each other, there is a struggle and the job isn't done well. In a marriage, coming together to glorify God is the foundation to success for Christians. Having to shift your focus on the other person who is a nonChristian will make the Christian struggle and the focus won't be on glorifying God.
Yes, men are supposed 2 b spiritual leaders. No, there is no way in 4 hells I will marry a non-christian man.
God ordained the man to be the spiritual leader - the head of the household and Christ to be the head of the man (1 Corinthians 11). We when deviate away from the structure that God intended we get into trouble. I'm not sayign that a relationship can not work if the man is not in Christ. I am saying that it is out of the will of God.
This is probably why we find more saved women with unsaved men. Because men of God that are in line with the Word of God want them and their household to serve the Lord.
@nita105 - Great points.
Quite frankly I think it's sad that the faithful Christian women are even thinking of dating non-Christian men. I mean what the heck is going through your mind? You girls are better than that. When I think about this, I think about what might develop. I think about the kids who don't have an opportunity to grow up in a strong Christian family. Instead they have two belief systems clashing in one household. Yes, this case is only provided that the non-Christian does not become Christian. But even if that person does end up becoming a Christian you're still not really sure if that's going to happen in the beginning of the relationship.
Next, I think Men are called to be spiritual leaders in the family. It says it pretty clearly in Ephesians 5:22-32. Also, men are not always natural leaders. Quite frankly I'm not a natural leader because I tend to be pretty introverted but I know I'm still called to initiate things and be the head of the pack when I need to. I think it is a hard thing for men to go through these days especially when we live in a culture of lazy men sitting on the couch watching football and playing video games.
I guess in some ways I don't blame women for making the choices they make in partners. Since there are a lot of guys out there I know need to work on their attitude towards relationships. I know because I tend to think I'm one of them. But I hope at least some of you think about the next generation. What more important? Being taken care of? or spiritual security? Keep in mind I think spiritual security will eventually satisfy the need in women to be taken care of because even the Christian man will learn how to be a leader.
I think really you have to go where God leads you. I know many women who have dated or even married non - Christian men and because of their character and Jesus the men turned their lives over to Him. And some of those men have turned their life over to Jesus and are pastors today. Go where God leads you but don't compromise the standards that God has laid out for you.
i'm an opinionated, self-sufficient, independent gal, but i'll always believe that men should be the spiritual leaders. and yes, i am definitely attracted to that more than most other qualities. and either way, i don't think it's (generally) a good idea to date non-christians, whether you're a girl or guy. although there have been a few rare situations where it's worked.
Maybe it's because I'm not religious and have never been in a relationship myself, but I don't understand why men should be the spiritual leader in relationships.
In fact, I don't even know why I'm commenting on this entry. I don't agree with anything anyone is saying. =/