Wednesday, 09 July 2008
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Atheist Soldier Sues the Army
Here's an article by CNN about Army Spc. Jeremy Hall who is suing the Army for "unconstitutional" discrimination. Hall was raised Baptist and was a Christian before he was deployed to Iraq and even packed his Bible to war, but now claims that he's an atheist.
"In March, Hall filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Defense and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, among others. In the suit, Hall claims his rights to religious freedom under the First Amendment were violated and suggests that the United States military has become a Christian organization."
He claims that being an atheist has costed him promotions in his military career and his life was threatened by other soldiers that he needed bodyguards to protect him.
I think this lawsuit is pretty bogus and it seems like Hall wants his fifteen minutes of fame. He's not seeking any compensation or any restitution for what happened. He only wants "the guarantee of religious freedom in military."
What do you guys think? Do you think the Army is guilty of discriminating against non-Christians?
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Comments (78)
It is getting to the place where the military isn't safe anymore.
Even as an athiest myself, I think Mr. Hall's actions are somewhat ridiculous. In in organization such as the millitary it is impossible to keep religion out of the ranks, due to the fact that many men and women use it as a source of inspiration through tougher times. Mr. Hall is simply seeking his 15 minutes of fame in order to make it seem like he is on some important quest for religious freedom. I think he will find most atheists such as myself, will not support him in his quest for fame.
Why is this an important story?
Looking for fame it seems to me....& the last I heard they were VERY strict on anyone evangelizing in any form or sect. So how could they be pro or anti,,,?
Well, just now getting out of the military, I'd say no. Many of the people I met were not devout Christians. In fact, devout Christians were rare. The military has chaplains for almost every major religion, even Wicca. At military graveyards, if the buried was an atheist, he or she gets an atom in place of a cross, star of David, etc.
What I hate the most about this story, is that this guy is making the military look bad (referencing Theologian) for his own selfishness.
There are a lot of Christians in the military. A large, large number of people who claim "patriotism" as a core value also claim Christianity. I'm not saying all of them do, but it seems to be a sizable majority. The same thing is happening the other way around in the Scientific community, with several Christians losing their jobs for trying to find scientific evidence, or interpretations of existing evidence, that support Creationism. I would imagine that someone joining an organization full of those who are like minded and then changing his or her mind would be viewed as a sort of traitor by those people, so it comes as no surprise that he is heckled for his lack of religious belief.
There was a movie a while back where an atheist was told she couldn't go on a rocket destined to find extra-terrestrial life because some 98% of the world believed in a deity of some kind or another. I honestly only saw a 5 minute clip of it in a philosophy class, but for some reason I was reminded of that clip while reading this. It seems to me that it WOULD be difficult to lead a platoon of troops in to battle if they all believe one way and you believe another... but I don't think that should be the deciding factor, and although you can't do much to stop the harassment from other soldiers, I think this guy should have received his promotion, and his lawsuit is far from bogus if the things he quotes his superior as saying are true.
people seem to think atheists are immoral, crazy, or bitter and stupid.
its ridiculous, since thats what atheists think of christians, except they seem to have better reasons.
Most of his anecdotes sound more like particular bullying than systematic discrimination.
Though, being passed over for a promotion because of his godlessness sounds like a serious charge. Of course, it would be very very hard to substantiate the claim.
@JTHJTHJTH@xanga - I like and agree with that =)
My boyfriend is in the military, and yes, it really does seem that atheists are discriminated against. He's not vocal about his beliefs (in fact, I don't think anyone he knows from the military knows that he's an atheist), but he has told me about certain incidents.
Also, simply the fact that you can't put "none" or "atheist" on your army dogtags should be a clue that there isn't quite equal treatment.
I do think this guy is going rather extreme on it, but there is unconstitutional discrimination going on.
@shedinator@xanga - The movie is "Contact" with Jodie Foster. I highly recommend it.
Thanks for subscribing. It would be nice to know why you subscribed.
Does anybody else remember the "One nation Under God " part of the pledge of allegence? Our nation was founded on God. Why are we trying to take Him out of every possible situation. I think this man is defenitly looking for his 5 mins. of fame.
@la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - ah, I shall check it out.
@write_now0001@xanga - Revelife auto-subscribes to anyone who leaves footprints on the site, as do momaroo, datingish, hoodstars, and the other xanga subcommunities.
@tedder6@xanga - Did you know that "One nation, Under G-d" was not added to the pledge of allegiance until the 50s? And the Pledge itself was not written until 1892, long after our nation was founded( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance). Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration of Independence, which includes that whole "Endowed by their creator" schtick, was a deist. He believed that G-d set the universe in motion and hasn't done anything with it since. He also has a very famous re-interpretation of the Bible in which he completely removed anything to do with Divine intervention or miracle. No, not all the founding fathers were Deists, but the one who wrote a whole bunch of our initial documents was. There really is no legal document written by the founding fathers that refers to the Christian G-d, and they themselves are the ones that included the whole freedom of religion thing.
This man did not say there can't be Christians in the army, he said he doesn't want Christianity forced on him by the military of a country that claims to be religiously unbiased.
I don't think this guy is being ridiculous at all. If he feels he is being treated unfairly, I think he has a right to seek legal counsel, just like I think any Christian should do if he felt discriminated against for HIS spiritual beliefs. The army has always had a very macho, anti-gay, extremely patriotic culture, and it has always rebelled against people who don't hold "American" values--one of which being Christianity. I don't mean Christianity as a relationship with Jesus, but rather a culture of white, straight, anglo saxon protestantism. They have always been antagonistic of anyone and anything who doesn't fit that profile, and they always will be. It doesn't suprise me in the least that he feels discriminated against. And although this mans' values are different than my own (i'm a practicing catholic), I don't think he deserves to lose a promotion because of it.Just my 2 cents .
@la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - Contact : Also a book by Carl Sagan. =D
@tedder6@xanga - Our nation was founded on God. Why are we trying to take Him out of every possible situation.
Plymoth colony may have been founded on God-- you may also claim that of a handful of the original colonies. The United States, however, were not charted on Christianity or on religion in general.
The United States is a heterogeneous society.More than anything, the United States was founded with a nod towards this purality: The seperation of church and state. Our founding fathers, for various reasons, carved out secularism in the political sphere.
The United States was founded on the ideas of inclusion and tolerance, and not evangelicalism.
@shedinator@xanga - What more, Jefferson was instrumental in installing the wall of seperation between church and state. Along with Madison, Jefferson trailblazed for freedom from religion in the Virginia Statute on Religious Freedom.
Also, from his writings, we know that Jefferson did not believe that chaplains in the military should not be publicly funded.
As if the military isn't carrying heavy loads already that he has be a pain about his 'un'belief.
Suck it up, soldier.
i duno, i pretty much believe it. tho it is sad this kid has resorted to denouncing everything he believed in probably due to the war tragedies he experienced.. i think the saddest thing about war is that soldiers need to have strong faith in order to survive.. that might be why they would not promote him.. just my opinion
@StarvedArtist@xanga - amen to this
@huginn@xanga - Jefferson may have campaigned for freedom from religious influence on the state, but it's been pretty well established that the separation of Church and state was put in to place to protect the church, and therefore avoid forced religion/denomination as was the case in England and several other European countries. There were many things Jefferson fought for that were accepted because they made sense from both sides.
"U.S. Air Force veteran Michael Weinstein says the American military is
With God on Our Side: One Man's War Against an Evangelical Coup in America's Militarybeing undermined from within by fundamentalist Christians who are
coercing soldiers into their brand of faith. A Republican who worked
for President Ronald Reagan before becoming general counsel to Texas
billionaire and presidential candidate Ross Perot, Weinstein is
foremost a military man. His recent book,
, presents what he sees as a grave threat to the nation's security. [...]"
Found here: http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A158257
Spc. Hall may be doing this just to get attention - not being a telepath, I can't know his true intentions - but I am sure of this: if his claims are true, it's very, very disturbing. I really don't want my tax dollars going to pay for a Christian crusade.
@Made2sing4Jesus@xanga - Yes, the armed forces are strict on evangelizing - once somebody makes it public that evangelizing is going on. Remember the Air Force Academy football team? "I am a Christian first and last, I am a member of team Jesus Christ"? It wasn't until that drew national media attention that it stopped.
I dunno. The bullying I experienced as a Christian in public school was a whole lot worse than anything Mr. Hall describes in the article.
Not saying he doesn't have a right to complain, but that he doesn't seem to have all that much to complain about. I mean, I can hear more offensive remarks than that about my faith just by turning on the TV most days.