Monday, 14 July 2008

  • Church an Illegal Immigrant's Safe House?

    miss dandelionby mrs. dandelion

    churchimmigrants  

    I just read a NY Times article about how a church in Iowa became a sanctuary:

    On the morning of May 12, federal immigration agents raided the Agriprocessors factory, arresting nearly 400 workers, most of them men, for being in the United States illegally. Within minutes of the raid, with surveillance helicopters buzzing above the leafy streets, the wives and children of Mexican and Guatemalan families began trickling into St. Bridget’s church, the safest place they knew. 

    I did some more reading, including this riveting first-hand account that recounts that:

    Several families had taken refuge at St. Bridget’s Catholic Church, terrified, sleeping on pews and refusing to leave for days. Volunteers from the community served food and organized activities for the children.

    What do you think about churches harboring illegal immigrants?

Comments (44)

  • beeshmonkey8@xanga

    Should churches harbor other perpetrators of illegal actions which are not spoken against in the Bible?

    If a Meth lab was raided and the people ran into a church, would it be ok for the church and community to harbor them?

    If I am not mistaken the law is the law and Christians are commanded to respect the laws of the country.  In fact Peter says that GOD HAS PUT THEM OVER YOU!  There are no 'ifs' 'ands'  or 'buts' about it.  If the church wants to minister to those from other countries they are more than welcome to raise up missionaries who will go to them.

  • UR_MUSE@xanga

    Those people entered this country to steal our livelihoods and undermine our way of life. The illegals should be sent back and if the church harbors them, then the church and it officials should be held to account because what they are facilitating is nothing less than an invasion of this country.

  • Giskard_1@xanga

    Perhaps the best way to provide these people a better way of life is to help foster a better way of life in their own country. Maybe we should have sent some of our companies to Mexico to help their economy instead of sending it over to China. Mexico is our neighbor after all and the starting point for many illegals.


    I can't believe there are no resources we could be trading for. They need a reason to stay where they are. If their being oppressed we need to send a message to their government that we will no longer send financial support if they continue along that path.


    As for the church in this story...well they can't hold those people forever. I'm not familiar with the Catholic churches standing on the laws of their resident country, but I am sure they must abide by the rules like anyone else.

  • SwordAndSacrifice@xanga

    You know what . . . the more I read the post and the comments, the clearer it becomes that we're not discussing our faith. We're discussing U.S. immigration policy.


    If we all believed that America was a sovreign nation just like every other country and had a right to protect her borders, then we wouldn't even wonder whether these churches had acted rightly or wrongly. They would clearly be wrong.


    But because we have arbitrarily determined that America has somehow sinned in her act of passing laws to keep unauthorized foreign nationals out, we think we should be able to rationalize the criminal acts of a few Christians.


    Whatever.

  • OstentatiousEloquence@xanga

    Churches, just like any other institution, should follow the goddamn laws. This has been a problem in schools as well, which is even more infuriating because they harbor our tax money.

    That's what I think.

  • chozen86

    We must be careful of detached political/legal/moral/theological debates over issues involving real people. Please note that the churches were "harboring" primarily the families of the some 400 male illegal immigrants that were arrested. I personally saw the Iowan church's actions as a beautiful instance of pure and undefiled religion, as revealed in James 1:27:

    "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble,

    and

    to keep oneself unspotted from the world"

    I encourage you to think on that verse, and the many other instances in the scriptures that reveal God's heart for the poor, fatherless, and widows, and ask yourselves what Jesus would do in that situation.

    Better yet, ask yourselves what Jesus would have you do with the poor and needy (this includes many illegal immigrants!!) where you live. :)

    Personally, I struggle more with how to best serve the homeless in my community. I understand that it is a thorny issue (e.g., some people are enabled to remain homeless, some use $$ for drugs/alcohol, etc.), but.. I can't shake the feeling that the people of God should be the most compassionate and most engaged in serving the needy. After all, doesn't God give grace to all of us all day, every day, undeserving as we are?

  • suchasoftersin@xanga

    if they are here illegally...they are here illegally. churches should minister to, love, and care for these immigrants, no question. but offering them "protection" and sanctuary when they have broken a law...that isn't something i think any church should be putting its feet into.


    and i would say the same about child molestation, or abuse of any kind, as well. the church doesn't answer to the government, but it does have a responsibility to work as much as possible with the ruling authorities of this world.

  • nikedefeated@xanga

    I am absolutely against illegal immigration. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, come on over! I'll make you dinner.

    the church are people...not buildings. I do believe that the church should offer help (food, care, etc.) to anyone in need, regardless of their legal standing, but the church should not break laws and harbor or hide them. 
  • SwordAndSacrifice@xanga

    @chozen86 - I think Jesus would have fed them, clothed them, then told them to return to their homes.


    And I think your use of the verse from James is faulty because we are not dealing with people who are "widows" or "orphans". These are people whose husbands and fathers knowingly violated the law, therefore making them and their families criminals.


    You're better off going with one of the apostle Paul's verses regarding remebering those imprisoned. Yet, even in those circumstances, Paul - himself a Roman citizen - never questioned the authority of the state to enforce its laws.

  • getreal64@xanga

    @Candy_and_Roses@xanga - I agree.  Kick them out of the church if they are criminals, but otherwise, let them stay.


  • chozen86

    With due respect, I don't believe that the widow/orphan of a criminal is any less of a widow or orphan. I see these families as effectively composed of widows and orphans because their fathers and husbands have been imprisoned (justly so) and are no longer able to care for them. After all, isn't that why widows and orphans need help - because the man in their lives is absent?

    I'm glad we agree that Jesus would have fed and clothed them. But would He have just told them to return to their homes, effectively sending them back to their respective countries without their primary breadwinners? These families have just been fractured by the crime of their fathers/husbands/sons, but does that revoke their basic human needs for food, shelter, compassion, and time to recuperate during a major life crisis?

  • chozen86

    I suppose much of the debate is over whether or not churches should "harbor" illegal immigrants.

    So let me clarify my position.

    I understand these churches' actions as compassion because I don't think they are harboring these people. I would say they are harboring these people and not doing what they can to help these people return to their homes if they stay on for the next few months, a year, maybe. That would be harboring, and that would be almost indisputable proof that these churches have no intention of sending these people back to their countries (or helping them gain legal status).

    My facts may be wrong. They may have been staying on in those churches with no intent to leave. Those churches may have no intention of sending these people on in due time. And if that is true, then I bow and humbly admit my error in reasoning.

  • PseudoEuphoric@xanga

    It's nice that they're being kind to them, providing them with shelter, food, and activities. But a criminal is a criminal, eventually they're going to have to suffer the consequences they brought to themselves. It's bad enough our country (including the government) patronizes them.

  • aznLegacy@xanga

    ...these are human beings.  criminals are still humans in God's eyes, and are no different and just as valuable and loved as non-criminals.  look at the bigger picture people!

  • Goodsheep@xanga

    @la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - do you mean how do I know if they are following God´s will?

  • la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga

    @Goodsheep@xanga - No, I mean how do you know that God will provide them a "legal" avenue to come here?

  • Goodsheep@xanga

    @la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - I really don´t know how God did it.   But, God always lead the people that really belong to him and trust Him.  My friends from Burma.  She was legally in the US, but not immigrant.   We prayed for her to immigrate to the US.   She entered with the immigration process, and got her green card legally.  There are more legal example from Venezuela and Argentina´s friends.  God is really listening to sincere prayers.  I remember each days of my friends´ cries to find safer country to stay. 

    Why there is so many issues about immigration and hindering people to stay legally in the US... Isn´t America made of immigrants?    What is the big issue on immigration?

  • la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga

    @Goodsheep@xanga - I think immigration should be totally permitted, personally.
    But I'm wondering how you know that God would never call someone to come to the US illegally.  Just because you have some examples doesn't prove the case for everyone.

  • Goodsheep@xanga

    @la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga -  Ah! I get what you mean.   If we have a way to do it legally wouldn´t it be right to do it legally.    Assume God allow to come illegally, this person will walk in the street like a thief afraid of being caught, no privileges for social security, no health care nor social assistance, no education.  I never heard God will ever wish or be pleased with His children living like a thief´, unless it will process their faith.    How can a righteous person have the purpose of living in a country illegally? 

    That´s how I can´t tell you if God has his calling by going illegal.

    Be clear that I totally agree with you that my friends example can´t speak to all the illegal immigrants.  I just believe we should respect authorities and do things legally,  it is the way to please God. 

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