Monday, 14 July 2008
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Cursing: Where should Christians draw the line?
by mr. oak
Wanted to followup on a post from before - I think Mr. Pine did a great job at talking about cursing by saying "It's not prohibitive. It's proactive. What it's saying is that you should be so busy blessing people with your words (and the Good News) that there's no room for the other stuff."I can't agree with this more - but at the same time, I have no idea how to actually do this. Since college, I've been working at cleaning up my language mostly because I was really challenged by a few verses I've read in the Bible. But while I don't partake in the usual 4 letter bad words like the F-bomb, the S Word (otherwise known as swords for 1000), Golf, and other delightful expressions...but then there are the gray words where I'm not really all too sure...
Like darn, dang, crap, etc....I say these things without thinking and it has never crossed my mind that they were bad...until....
I once emcee'ed a Christian conference. There were about 1,200 people at this conference and one of the announcements I had to make was to advise everyone not to hang out in the hallways in their respective hotels. So I got up there and blurted "Please keep your noise levels down when you're outside of your hotel rooms - we don't want to piss off anyone while we're here!"
I heard some collective gasps. Since when was "piss off" a bad word?? But apparently it was, and I was rebuked by a staff member to be careful... but couldn't help but to feel like there was no way I could've known. Nevertheless, I learned from this and am wary of saying it (granted I just did - doh!)
I don't want this to be legalistic - and my basic metric is that it's up to me in the end. All things are permissible but not all things are beneficial. I try to never use such words towards people - I think that's the worst way to use them. On the other hand, I even hesitate to write things like "wtf" on my posts - moreover when I accidently bang my toe, I pause to think about what to say in exclamation (currently, it's burgerfrickle.....don't ask.)
How about you - if you watch your language, where do you draw your line?
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Comments (71)
Pah, I think cursing shouldn't be such the big deal that it is. Words are just a random collection of sounds that we as human beings give meaning to. If I said "schnargle" it probably wouldn't mean a thing to you, but 100 years from now, saying it could be punishable by death because some one some where used it as a derogatory term, and people everywhere started doing it.
If I made a "turkey hand," put my thumb to my nose and wiggled my fingers at you, you'd just look at me funny, right? Back in the time of Shakespeare that was the equivalent to flipping the bird. It means nothing now, except a joke to the weirdos who know what it means. Spoken attacks are no different. Here today, the joke of tomorrow.
The f-bomb is only derogatory because we make it to be. That's all there is to it, and I will continue to swear like a sailor and mean nothing by it. :] Of course, I do know when to keep my tongue in check.
I try my best to keep a clean mouth... I admit there are times that I slip when I am really really angry about something. But even the smallest curse word is viewed the same as the f bomb in the eyes of our lord. Sin is sin. I remember that song "I love you lord" and that verse "take joy my King in what you hear; may it be a sweet sweet sound in your ear." That scared me away from cursing a lot as a kid...
I unintentionally curse in my mind, never out loud. If you're lucky, you'll only hear the first letter of the curse word I was about to say. Ex: Oh SHHHHHHH! I rarely, if ever, cuss, but I do say "OY!" a lot. xD
Cursing is not bad. It is culture that makes it look bad. The bible talks about a bad tongue. It is the context that which you use a word that makes something bad. Which makes cussing a gray area. So cussing can be bad depending on how the word is used in context.
Heres the catch:
Many will say cussing is bad period. To non-christians, they are on the outside looking in watching us christians. If they see us cursing, then we'll appear like hypocrites because in our culture, cussing is considered bad. But lots of non-christians, and christians, don't understand is that we should not live by our culture, we should live by what the bible teaches, not by what culture teaches.
ALTHOUGH
If cussing can decrease our chances of sharing Jesus with some one, then it is bad period. So to sum it all up, the bible says not to have a bad mouth. But that isn't only limited to cussing. It includes much more than cussing.
In general I try to watch my language, particularly in polite company (ie anything other than close friends or family - though I try not to cuss around them as well). But I think people do get a bit legalistic about the use of cuss words. In context it may be funny, or it may be an appropriate expression of rage or even fear. As a matter of fact, I swear (quite unconsciously) when I am afraid.
Once when I was on a rollercoaster, I threw back my head and screamed. I was later told that I had screamed a long string of obscenities.
To answer the question, I don't know lol.
@HeartOfPandora@xanga - good point!
My thoughts on this subject stem back from a very specific Sunday school moment-
Our teacher was speaking on this topic and noted how instead of "curse words" her family used vegetables, like "peas" and "carrots."
So instead of "HOLY S#$%!" they would say "Holy peas!"
I quietly raised my hand when she asked if we had any questions and asked, "But you're still using it because you're mad... doesn't that make it wrong, too?" She smiled nervously and told me to outside for five minutes.
I agree with Pandora. However, we also shouldn't do anything that causes another to stumble, and we need to avoid the appearance of evil. If you've got that friend that associates "darn" with crackheads, you probably don't say it around him... but that doesn't mean when you go to mend your socks that you're going to continue abstaining
It's really encouraging to hear your openness on such topics! I don't think you're being legalistic at all - examination of the scripture and obeying it is a crucial part of our lives
Ephesians 4:29 is a great verse to follow and obey.
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your
mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the
need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. (Eph 4:29)
The intentions is what I base it off. Am I using the word to insult someone? Am I using it in a way to harm? Then I consider it a bad word.
Like the rock opera !Hero, Intentions I hope that mine are for the good of man, if good or bad, who can say? I do the best I can.
Unfortunately, that is how I judge many things, but I really wish that song wasn't sung by Jude. Way to make my default philosophy sound like I plan to stab everyone in the back.
I figure kindness of heart and love and forgiveness > than me excitedly saying "Holy Crap, this new Foucault Kritik beats fuck all!"
@HeartOfPandora@xanga - I couldn't agree more.
I guess even if it is the world that goes by these standards of which are curse words or not, shouldn't we be less like the world?
I myself have struggled constantly with this for most of my life, probably mostly because my grandparents, cussed and my parents cussed sometimes too (in anger). However, I use the word crap and my mom still gets onto me about it, even though she says damn it(its not a bad word somehow.... but crap is...).
I like the verse used above Ephesians 4:29.
I also like this verse in Proverbs 18:21 "The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit."
Ephesians 5:4 "Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving."
I guess it all comes down to conviction, but yes, we don't want to become a stumbling block to someone else either!
I recently wondered about swear words and whether God thinks they're really such a big deal. The commandment translated is "don't misuse my name." Yet all the Christians I've been confronted with say that commandment includes all swearing. Does it really?
Personally, however, I don't swear, though I used to be quite foul-mouthed. Someone once said that to use swear-words is indicative of a lack of intelligence; such language seems to say that one can't think of any better way to express themselves. This, and the impression of an overall lack of decorum and class swearing creates, have retrained me. Even words such as "piss" make me raise my eyebrows in shock.
@OsuwarInuyasha@xanga - Thanks for the Biblical references; I was just wondering if God explicity told us not to use such language, and the Ephesians verse includes the newer language such as "piss;" as for darn, crap, poo-ey, mother- (minus the second half)...this makes me think.
@BrokenCrutch@xanga - Isn't that the crux of it? To learn to keep ourselves from getting angry in the first place? Excellent point. --Laura
I was brought up not to swear, so in general I don't. I do find myself checking myself on the rare occasion that I've been pushed to the end of my patience and rattled beyond endurance and near the point where I'm about to vent. At the end of the day I don't even think it's about being a Christian or Non-Christian...there just isn't any need for people to use say, the F word every, other word in their talk. To me it just seems evident that people are too ignorant to go out and learn other words to use and so lazily say the everyday curse words to lengthen their sentences. It's like when I'm watching movies and it's littered with swearing I usually give up and turn it off, because there really is no need to use so much swearing to make a simple point.
My friend says 'Oh fish' which just makes us all laugh, someone getting so vexed and then venting with 'Oh Fish!!' is quite amusing.
To answer the question- I draw the line at the 'F' word and it's many terms of use. Also the 'C' word, (heck I cringe when it appears in type for all of three or four seconds in the movie 'Atonement'.) Taking the 'Lords name in Vain', to coin a phrase, is a definite no no and I tend to send out dagger eyes to people who use either 'God' or 'JC' in my vacinity (when using them in swearing terms that is).
I often think of the phrase 'You kiss your mother with that mouth?' when someone decides to use a long stream of profanity's. You could always substitute it with "You pray to the Lord with that mouth?" Can I really feel good swearing like a trooper with people or indeed at people if I'm venting and them come to have a prayer and worship time and use the same mouth to give him praise?
@OsuwarInuyasha@xanga - You took the words right out of my mouth!
i dont think crap, darn, dang are bad... i usually say piss off... i draw the line at f-bombs, s-bombs. i transform those words too! s-bombs are shiz or shtuff, or shmoley. the f-bomb is replaced by fudge or the lighter words, like darn. =D but i dont really think piss off, or crap are all that bad. but thats just me.
I think James covers this best when he speaks of the concept of blessing and cursing flowing from the same spout. The difference I see, however, is that I believe blessing and cursing is meant there in a way that refers to how you address people. Things like directing curses towards a person... "Damn you," etc.
Then to consider, also, is the bible verse that says, "from the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks."
"There is both the power of life and death in the tongue."
I think it really relates to situations and people rather than exclamations. Christ was able to curse a tree and it died on spot. I don't think the problem lies in when we scream, "holy crap!" because we just hurt ourselves. It's when we direct our words towards someone else and speak negative things in their lives. In fact, I don't think it even relates so much to "cuss" words... as even telling someone that you hope something horrible happens to them... or one situation that I see at work a lot is when a patient is very very sick, some of the ICU nurses will speak death into their lives by saying, "This person's a goner." etc. I think that's a more dangerous game. I don't remember who says it in the bible, but there's the verse that speaks of not even talking about what you will do tomorrow because you don't even know! Only God knows what will happen tomorrow. So then why would someone say that someone else will die? Etc. It's better to leave it to God in that sort of thing... but that's a bit of a tangent.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
I really don't think it's a huge deal. I think the way in which you say something is the difference. If you are using curse words to degrade someone, it's not appropriate in any way shape or form.
Although, I do like many others...find myself exclaiming when I stub my toe.. =)
One should only speak words of edification and words that build people up and glorify God. Words that do not glorify God glorify Satan and that is offensive to God. It's the heart that matters. No one word is especially sinful, however, the attitude and intention and thought that are exhibited that cause a specific word to glorify God or worship Satan.
This is also self directed at me. I'm not preaching at ya'll, it hurts me too to realize that truth. Ouch.
@HeartOfPandora@xanga - You win the trophy for best comment here. Very well said, and very good points!
Wow what a great subject for me. I was raised in a non-Christian home. My father (God rest his soul) became a Christian very late in life. He always meant well, but he cursed A-LOT (he was a Marine you know). So I developed the habit of cursing as a teenager. The thing is though. Society norms dictated that out of simple politeness we should be careful what we say in mixed company. I mean, you never heard Dad or me cursing in front of Grandma if you know what I mean.
Anyway, I became a Christian in my mid 20's and tried to clean up my language. I made some good headway, but the issue did not crystallize for me until had children of my own. I have to tell you, the first time you hear the word b*%#@ or sh%! come from you three or four year old, it is shocking!
When I am out with my kids in public and I hear others using foul language it bothers me. Don't me wrong, it is not as though I get deeply offended, I do not take myself that seriously, I just want to be sure my kids use to learn words that edify.
The facts are that words are powerful and we need to be careful to use language that builds up and does not tear down. If foul language is going to build a barrier or wall between you and others in your life, then it makes sense to try and tame the tongue.
Paul writes in 1 Cor 10:23-24 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me,but not all things edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.
Also - Psalms has much to say about being careful with the tongue as well. Psalm 10:7 describing the wicked man says, 'His mouth is full of curses and lies and threats;
trouble and evil are under his tongue.'
There are other scriptures as well, so I won't belabor that. I do believe though that the boundaries set by society are being eroded. Don't get me wrong. Tearing down some walls is good; like those that alienate or discriminate. But this is one barrier I think we should leave intact.
I am still working on it though. Thanks for the subject!
I adjust my language around the people I'm with. With my family, I know they would frown upon even the mildest, so I tend to restrain that. With my friends, it doesn't matter so much.
But I agree that intent is a lot of it. Which is more of an offense?
*to a depressed friend* "You are a damn good person."*to a depressed friend* "I hate you."
So it's not so much the words we use as what we say, in my opinion. That said, I tend to respect the wishes of those around me.
@pmiller683@xanga - Thank you for your excellent comment. I don't think I can add anything to what you have said. I'm just so thankful that you are a real Christian and that you have such a wonderful sense of responsibility with regard to the words that come out of your mouth, especially in front of your children. They are blessed to have you as their parent!
David